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[ASCENSION] Jump Range Changes

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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
#61 - 2016-10-11 13:26:54 UTC
Scorpio DK wrote:
I guess most here will disagree and can flame me all they want I could care less but I feel these changes are a step backwards

if the fatigue system is also reduced like most seem to want I can see a return to the old days where only massive blocks owned caps and smaller alliances never bothered to own or deploy caps cause they knew that hostiles could come from half way across the galaxy in 20 minutes to kill them if they even dared to undock

entire thing seems like its a step back to the old days, I had high hopes for Novembers expansion back at start of summer now I am wondering why I should bother anymore, if i am honest the entire thing looks completely half finished

if you are unsure on how to balance capitals properly just delete them from the game and refund the skill points instead of changing the rules from one extreme to the other every few years

this is my personal view and should not be taken as a representation from my corp or alliance viewpoint


This tbh. Down this road lies the old days of roaming blobs of capitals owning everything. As it stands a small increase to carriers and FAX jump range isn't a big deal but you know once CCP starts making changes like this they tend to snowball until things are out of control. It won't be too bad so long as CCP leaves jump fatigue alone and doesn't reduce it at all.
TuDDi
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2016-10-11 13:30:43 UTC
Congrats on listening to your customers for 1st time in 13 years.
The Economist
Logically Consistent
#63 - 2016-10-11 13:36:08 UTC
Attention

About damn time.
Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
Hookers N' Blow
#64 - 2016-10-11 13:42:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eye-Luv-Girls wDaddyIssues
- Some reduction in jump fatigue would be nice, doesnt have to be excessive.
- Increasing JB range to match capitals would be nice too.

- What about increasing range, and reducing fatigue when using JB's, this allows the projection of power and easier movement when within your own space, I think a few duders have mentioned that.
Oddsodz
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-10-11 14:04:19 UTC
I Must say. I am not impressed. Why Blops when you Can Rorq?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#66 - 2016-10-11 14:14:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
I think there should be a larger difference between caps and supers. Caps should be 8 and supercaps 6. I don't think 1LY is large enough to split the fleets in many situations.

Please don't wait another TWO YEARS to tweak again.

Edit: I've had a look at dotlan and the difference between 6 and 7 is actually surprisingly large in terms of number of systems.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Gremk
The Terrifying League Of Dog Fort
Deepwater Hooligans
#67 - 2016-10-11 14:20:53 UTC
Pretty reasonable change. As some have stated though, the multiple range issue is going to be somewhat of a PITA.

You'll currently have Supers/Titans at 6LY
Carriers/Dreads/Triage 7LY
Blops 8LY
JFs 10LY

That's just a PITA to remember and plan for on the first two... imo it'd make far more sense to just keep them at a uniformed jump range (either 6 or 7). Also, as mentioned you certainly should look into reducing the fatigue to the point that a max LY jump is no more than a current max jump.
Dirk MacGirk
Specter Syndicate
#68 - 2016-10-11 14:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk MacGirk
Range still seems a tad short at 7/6, but beggars can't be choosers, I guess. But...

Please simplify jump fatigue.

1. 5 minute jump drive cool down after a single jump generates 30 minutes of max fatigue.

2. Any jump with any fatigue then results in in a 10-minute cool down and resets the 30 minute fatigue (multi-jump penalty) clock.


Not to reopen the Phoebe debate, but the objective is to limit rapid force projection across vast ranges. The range limits and fixed cool downs of 5-10 minutes will achieve that goal without the unnecessary variations of the current fatigue system. If 5/10 minute cool downs are too little, then tweak them to fit. But there is just no need for what we have now in terms of fatigue.
coolkay
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#69 - 2016-10-11 14:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: coolkay
dumm? arsch offen? das sind gerade meine gedanken
wie so hat man es erst reduzier was soll der scheiß...
last es so wie es ist....

nimmt doch am besten wieder 11lj und den timer auch raus was soll der scheiß ey...
oh sry for german post
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#70 - 2016-10-11 14:51:50 UTC
Rola Lennt wrote:
Edriahn wrote:

Most importantly, Fattigue should be reduced a it, shouldn't it? Help us out here.


your CSM got us this change and now you ask for more? talking about cant get enough.

They got us 1LY and extra fatigue to match - Not much here to celebrate.

Only a Foolish FC is going to jump in unsupported capitals (especially in the era of "batfone for anything and everything").
So, Titans got 1 LY - Subcaps can only bridge as far as a titan can move them - Subcaps are required for ANY fight worth attending - So, capital ships got a 1 LY range increase.

Which interestingly enough works out, the average distance per jump will rise from 3.8 of 5LY to 4.5* of 7LY*
*including a titan for bridging subcaps.


-- - -- - -- - -- - -- - --
Funny, when Devs decide something is too powerful and nerf it - It is done in great swathes of "kill it good".

When it turns out they were actually wrong and decide to set things back on track - It is in such small increments as to not make much of a difference.

Lets just hope the next "incremental increase" isn't *light years* away

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#71 - 2016-10-11 14:55:12 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Funny, when Devs decide something is too powerful and nerf it - It is done in great swathes of "kill it good".

Ishtar would like to chat with you.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Rob Dalvik
Profiteering Privateers
#72 - 2016-10-11 14:57:49 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

They got us 1LY and extra fatigue to match - Not much here to celebrate.



Fatigue will be the same for a max jump as it is now.
Kate Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2016-10-11 15:30:22 UTC
As i understand, Lenny's Keepstar network was planned knowing this change before official news
Larodil
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2016-10-11 15:32:52 UTC
It's been quite a while since I've wanted to give CCP praise.. Jump Fatigue still needs to be reworked, but the longer ranges, mean less days for downtime jumps. Also, EVERY SINGLE JUMP PLANNER PROGRAMMER just gave you guys the proverbial middle finger.. LOL
Easthir Ravin
Easy Co.
#75 - 2016-10-11 15:35:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Easthir Ravin
To little to late?

Lets face it, Phoebe was one of the largest player evacuations since Incarna. It may look good on paper, and it may seem like your sticking it to "da'man", but in reality it did not bring people into the game and it crippled a large portion of the player base.

Capitals should be massive / powerful / and the most technologically advanced ships on the field. Sub-cap gangs should fear them if they show up. (They should also get as many points on them as possible until reinforcements arrive.) Anything that takes away from that is just wrong.

Also in a game that already absorbs time like a sponge, what developer or game designer in their right mind would even consider making it take longer. I realize this analogy may not fit exactly, however, imagine the outcry of tears we would hear if we told the miners of eve that because of the incredible bonuses that mining fleets get, CCP is going to double the base cycle time of all mining lasers and drones while simultaneously decreasing yield. It would suck. Well that would be the industrial equivalent to Phoebe.

IN THE IMORTAL WORDS OF SOCRATES:  " I drank WHAT?!"
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#76 - 2016-10-11 15:49:42 UTC
80 minutes of fatigue, good lord
Romulus XII
Blank-Space
Northern Coalition.
#77 - 2016-10-11 15:53:14 UTC
About time Cool.

Thank you CCP!


"Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate."
Hahahaha this made my day.

"Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable."
This
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#78 - 2016-10-11 15:53:52 UTC
I'm okay with this so long as the amount of jump fatigue you get continues to increase with range. Please do not lower fatigue at all.

Yes, it is terrible gameplay waiting out a fatigue timer, but it's also terrible gameplay having to watch for hostile Supercaps 15 LY away before you undock a Dreadnought. At least the fatigue slows down the arrival from far away a decent bit.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#79 - 2016-10-11 15:56:28 UTC
This still doesn't encourage industry and habitation of the far reaches of space as you can't haul\provide logistics in a carrier or dread.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#80 - 2016-10-11 15:56:38 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Based on the discussions we had internally and then with the CSM at the recent summit, we're looking at increasing the base jump range of combat capitals for the Ascension expansion.


Goals
  • Reintroduce a natural path for capital combat to escalate.
  • Differentiate the power projection of Capitals and Super-Capitals.
  • Allow alternative logistics and force projection paths into space that is currently very difficult to access.
  • Open up chokepoints and allow jump paths to be a little less predictable.


Changes
  • All Capitals (Carriers, Force Auxillaries, Dreadnoughts) have their base jump range increased to 3.5 (+1) light years (7 (+2) light years max skills)
  • All Super-Capitals (Supercarriers, Titans) have their base jump & bridge range increased to 3 (+0.5) light years (6 (+1) light years max skills)


We hope this change will alleviate some of the problems capital pilots are currently facing. This is only an incremental change, as we said at Fanfest we believe that the capital force projection system needs further work.


You could also just modify the map, as I have advocated for quite some time.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.