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There is a contingent in this discussion that are worried that the game will be perceived as Pay-to-Win by the new players coming in under the supposed Free-to-Play mode.

Their argument is that it is not really Free-to-Play, but more of an unlimited trial period. You can play as long as you want without opening your wallet, but there are hard constraints on what ships and skills you can use in game if you opt for this option. And to move beyond these limitations...get out the credit card.

There is some validity to what they are saying, but then again EVE is not like most other games that are Free-to-Play in that they lack the spontaneous order/emergence aspect that comes with EVE.

My example has been World of Tanks with is both Free-to-Play and Pay-to-Win also does not allow for much Spontaneous Order either. The matches are controlled by a Match Maker and there is a fixed number of players on each side. So things like spying, corp thefts, etc. are largely not an issue.

I foresee lots of Omega pilots with loads of Alpha alts (hate multiboxers) and also loads of mining alts simply stripping the belts.

I have seen quite a few games destroyed by similar marketing moves and have therefore decided to call it a day with this game as I don't want to watch this one dwindle whilst I am playing it.

This reminds me of how Runescape does their player system. Free players get limited skill and item access, members get unlimited. Perfectly fine because lets face it, for this game 14 days is nowhere near enough to really decide if you wanna commit to it.

I take that back i understand what you are saying making it worse as in some cases now people could just unsub there accounts as they could have as much fun with your version of max skilled alpha's as a full account.

The skill injected alpha could wreak havoc for people and still be seen as nothing more than a pay2win toon, doing nothing for the credibility of the game.

If the alpha is launched as is currently, it doesnt assist a current player anymore than a new player barring the actual players experience and skill. It cannot be accelerated with injectors - all training is equal, it has access to all the same ship classes and skill's barring race specific items. Its locked at the same skill points and never expires.

To claim that you would not recommend a game because it's freeplay mode can't do even one thing equally as good as your current toon of 225 mill skill points is ..... i would say joke but i don't even think that covers it really .

Also the Alpha from the devblog it doesnt matter if you start it in november or 6 months later there is always going to be a saturation point that if people want to keep an alpha at it's maxed state they all stay equal within a few months of creation, Yours are just like mini me's of eve there could be years of difference between them. The alpha's could create there own subculture

I was referring to a 75 mill version alpha wreaking havoc not a capped 5 mill, if someone wanted to waste 10 injectors doing that that's there look out i hadnt seen you could waste them on the CCP alpha, thats a shame still trying to squeeze the cash

"those assets" == SP you can train and sell.

Omega: SP gets accumulated and can be sold. Currently it gives free2play but even if it won't price will be heavily lowered.
Alpha: most possible no SP will accumulate (we are talking about old player here).

In both cases you don't get new SP but in Omega clone you can use your stuff while for Alpha you most possible will need to buy new 'limited' ship/fit.

Seriously: for old player Alpha is too limiting and inconvenient. Not sure if it will be used at all.

First I want to congratulate you for the new access to the game F2P and the two types of clones, but if possible to add a third type with a second skill que for capital ships and command links that work simultaneously with the subcapital que... so you can learn two types of skills at once one capital and one subcapital . And no i do not want to buy or to train a different character because i feel like that's not me, my character.

Bolded the parts just for you, where you are not at all talking about anything that is about how to fit ships.

So let me point out why I have no interest in keeping up the discussion.

1. You dodge any argument or question.
2. You are obviously biased against anyone posting on the forums.
3. You change your goalpost.
4. Instead of making reasonable counter arguments, you try to discredit the person making the arguments.
5. You don´t even know what you just posted yourself.

-> there is no point in keeping this up.

Busy Pilots are Happy Pilots.

Well yeah.

Thats exactly what making the Alpha clones into FW would do. otherwise you are relying on CCP to make events balanced around the superlow skilled and the 100+mil sp pilots, which as the people complaining about the Serpentis event will tell you, its no fun getting ninjaed by a demios or ishtar when you are flying a meta4 brutix. How are the Alphas going to compete with my t3d or t3c ?

Rather make them fight each other, make them food for the bigger fish, and make their ships replaceable so that they can continually group to fight the bigger fish. casuals arent going to want to farm for weeks in a venture to afford a cruiser. specially when they cant ever skill higher then a cruiser without paying.
and heres the important part of that.

They will never be able to skill high enough to be on equal footing anywhere with an omega.

Its also not like being in FW means they cant move to null, or wh, it does however mean that they arent free safe farming or ganking alts. since with FW status you can set their safeties to yellow and still give them the full experience of eve within fw.

o7 guys!

There is some ideas about alpha clones and other ideas for help beginners to enjoy eve :

• Create a new 2.0 security status space only avaible for "alpha" clones, omega who wants to enter will be nerfed to alpha except the "trainging time" for skills who will continue as usual, only effective skills will be limited. (about 20 systems) Alpha clones will be able to leave this space and go where they wants in EvE space, but they have their home, the 2.0 space where Wardec and suicide ganking will be impossible.


• Alpha will not be able to change their security status to prevent all form of suicide ganking, they will just be able to PVP in LS/NS/WH. Alpha clones will be gankable by omega as usual in regular space only (-1.0 to 1.0).


• Alpha wont be able to stay more than 24h in row outside of 2.0 space or High-Sec to limit the farm in lucrative places. After 24h they will respawn in 2.0 space, in this case any stuff not T1 on ship or in cargo will be stocked in the station where ship will be to prevent a new form of hauling. If the ship is in space, the stuff not T1 will be destroyed. If you get something in regular space, be sure to stock it in any station/citadel to not loose it by respawn.


• In 2.0 area will be 5 PVP systems but the PVP will not be Free, people who wants to PVP have 3 choice :
- 1v1 at moons
- 5v5 at planets
- 20v20 at suns
The players will be able to fight only through a match-meeting, if people come in fleet with 5, they only will be able to play against another pre-formed fleet of 5. The fight will be limited in time, if you WO out of the grid, you wont be able to get back into the fight.
The kills in thoses matchmeetings wont give a killmail but you will earn 1 point for 1 kill, with thoses points CCP will open a shop where they will give us acces to the chiness skins, thoses we ask since so long time... If you choose your oppenent, you won't earn any points. The chinese skinns won't be tradable, to make more people come pvp. The goal of this system, is to help people stop to be scared by PVP and learn that in eve when you loose a fight, your ship is destroyed. An important things is to take a part in a fleet, thigs you can't do in any tutorial or mission today. Thoses things must help new players to enjoy eve freely.


• Ships lost in PVP matchmeeting will be given back for free in the nearest station, only T1 frig/destro/cruise without modules, an alert will tell us that in regular fight you won't receive back your ship for free, but you can insure it to get a part of ISK back.


• Alpha won't be able to fit any mining ship outiside of 2.0 area to prevent abusive multi-account farming, the goal of thoses alpha status is to discover the game and not farm multi-box for veterans...


• There will be new "mini-games" in the 2.0 space and only there, like capture the flag with a frigate who will need to evade cruisers gun shoots, by flying well and using angular velocity, or signature tanking. The goal is to learn people to fly, actualy the missions not learn this aspect of the game.


• Alpha account will have a lifetime of 1 year, you will be able to increase it to 2 years maximum. After thoses 2 years the account will be blocked and you will have 1 year to activate it, if you don't, the account will be deleted to save the pool of nicknames for capsuleers. If you have upgrated your clone at last one time to omega rank, your account will be saved forever, and you will be able to play 2 years over the last omega status. This must prevent people who will use thoses accounts forever in alpha state, every 2 years they will need to upgrade it to omega.


• A list of "alpha" achievement will be created (remplace the opportunities list), in this list you will have all tutorials and challanges, like win an amount of PVP in matchmeeting and complete all minigames. If you complete them all and raise your account to omega, you will receive a BS of your choice with an exclusive "alpha" skin and a full set of implants +5. Like this, everybody will have a training the most complete possible helping beginners and veterans to complete their knowledges, have fun, and win extra items!

The most important is to create new content for thoses alpha, making them discover the fun part of EvE > The fight!
In other hand the alpha status must be fun for every player, not only the beginners! In many corporations people like to have a fair and fun fight with small and cheap ships, there is a place to do it and earn points to get extra skins! The match meeting will prevent cheating by earning free points with a "no-fight".

The real danger of Alpha clones is to open the game for too many new players without give them acces to fun like today, they will leave the game massively and tell others on the internet that eve is a ****** game and we will have the worst effect ever :/ Instead of increase the recruitement, players won't come anymore beceause so many of them will read everywhere (because of larger amount of testing accounts) to not come to this hard and not fun game :/ Alpha status must be worked hard to offer a new experience to the new generation of gamers with theirs codes like easy matchmeeting and if they like it, they can continue with an omega status but they will already learned to fly and to take a fight

In my point of view, this new status of Alpha clones must create new mecanics that give acces to fun. This is not a kind of make eve casual, thoses new things will be restricted in 2.0, a kind a micro sandbox in a sandbox game who will learn the basics through multiplayers mini-games. The multi-player aspect is very important to make freinds and give a way to form corporations in this 2.0 place.

So I hope maybe to bring some cool ideas here, and sorry for my english I do my best to take part to the future of eve, trying to make it better for everyone of us, veterans and beginners :)