These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Every year, there are less users playing, why??

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1761 - 2016-09-27 04:45:36 UTC  |  Edited by: March rabbit
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
So yea you go adapt as much you want i did too by unsubbing.
Adapting would require that you change the way you play, not playing at all is running away.

it's still adapting. Not the way YOU (and CCP) would like but it is.

For example: you came to cinema to watch something spaceship starwars related. And suddenly at some point spaceships turned to dogs and you find yourself watching some christmas film.
Now you could 'adapt': try to enjoy it or leave and get your enjoyment somewhere else.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1762 - 2016-09-27 09:28:38 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
So yea you go adapt as much you want i did too by unsubbing.
Adapting would require that you change the way you play, not playing at all is running away.

it's still adapting. Not the way YOU (and CCP) would like but it is.

For example: you came to cinema to watch something spaceship starwars related. And suddenly at some point spaceships turned to dogs and you find yourself watching some christmas film.
Now you could 'adapt': try to enjoy it or leave and get your enjoyment somewhere else.


Quitting is not adapting, it's quitting.

That said, the jump changes were needed.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1763 - 2016-09-27 09:56:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Keko Khaan wrote:
So yea you go adapt as much you want i did too by unsubbing.
Adapting would require that you change the way you play, not playing at all is running away.

it's still adapting. Not the way YOU (and CCP) would like but it is.

For example: you came to cinema to watch something spaceship starwars related. And suddenly at some point spaceships turned to dogs and you find yourself watching some christmas film.
Now you could 'adapt': try to enjoy it or leave and get your enjoyment somewhere else.


Quitting is not adapting, it's quitting.

It's semantics. You are talking from the game POV. Me - about POV of customer.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1764 - 2016-09-28 01:16:51 UTC
CCP abandon there strength and the want to trust there income so the made some radical change.

Player base is stable for now but only half the power the had. The will never get as many people before the drop.
Now the even made it more change. SP buying / ISK buying. So what`s the point of subscribe again? If you can wait out if there is a new ship sell your SP and buy new SP and invest in SP for that ship? There is no need to play just buy a plex and your done. No ship lost no danger. No risk. This is what eve is become.

And we are still going deeper in that hole. But atleast the numbers are stable. If the just invest in a diffrend area than this game can become more than just a click from a to b and press f1 to play game!.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1765 - 2016-09-28 03:10:30 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
CCP abandon there strength and the want to trust there income so the made some radical change.

Player base is stable for now but only half the power the had. The will never get as many people before the drop.
Now the even made it more change. SP buying / ISK buying. So what`s the point of subscribe again? If you can wait out if there is a new ship sell your SP and buy new SP and invest in SP for that ship? There is no need to play just buy a plex and your done. No ship lost no danger. No risk. This is what eve is become.

And we are still going deeper in that hole. But atleast the numbers are stable. If the just invest in a diffrend area than this game can become more than just a click from a to b and press f1 to play game!.


Not one coherent thought or sentence, whole post.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1766 - 2016-09-28 03:14:25 UTC
Morgan Zarkov wrote:
[quote=Yun Kuai]In my own personal opinion, I feel there are 4 main reaons why the player count is no longer at the 45k average and peaking in the 60k numbers about 5 years ago.

1) The biggest problem area is that in my almost 8 of years of playing, the game's core mechanics (read pve) are almost exactly the same as when I started. That means 8 years of grinding the same anoms, the same missions, the same mining, the same industry, the same incursions, etc.


I strongly agree with his first point. Save burner missions little has been done for pve in a long time. No matter how much you love the game, you can only grind the same anoms, missions for so long.


I know right?!? It's almost like they didn't intend for people to farm the same crappy PVE for years and years. It's ALMOST like, that's not the aspect of the game they intend to showcase at all! Shocked
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1767 - 2016-09-28 05:10:37 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Morgan Zarkov wrote:
[quote=Yun Kuai]In my own personal opinion, I feel there are 4 main reaons why the player count is no longer at the 45k average and peaking in the 60k numbers about 5 years ago.

1) The biggest problem area is that in my almost 8 of years of playing, the game's core mechanics (read pve) are almost exactly the same as when I started. That means 8 years of grinding the same anoms, the same missions, the same mining, the same industry, the same incursions, etc.


I strongly agree with his first point. Save burner missions little has been done for pve in a long time. No matter how much you love the game, you can only grind the same anoms, missions for so long.


I know right?!? It's almost like they didn't intend for people to farm the same crappy PVE for years and years. It's ALMOST like, that's not the aspect of the game they intend to showcase at all! Shocked

meh. I wouldn't go that far to say it's about the game. PVE is a game experience that works, and perhaps it's a bit much to expect it to keep a player entertained over a long period of time.

I think if you roll back expectations of what the game can do for amusement, it will seem fine. It's not a new concept to replay a game despite it being the same every time. You usually go into it realizing a video game won't challenge you in new and unexpected ways. It was only programmed to work one way and you learn it. Learning and adapting is a very basic human thing, it's going to happen.

If someone is playing a video game I hope their time is forfeit and they're looking for a very basic thing to do while passing the time. It's odd to me when people place so much burden on a game they pay $15 USD a month for. Over the number of hours some of us play, that's like a quarter per hour. What entertainment experience does anyone have that comes close to providing that much value.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#1768 - 2016-09-28 08:32:46 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
CCP abandon there strength and the want to trust there income so the made some radical change.

Player base is stable for now but only half the power the had. The will never get as many people before the drop.
Now the even made it more change. SP buying / ISK buying. So what`s the point of subscribe again? If you can wait out if there is a new ship sell your SP and buy new SP and invest in SP for that ship? There is no need to play just buy a plex and your done. No ship lost no danger. No risk. This is what eve is become.

And we are still going deeper in that hole. But atleast the numbers are stable. If the just invest in a diffrend area than this game can become more than just a click from a to b and press f1 to play game!.


every game i've ever played is based on go to A do whatever you're asked to do, proceed to B follow instructions in mission, press whatever key is needed to operate the game.

repeat process until it bores you stupid, take a break,, do it all over again.

every year a new post pops up regarding the future death of this game, every year they're wrong, but i'm sure one day they'll be right and it will end.

even a broken clock tells the time correctly twice a day.

I'd like to see the whole mission system revamped, it is very old now and could do with some love.

but do remember, all these missions in game to a new player are just amazing, so it's a vet issue not a new guy issue.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1769 - 2016-09-28 14:03:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Morgan Zarkov wrote:
No matter how much you love the game, you can only grind the same anoms, missions for so long.


This is obvioulsy not true at all. Look at dotlan, see where the npc kills are across EVE. CCP has tried new PVE content for years, starting withLvl 5 missions, FW missions, womrhole pve, incursions, burners, drifters, clone soldiers, epic arcs, pirate epic arcs etc etc.

Yet what are most PVE players doing? ANOMS and MISSIONS, most created before 2006. Most post 2006 PVE is underused, in some cases severely so. Why do people keep doing missions and anoms rather than the 'new fun stuff? Several reasons:

#1. Accessibility: Missions and anoms are easy to find and redoable. All the post 2006 PVE requires you to either go someplace you don't want to go or jump through hoops you don't want to jump through.

#2. Comfort: It's easy to get comfortable enough in a short time as a missions runner or anomaly farmer, where as it's eithee impossible with other PVE (yea, get comfortable as a wormhole ratter lol) or takes a long time to get there (burner blitzing and incursion running are two examples of things that take a lot of investment and skill time/money).

#2.5 Reliability. Anoms pay cash, missions pay a little cash but mostly LP that people know how to convert. Other forms of PVE either have weird restrictions (epic arcs once every 3-6 months only) or move around (incursions) or have to be hunted down (officer spawns, clone soldiers, wormholes) etc etc.

#3. (and this one is the big one, something that almost no one understands) Renew-ability. MOST post 2006 PVE pidgeon holes you into a very few ways to tackle it. Sure you can do lvl 5 missions in something other than a carrier, but it would be stupid to do so. in high sec incursions, you options are usually "battleship" or "logi". There are different ways to do different levels of wormholes, but at the end of the day, the safest/fastest option wins. You can tinker a bit with burner missions, but at the end of the day, the answer is usually Garmur or Gila.

With missions and anomalies you have lots of choices and thus can "renew" your experience when an old way gets boring.. You can do lvl 4s with Assault frigs for more challenge, you can blitz lvl 3s with Machs or ishtars or tengus, or you can do Anomalies with Smartbombs or even acual bombs from bombers (yes, i've used a bomber to bomb the spawns of forsake hubs while my mach was at zero Big smile)
. Some people carrier/super carrier rat, others of us stick with sub capitals (i prefer battleship sized ratting ships because of the MJD "get out of jail free card"). Lots of people afk anoms with drone ships, where as others use Attack Battlecruisers and stand off at range and plink away.

Anomalies and missions are GREAT if you like to tinker with fits and experiment with under used modules. I have an honest to Goodness Burst Jammer/Target lock breaker Ratting Rattlesnake that actually works lol. And because you have soooo many options to try new stuff, the staleness of the actual content in missions and anoms doesn't matter as much , at least for 'professional' EVE pve pilots.



Reasons vary for each individual, but again, there is a reason why most of us who pve ignore the new stuff and run the old stuff. People who clamor for "better PVE" don't really know what they are talking about.
Mr Fizz
Industrial Waste Removal Services
#1770 - 2016-09-28 17:35:09 UTC
Played Eve quite a lot at one time, about four years ago, maybe longer. I became saddened when the game gravitated to ‘spoiling your day’. Missions soon become boring in my opinion, and the newer missions that were introduced seemed only to serve as a ganking point for players hell bent on destroying your ship and having a laugh at your expense. I still contribute, and am still training a character, and that is sad because I have had characters and deleted them for whatever reason, but never got back the Credits for the lost training on the deleted character. And why should not I get back those credits, after all, it is the only thing you get to retain for your monthly subscription fee.
The game is unattractive; those besting you have often insane skill levels so the playing field is way too uneven.

Safe zones for non-pvp players have been eroded and the introduction of player owned stations etcetera meant that long term players have more opportunities to drain the resolve, resources and desire from newer players. Once you leave the training quests behind, the game is flat out boring. The market is the very best marketplace in any MMO I have come across, however, the ability to be cheated, scammed and otherwise robbed is way too prevalent and supported by the devs to ensure that fairness is stacked only to those long term players who have learned how to cheat and connive.
Manufacturing used to be a worthwhile event. Mine a bit, make things, sell them on the market was a gameplay style I enjoyed. Then came planetary games and the whole concept was spoiled. It was in effect a mini game that made no sense. Now I understand player owned stations can charge you for making planet based stuff so no fun there anymore. Unless you own the planet station I guess.

But, do I want to spend my time endlessly farming to buy another ship for some ass wipe to blow up for no reason? The Orca was once a great ship, it meant I could get my gear to market, but some people do not like that and now the Orca is a gankers delight. So why bother. I don’t anymore. Just pay to let my character earn for whatever reason once seemed important. Now, to play the game, laugh, do me a favour, it’s broke and the devs only seem to want to make things better for the lifetime wingers with billions of skill points and no personality. There is no respect in the game anymore, people seem to want to lie to you, cheat from you and use all the abuse you can imagine to make you feel uncomfortable, I admit then, the biggest inhibition to wanting to play this game is not the devs, it’s the other players and then the devs.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1771 - 2016-09-28 17:42:03 UTC
Mr Fizz wrote:
Played Eve quite a lot at one time, about four years ago, maybe longer. I became saddened when the game gravitated to ‘spoiling your day’.


It has always been that way.

http://eve-history.net/wiki/index.php/M0o_Corp

Quote:
m0o Corp, a.k.a. Masters of Ownage, was originally created by former players of a Counter-Strike clan by the same name. The corporation first became famous for its pirate operations in southern Lonetrek, resulting in unparalleled community and developer response. They are one of few corporations which can pride themselves in having forced CCP to change or add features to the game. Known mostly for their PVP prowess, in-your-face attitudes and infamous reputations, they are considered to be the original pirates and serial killers of EVE.

The success of m0o corp. can be attributed to many things. A combination of skill, innovation and knowledge created the most effective fighting unit in the game. Many accused them of exploiting game mechanics and using unfair tactics. These allogations have been continuously denied and explained by m0o pilots on many occasions. The original m0o never grew to more than about 15 members, with 10 about or so active at any given time.

Starting in June 2003, about one month after the release of EVE Online, m0o started heavy pirate operations in southern Lonetrek. With only a handful of ships, one of the biggest chokepoints in empire space, Mara, became almost completely closed off. Destroying over 200 ships on the first day, and thousands in the weeks to follow, the players of EVE were just beginning to see the havoc m0o would cause.

Many pilots and corporations would try to fight back and remove the threat. Most had one thing in common; failure.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1772 - 2016-09-28 17:47:58 UTC
Mr Fizz wrote:

Safe zones for non-pvp players have been eroded and the introduction of player owned stations etcetera meant that long term players have more opportunities to drain the resolve, resources and desire from newer players.


No. There is no "safe" only safer zones with HS being the safest (still with some variation).

Frankly, you seem to just not understand the fundamental nature of the game. I can, if I am willing to accept the repercussions, shoot you anywhere in game. If you do not like that, there is one solution and only one: quit.

And if anything, shooting players in HS has been repeatedly nerfed over the years. Used to be you could destroy CONCORD, I was reading about it over at the now defunct Battle Clinic forums. CONCORD response times have been reduced. Insurance for ganking has been removed. In regards to wardecs, the removal of the watchlist was probably a bad move too as it has made targeted wardecs pretty damn hard to do now.

Seems pretty clear we have very different views on the game we are playing...and you don't want to accept the realities that there is no "safe" space and I can shoot you in HS, LS, or NS provided I am willing to accept the consequences.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1773 - 2016-09-28 21:48:55 UTC
Mr Fizz wrote:
Played Eve quite a lot at one time, about four years ago, maybe longer. I became saddened when the game gravitated to ‘spoiling your day’. Missions soon become boring in my opinion, and the newer missions that were introduced seemed only to serve as a ganking point for players hell bent on destroying your ship and having a laugh at your expense. I still contribute, and am still training a character, and that is sad because I have had characters and deleted them for whatever reason, but never got back the Credits for the lost training on the deleted character. And why should not I get back those credits, after all, it is the only thing you get to retain for your monthly subscription fee.
The game is unattractive; those besting you have often insane skill levels so the playing field is way too uneven.

Safe zones for non-pvp players have been eroded and the introduction of player owned stations etcetera meant that long term players have more opportunities to drain the resolve, resources and desire from newer players. Once you leave the training quests behind, the game is flat out boring. The market is the very best marketplace in any MMO I have come across, however, the ability to be cheated, scammed and otherwise robbed is way too prevalent and supported by the devs to ensure that fairness is stacked only to those long term players who have learned how to cheat and connive.
Manufacturing used to be a worthwhile event. Mine a bit, make things, sell them on the market was a gameplay style I enjoyed. Then came planetary games and the whole concept was spoiled. It was in effect a mini game that made no sense. Now I understand player owned stations can charge you for making planet based stuff so no fun there anymore. Unless you own the planet station I guess.

But, do I want to spend my time endlessly farming to buy another ship for some ass wipe to blow up for no reason? The Orca was once a great ship, it meant I could get my gear to market, but some people do not like that and now the Orca is a gankers delight. So why bother. I don’t anymore. Just pay to let my character earn for whatever reason once seemed important. Now, to play the game, laugh, do me a favour, it’s broke and the devs only seem to want to make things better for the lifetime wingers with billions of skill points and no personality. There is no respect in the game anymore, people seem to want to lie to you, cheat from you and use all the abuse you can imagine to make you feel uncomfortable, I admit then, the biggest inhibition to wanting to play this game is not the devs, it’s the other players and then the devs.


So the game 'recently' gravitated to 'spoil your day'?

That's news to me, I'd have pegged that date as 2003. People can get mad at me all they want for telling this truth, but it's the truth: some people just aren't mentally or emotionally cut out for EVE, and that's ok,
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1774 - 2016-09-29 02:44:49 UTC
This thread can get to 100 pages, we just have to believe.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#1775 - 2016-09-29 12:29:13 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
This thread can get to 100 pages, we just have to believe.

Now that you've said something ISD will probably lock it about halfway through page 99...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Yogsoloth
Fliet Pizza Delivery
Of Essence
#1776 - 2016-09-29 17:37:59 UTC
It's really quite simple...

1) CCP has implemented a number of changes over the last several years that have not been received well by paying customers. People voiced their opinions and concerns and ultimately spoke with their wallets and canceled subscriptions. (not the vocal minority on these forums, that will undoubtedly disagree)

2) CCP has not been able to generate enough (any) excitement outside of the existing community to offset those losses.

Now they've doubled down by continuing to alienate large swaths of the existing playerbase in favor of chasing the elusive new player via F2P/ P2W.

Wait until the november patch and after all the new titles get released around the holidays. Login and script numbers will not be improving anytime soon. At least not back to 40 or 50 or yes even 60k+ logins that used to be the norm.

Without taking a side on whether or not changes were needed or were good or bad, I think we can all point to a multitude of changes that killed off the playerbase. Good or bad for gameplay OGB changes will be the next subscription killer enmasse.

Sad
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#1777 - 2016-09-29 17:42:40 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
I know right?!? It's almost like they didn't intend for people to farm the same crappy PVE for years and years. It's ALMOST like, that's not the aspect of the game they intend to showcase at all! Shocked


If only people could play in a sandbox the way they personally want to (and recommend changes to CCP based on what they enjoy), instead of only being allowed to play the way Galaxy Duck personally deems appropriate.

We can dream...we can dream.
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#1778 - 2016-09-29 18:42:14 UTC
Hey, nothing stopping you. Knock yourself out grinding those same missions, just don't expect a lot of sympathy from the rest of us or the devs.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#1779 - 2016-09-29 19:05:48 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
This thread can get to 100 pages, we just have to believe.


And yet nothing new will have been said, at all. Its the same sides having the same arguments in the same ways just like every other time this subject has come up.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#1780 - 2016-09-29 19:12:47 UTC
Galaxy Duck wrote:
Hey, nothing stopping you. Knock yourself out grinding those same missions, just don't expect a lot of sympathy from the rest of us or the devs.


Today I learned missions are the only PvE content out there. I'm virtually never in HS, and haven't done PvP in months. That being said, thank you for your kind words. The next time I feel like doing something in a sandbox, I will run it by you first to see if it is actually fun for me or not.