EVE General Discussion

Following is a quote from F&I subforum but I think it outlines important development question which is worth a thread on its own so it won't be lost by community attention spotlight.


I just want to know am I the only one who is really disappointed by such approach? Isn't this "fluid, ever-changing environment" is a synonym to the constant FOTM race and lack of complex balance vision what we had in EVE all the way since 2003? How can one reference an existing commercial product and utopia in the same sentence without implying that there is no way to create something even close to other people archivements? Shouldn't you always aim high? And balance doesn't mean there couldn't be any changes. Talking about after-mentioned SC2: it's supposed to be released in three parts so that's the same game sold three times in a row just because of changes supposed to shake the game environment.

There is no debate that changes are needed but the question is "new stuff for the sake of new stuff" or "changes to improve depth without ruling out old stuff". More choices at any given time vs constant shift of the focus from time to time.

Stagnation is to be avoided at all costs. The evolution of warfare is based on new discoveries, new goals and new tactics and sometimes new tactics based on discoveries and these goals.

If you take out this element, you get a boring spreadsheet gameplay with only a few fits that are optimal, we have that now in eve on occasion but the "chaotic" element makes it so that things stir up on occasion and new modules/skills/ships/bonuses or changing stats make that possible.

Evolution and change are fun and interesting, stagnation is death.

No news here. This is how EVE has been up to this point, with the only difference being that the balance updates were few and far between (we'll see if that changes). Looks to me like that statement is just an official admission that the current mechanics are too complex and that any real balance in unachievable. If there is a real effort to have regular balance updates this may be a good thing, and gives a chance to eventually coming up with a stable system, if such a thing is attainable at all.

I like the idea of making more modules instead of balancing others. If everything was balanced then there would be no point in deviating ships and fits. Right now we can change ships and fits and have equal ships while being absolutely different.

Disagree. Constant nerfing and buffing is the same as WoW, having to re-spec every patch and suddenly all your gear is worthless. Same thing here. Every patch will change the game which is terrible in a game where you have to wait for skills to finish in real-time.

It's just a cop out really. He's basically saying they don't know how to balance the game. If it was truly balanced it would not be stagnant at all, it would always be about player skill, not overpowered ships and modules.

Addition based on first replys: there is no debate that changes are needed but the question is "new stuff for the sake of new stuff" or "changes to improve depth without ruling out old stuff". More choices at any given time vs constant shift of the focus from time to time.

Change adds long term motivation for new players as they have new goals to train for from time to time just as it keeps the game interesting for higher SP players as they get to develop new fits, fleet concepts and tactics as soon as changes roll out.

To train for the 'best ship' and be stuck with that for the rest of the game would be terribly boring. However, I think it should be done without adding too much new stuff - rebalancing (not balancing by all means) existing stuff without forgetting about the races features every now and then achieves the same without cluttering the database with obsolete modules nobody uses anymore. And of course, all too blatant imbalances such as Minmatar/projectiles being OP or Gallente/Hybrids being broken for the last three years should be avoided.

/thread

This ethos as reported by the CCPer is the epitome of what Eve is about.

Don't stop CCP!

CCP have a good view towards balance and the quote of SoniClover appears to ask:


Do you want rock, paper, scissors? or want paper to become rock every now and again?


If new modules / stats are introduced you don't end up with a situation where intel in null-sec reports: "x ships of the following types: ......" which would result in: "ok we need x ships fit like this [linked fitting goes here]"


Sounds more utopian as I'm sure there are enough combat statistics out there in the community to have a valid rock paper scissors spreadsheet.

This is good. If done correctly, this is very good.

Magic: The Gathering is a fine example of such a system - it gets four card sets every year, constantly changing the game and altering the balance so you simply cannot use the same strategies year after year. It keeps things fresh.

If done correctly, constant small shifts and changes to things are better than the mythical "balance" that never happens anyway. It forces people to keep experimenting on fits and strategies and it prevents people from falling into a rut with one uber-doctrine (leaving most of the stuff available unused). Yes, it also means that you probably should cross train...

It also injects quite a bit of action in the markets and manufacturing as "market PvP" guys have to stay on top of any changes - or even predict them - and invest accordingly. Today's top selling PvP fit item might not be the same as it was six months ago. This is a good thing.

Still, the devil is in the details. Such a system requires constant tweaking and maintenance. If CCP, even for a moment, goes all :lolccp: on the subject and abandons it in pursuit of some other shiny thing, things could go south fast. I'm actually impressed they even suggest at doing this as it is a long-term commitment of at least a few guys that have to keep working on this constantly or it'll fall on it's face.