Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If we were not where we are now, I'd likely agree with this. But I'll add this, if you gank a guy with 8 billion worth of cargo and (on average) you are moving the 4 billion that dropped to a freighter, that freighter is now at risk of being ganked....if the other side were to actually....you know, gank.

Part of the problem is asymmetry in behavior. I believe that such asymmetry will be very hard to address via mechanics changes. Because no matter the changes to mechanics it seems to me the other side is unlikely to start ganking....just as they are unlikely to start playing prudently.

No, I think you really don't know.



That is what you think....

Since just about everyone is risk averse.

Seriously do you think you aren't risk averse? Bwahahahahahahahaha...gasp...bwahahahahaha.

Hello OP

Can you explain some more how risk/reward is out of wack if you sacrifice 30+ ships to CONCORD to kill a Freighter and then get the loot, yet if you pay 50mil for a wardec and don't lose any ships at all it is somehow no issue if you can just scoop the loot without anyone going suspect at all. Makes it sound a bit like the typical "one more nerf"-thread.

Anyway, +1 from me for two reasons:
- It's an AG idea and they are always great and have no issues at all. I see not way to abuse this, seriously
- We can finally move on with this never ending threads about fleet hangars and get some novel tears about mobile depos

Risk/reward is something which is balanced where resources/ISK is spawned into the game world. The NPC's, or the whole game mechanics of the space are balanced against the loot the NPCs or sites are dropping, etc. It is however not possible to balance this in a player driven activity. On the contrary, and this is a point people like you just don't get.. The more safe a carebear feels because more and more Highsec aggression mechanics get nerfed into oblivion the more confidently he will fill his anti-tanked freighter with even more stuff. Years ago freighters using billions of ISK where a rare occurrence while ganking was flourishing, no one in their right minds would stuff 20bil into a Freigher and hit the autopilot button. Today this is a common thing and Freighers got so fat they became a lucrative target again for big corporations/alliances. This will always balance itself.

The more secure the more people are needed and once the whales are fat enough they will start to die in numbers again.

The only thing you are doing is limiting the access to this fat whales to bigger organisations.



I would say the two activities are absolutely comparable. You state the reason for this nerf is the risk/reward for freighter ganking is out of wack. Yet if we compare it to wardecs where you can kill a ship with nothing than just a one time payment of 50mil ISK and a very limited group of players who can actually interfere with your activity it seams that ganking is a lot less in need of balancing in comparison.

I am not against wardecs and I totally don't want to nerf them on the contrary. I just want to display your hypocrisy and how you single out ganking for yet another nerf while the same "problem" you construct is even worse in your "business".

If you address the issue this way (risk/reward) we have to compare it with wardecs, everything else would make no sense at all.

And about the DST issue.. AG came with this idea before and believe me all the solutions so far have holes you don't want to put into this game. If you think what you get is a bunch of yellow ganker freighers you can shoot you don't know how this game works. However expect some yellow miner Orcas along the way. A mechanic which will make it possible to make someone else suspect will be used as such by people who care about game mechanics against the lazy carebears who will have no clue what just happened.

But as I said, +1 from me. I would really love if they implement one of this screwed up ideas just to show you what happens.

I really have no idea why you're talking about nerfing freighter ganking. This doesn't impair, resist, or prevent freighter ganking in any way whatsoever. This change doesn't make carebears any more or less safe because freighters and other targets of opportunity will still die.

I agree that you can't find real balance in a pvp activity, specifically in one that involves players that are generally MUCH more prepared than others and have superior knowledge of mechanics. I'm not proposing any change that gives players that are stupid or dumb enough to get ganked, power to change that result. This is purely about how there's something wrong with looting into a DST, circumventing crimewatch.

I also slightly disagree with your comments about how players take more risks with their cargo now since they feel safer. Yeah while some changes might make them feel safer, I think the majority of the ISK is coming from how making isk has been made easier and more accessable. Go back years ago and the amount of isk that the average players has currently would be ludicrous. So players that are ignorant of game mechanics or are lazy / bad load their stuff in freighters and haulers and die. I don't CCP has increased players confidence so much to the point where putting 20b in a freighter is a safe, good idea.



Ganking is a lot different than war decs because wars are limited to how much isk you have to spend on wars and how many wars you have. Ganks can effect anyone and everyone (unless you don't undock) and you don't even have to be profitable for it to happen. I don't have actual numbers, but I'm willing to bet that at least 90% of wars that are put in are not profitable in any way, and that's partially because of current game mechanics.

There are also ways for 3rd parties to get involved against you in the war through the assist system, where with ganking you can have a neutral machariel alt and bump for hours if you wanted to. I'm not saying that I'm against ganking. With this DST change, ganks will still happen just as much. All it's going to do is force all players to not be able to circumvent crimewatch and use a legitimate form of loot scooping.

I still believe that the key to preventing ganks starts with the player docked up in station. Freighters are capital class ships and should be supported as such. Bumping is an incredibly good tool, but is not foolproof. I do not fall into this carebear category that you are painting as an attempt to polarize me from any form of ganking or ganking community.

Gankers already go suspect in freighters if the cargo is too big for any conventional means, what are you talking about? Right so you're talking about putting loot into an Orca's fleet hangar and making him go suspect. Sure the easy solution to this is to keep the orca with a green safety, but you know just like I do that there will be idiots. If CCP wanted to protect Orcas against that then they would do something crazy like you can't interact with a fleet hangar while you're suspect. Wow, how quickly this turned around. How many tears do you suspect that would generate?

All I'm saying is that this isn't about nerfing ganking. Sure it might nerf gankers in the fact that they can no longer use a ****** throwaway alt to scoop billions of loot into a DST's fleet hangar.

If freighters use freight containers then this tactic won't work anyway. We already have a counter to this.

Doesn't matter if its getting used, point is its there already and super easy and cheap to do. That people choose not to use it is up to them. Frankly, why should this not be the responsibility of the haulers? Why should CCP yet again step in if haulers are not willing to do it themselves?

Thanks for pointing that out. Next time I haul contract packages around, I'll make sure to put them in giant freight containers.

Oh wait ... you can't. But of course you already knew that.

Thanks for reinforcing my point. People dont use them because they arent a necessety for hauling stuff around. People shouldnt be pressure into using them just so they can force gankers to go suspect in a freighter in order to secure loot. In your opinion wjat is the point of using these containers?