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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Ginger Naari
Doomheim
#1401 - 2016-09-28 07:58:45 UTC
Alotta Fagiina wrote:
So if we already have an active account, doe this mean other alts on same account cant use there skills they have trained for specific tasks?

Or does this only apply to completely unsubbed accounts?


It only applies to unsubbed accounts, any subbed account has 3 Omegas, unsubbed account equals 3 Alphas.
Alotta Fagiina
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1402 - 2016-09-28 08:38:44 UTC
Ok thanks thats good to know.
Sugar Smacks
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1403 - 2016-09-30 20:09:12 UTC
Welcome to constant suicide ganks of everyone.

Why not? This is good just for the LOLS, you don't need profit, seriously. People have this Impression "you could have trial accounts before", sure sure, but I couldn't have somewhat trained characters with an unlimited amount of time to search targets.

On top of that you can literally have so many If you lose enough reputation you just send off the belongings and drop the account.

Then on top of this they are mass welcoming in the ISK sellers.
You think ISK selling is a problem now? Get ready for a 50000x increase.

Every trade hub will now be 2 messages on scamming followed by 1 message of ISK selling.

CCP must have high expectations to stop these things, but I have yet to see any free to play game be successful at.

Try not to be too busy combating these things because at the same time everyone will be trying as many exploits as possible on these accounts since getting banned is a LOL when it comes to such things on free accounts.
If you are not banning people for masking their IP addresses you are truly in for a ride.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1404 - 2016-09-30 20:16:46 UTC
Sugar Smacks wrote:
Welcome to constant suicide ganks of everyone.

Why not? This is good just for the LOLS, you don't need profit, seriously. People have this Impression "you could have trial accounts before", sure sure, but I couldn't have somewhat trained characters with an unlimited amount of time to search targets.

On top of that you can literally have so many If you lose enough reputation you just send off the belongings and drop the account.

Then on top of this they are mass welcoming in the ISK sellers.
You think ISK selling is a problem now? Get ready for a 50000x increase.

Every trade hub will now be 2 messages on scamming followed by 1 message of ISK selling.

CCP must have high expectations to stop these things, but I have yet to see any free to play game be successful at.

Try not to be too busy combating these things because at the same time everyone will be trying as many exploits as possible on these accounts since getting banned is a LOL when it comes to such things on free accounts.
If you are not banning people for masking their IP addresses you are truly in for a ride.


Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1405 - 2016-09-30 20:24:16 UTC
Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person, so they aren't going to be significantly used for ganking, as the set up to avoid detection is likely to cost far more to maintain than actually paying for a few ganking accounts.
additionally isk selling in EVE is combated via Plex, and has been effectively for quite some time. Subscription only games without a plex equivalent have always been hit by gold sellers hard, the plex gives people a legal outlet for it and most people being risk averse don't gamble on avoiding detection when there is a legal means.
Autumn Equinox
Evil Young Flesh
#1406 - 2016-09-30 20:38:16 UTC
Please excuse me if this has been answered some ware else in this thread.

Dual Training accounts.
- Will dual training account holders be able to login (connect) twice from November ?

It seams unfair, if a free Alpha can login, but a paying account giving double the normal revenue to CCP cannot login twice on different characters while the dual training is active.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1407 - 2016-09-30 20:44:47 UTC
Autumn Equinox wrote:
Please excuse me if this has been answered some ware else in this thread.

Dual Training accounts.
- Will dual training account holders be able to login (connect) twice from November ?

It seams unfair, if a free Alpha can login, but a paying account giving double the normal revenue to CCP cannot login twice on different characters while the dual training is active.

No, you won't be able to. Arguments answered many times many places.
Deckel
Island Paradise
#1408 - 2016-10-01 05:46:52 UTC
What I would really appreciate with this alpha and omega clone states is to allow the free account to have some sort of access to Cynosural Field Generators.

I mean right now to be a JF pilot it is required to have two accounts cooperate. Hauling is an important industry but Eve is limiting the involvement of that activity to full time players that can dedicate the time to fund multiple accounts.

Yes there are some activities that need to be tied to corporation involvement, but JF hauling isn't one of them and so should not require two full paid accounts in order to use.

I do admit that there should be benefits to using the full account, however, such as more efficient modules, shorter wait time etc, but some sort of access should be given to the free account, even if it is in the form of some disposable structure that blows up after a single use.
Kaivarian Coste
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1409 - 2016-10-01 15:25:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#1410 - 2016-10-01 16:52:44 UTC
Kaivarian Coste wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.



The minutes were unclear. I don't think they are going to limit free accounts to one per person because that would mean your omega accounts would be wiped when you are no subscribed.

Do you mean only one free account logged in at a time?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1411 - 2016-10-01 16:58:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Kaivarian Coste wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Try reading the minutes, it sounds like CCP are going to be limiting them to 1 free account per person


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.



The minutes were unclear. I don't think they are going to limit free accounts to one per person because that would mean your omega accounts would be wiped when you are no subscribed.

Do you mean only one free account logged in at a time?


Probably the latter if they can figure that out...which is probably doable. This would put to rest most of the fears people have about alpha clones--i.e. ganking.

As for PI I would hope they make the command center skill necessary for not just plopping down and upgrading the command center to to keep it running/operational. That way if an account goes alpha it cannot continue to do PI.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1412 - 2016-10-01 21:40:20 UTC
Kaivarian Coste wrote:


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.

It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States.
Quote:
CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now.

As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts.
They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#1413 - 2016-10-02 11:55:43 UTC
Thank god for help solo play even just a little ita crazy that people have to pay for a second account just to play solo like having a scout alt for example. However its equally crazy that i have to pay an account subscription just to have a cyno alt. Yes thats right a plex a month just to jump my capital ship thats insane and im considering unsubbing my second account and not having a capital because its juts not value for money to be doing that.

So please please consider having the cyno skill added to the trainable skills in alpha clone. At the moment playing solo for people to be effective you need to buy a second a account and thats a big issue. And before people say join a corp yada yada well of course personally i am but like the stats say many people in corps i think ut was about 70% still play solo.

Again i dont see why i should pay for a second account to jump a capital about its just ridiculous of ccp to keep expecting players to.pay for that

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#1414 - 2016-10-02 12:44:14 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kaivarian Coste wrote:


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.

It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States.
Quote:
CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now.

As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts.
They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference.

I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers.

In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor.

Right now a ganker does his thing and docks up to wait out the timer - Post Alpha, he just logs off one and logs in another "free" account.
As many among the New Order and Code don't have to pay for the ships they use to gank, not having to pay for the characters is indeed likely to see a growth in the number of characters involved in ganking.


Simultaneous logins, is only a small part of the issue

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Wedgewood Simpson
Steward's Brotherhood
#1415 - 2016-10-02 16:09:45 UTC
All this worry around multiple gank accounts assumes there will be no implementation of "green safety only" in HS systems.

It's already been said, if I recall, that if this isn't there to start with, it's certainly an option to prevent exactly that happening.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1416 - 2016-10-02 20:43:54 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Kaivarian Coste wrote:


Where is this?

I like the idea of alpha clones. In the age of casual gaming, people don't want to "rent" a single game for $15 per month that they might play once a week. +1 to CCP.

It's not a direct quote but an inference from what they are saying. Why discuss detecting multiple clients if you have no plans to limit them in some way. Found under the CSM minutes of Clone States.
Quote:
CCP Rise then moved back to how Size Matters is planning to deal with simultaneous logins. CCP Cognac outlined that they would use a different method to detect multiple clients than they use now.

As Teckos said, it's likely just going to be on current logins, which assuming it's a limit of one alpha at a time, pretty much solves the ganking fears, since sure a dozen people can gank with alpha's, but that requires a dozen real people at least, not one guy multiboxing a bunch of free accounts.
They are also setting up control over the safety in case it turns out that ganking explodes through the roof. But not initially implementing it. Again some inference.

I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers.

In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor.

Right now a ganker does his thing and docks up to wait out the timer - Post Alpha, he just logs off one and logs in another "free" account.
As many among the New Order and Code don't have to pay for the ships they use to gank, not having to pay for the characters is indeed likely to see a growth in the number of characters involved in ganking.


Simultaneous logins, is only a small part of the issue


What a great way to rip off ganking groups. Make a bunch of free Alpha accounts, get some free ships, then transfer them over to your main, and take them to Jita and sell them at no cost.

Great idea!

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1417 - 2016-10-02 21:10:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

What a great way to rip off ganking groups. Make a bunch of free Alpha accounts, get some free ships, then transfer them over to your main, and take them to Jita and sell them at no cost.

Great idea!

that was sarcasm for sure but why the hell? Big smile
Assuming gankers are not dumb your trick with getting free ship and just selling it will work only once. Assuming all profit you can get (less than 1 million per ship + fit) i would think even doing PI will be more profitable Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1418 - 2016-10-02 21:21:21 UTC
Wedgewood Simpson wrote:
All this worry around multiple gank accounts assumes there will be no implementation of "green safety only" in HS systems.

If there were I'd take offense. Enough with the HS snowflakes already- a gang of free Thrashers camping FW or cheapass Caracals roaming Provi would be equally disruptive; but of course only HS would be except? Pffff!

Not to mention an Alpha account can't really learn anything valuable is he's locked to green except running level IIs and mining.

Let 'em kick the can. If that means I can haz free Thrasher to shoot at free Catalyst I'll take my chances ;-)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1419 - 2016-10-02 21:32:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Sgt Ocker wrote:

I think both you and Techos may want to have another look at your numbers.

In a 0.7 system; ONE meta fit Catalyst = ONE dead Retriever or Covetor.

Now work it out with alpha skills only. Most of the gankers doing this are far more skilled in the exact ganking skills than an alpha clone can be.

Also oh no, an alpha clone might be able to gank your barge? Why is this a problem? Even I who am normally on the anti ganker side don't want to change the number of players needed to gank, if anything I want to lower the number of players needed to gank. I just want to change the dynamic of ganking to a longer fight rather than a blink and it's over thing.

Alpha clones being able to gank is good, it means they are able to take part in an important part of EVE. It means they can fly ships in non gank PvP that feel like they are contributing real amounts of damage.
But the important thing is is that one player can't swoop in and kill your entire mining fleet including the orca & freighter with just alpha clones. To do that they need a lot of friends, and if they have that many friends prepared to help, good on them.
Josef Djugashvilis
#1420 - 2016-10-03 06:20:25 UTC
Ganking has a long and honorable history in Eve, but I am not convinced that some one who pays to play is going to think it is acceptable for some one who plays for free to be able to gank them.

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