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So, Barge Info?
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#381 - 2016-08-23 08:10:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Gates anyone?

Using a MJD to be away from the warp in, NPC aggro...


Mean squat. You can gank them as they jump through the gate like anything else. It is just as easy to gank a mission battleship and it is anything else in this game.

So again I ask, how is it that the skiff will be useless with 80k EHP when the mission battleships that have 60-80k EHP are perfectly fine?


Gankers have a boner for ganking miners above anyone else, so what... And the Skiff will be replaced by the Rokh if CCP nerf it like it was before.

I am building two at the moment and I am training my other toon that mines into Caldari BS V which I already have on Dracvlad, so that covers my needs. CCP go make it easier for gankers, by nerfing the Skiff and watch as people change to Rokh's so much for your crap balancing...


Feel free to show this fabled rokh fit that's better than a skiff.

While your at it answer my question, How is 60-80k ehp fine for mission battleships while you think 80k ehp is not fine for the skiff.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#382 - 2016-08-23 08:21:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Gates anyone?

Using a MJD to be away from the warp in, NPC aggro...


Mean squat. You can gank them as they jump through the gate like anything else. It is just as easy to gank a mission battleship and it is anything else in this game.

So again I ask, how is it that the skiff will be useless with 80k EHP when the mission battleships that have 60-80k EHP are perfectly fine?


Gankers have a boner for ganking miners above anyone else, so what... And the Skiff will be replaced by the Rokh if CCP nerf it like it was before.

I am building two at the moment and I am training my other toon that mines into Caldari BS V which I already have on Dracvlad, so that covers my needs. CCP go make it easier for gankers, by nerfing the Skiff and watch as people change to Rokh's so much for your crap balancing...


Feel free to show this fabled rokh fit that's better than a skiff.

While your at it answer my question, How is 60-80k ehp fine for mission battleships while you think 80k ehp is not fine for the skiff.


Better is a relative term mate and that is all one has to say....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#383 - 2016-08-23 08:30:40 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dracvlad wrote:


Better is a relative term mate and that is all one has to say....


Which is to say, it isn't. It either can't mine as much or cant fit a tank and not mine as much and in both cases its cargo hold is non existent. So you are saying you would use a subpar ship that is worse than the skiff in my plan.

Go figure.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#384 - 2016-08-23 08:38:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Better is a relative term mate and that is all one has to say....


Which is to say, it isn't. It either can't mine as much or cant fit a tank and not mine as much and in both cases its cargo hold is non existent. So you are saying you would use a subpar ship that is worse than the skiff in my plan.

Go figure.


The Skiff under your nerf suggestion would be worse for me, it goes from being optimised for hisec mining to being optimised for ganking.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#385 - 2016-08-23 08:41:21 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The Skiff under your nerf suggestion would be worse for me, it goes from being optimised for hisec mining to being optimised for ganking.


Again, same EHP as almost every battleship currently operating perfectly fine in highsec.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#386 - 2016-08-23 08:42:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The Skiff under your nerf suggestion would be worse for me, it goes from being optimised for hisec mining to being optimised for ganking.


Again, same EHP as almost every battleship currently operating perfectly fine in highsec.


Not relevant.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#387 - 2016-08-23 08:55:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Not relevant.


How?

Same EHP in the same area of space.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#388 - 2016-08-23 08:58:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Not relevant.


How?

Same EHP in the same area of space.


Are they mining?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#389 - 2016-08-23 09:00:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Are they mining?


What does that have to do with EHP?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#390 - 2016-08-23 09:16:04 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Are they mining?


What does that have to do with EHP?


What do mission BS have to do with mining?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#391 - 2016-08-23 09:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Contrary to popular thought in this thread, the actual usage stats (in ore mined) as given by Fozzie are below.

Retriever: 23%
Mackinaw: 22%
Hulk: 21%
Skiff: 14%
Procurer: 8%
Covetor: 7%
Venture: 4%
Other: 1%

Skiff and the Procurer are at the bottom of the pile of the barge line up. And so if anything they should be buffed if we are balancing based upon metrics (which is CCP's preferred method of balancing)
Gaius Clabbacus
Control Alt Delve
Goonswarm Federation
#392 - 2016-08-23 10:04:23 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Contrary to popular thought in this thread, the actual usage stats (in ore mined) as given by Fozzie are below.

Retriever: 23%
Mackinaw: 22%
Hulk: 21%
Skiff: 14%
Procurer: 8%
Covetor: 7%
Venture: 4%
Other: 1%

Skiff and the Procurer are at the bottom of the pile of the barge line up. And so if anything they should be buffed if we are balancing based upon metrics (which is CCP's preferred method of balancing)


If only you had bothered to read one more paragraph:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Unsurprisingly the Retriever and Mackinaw are still on top (unchanged from the last time we presented these stats) due to the very high value placed on ore bay capacity among a solid chunk of miners. However we don't feel any need to reduce the power of Retrievers and Mackinaws, as their popularity isn't out of control and other alternatives have their own well-balanced strengths.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#393 - 2016-08-23 10:46:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Again, same EHP as a marauder coupled with an offensive bonus to drones is not easy to gank, especially when they would have logi support.

Can I get the 20,000 ehp *per second* active tank from the marauder too if we are using that as our metric?

That would be one *scary* skiff...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#394 - 2016-08-23 10:57:33 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Are they mining?


What does that have to do with EHP?


What do mission BS have to do with mining?


Same EHP.

You have no argument here.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#395 - 2016-08-23 10:58:50 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Again, same EHP as a marauder coupled with an offensive bonus to drones is not easy to gank, especially when they would have logi support.

Can I get the 20,000 ehp *per second* active tank from the marauder too if we are using that as our metric?

That would be one *scary* skiff...


mining in a fleet with logi macks will give you that.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#396 - 2016-08-23 11:05:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

mining in a fleet with logi macks will give you that.

Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.
Especially since your own calls for change including giving barges PG/CPU & Slots so they can fit active tank, prop mods & other modules as they see fit.

We all know that these Logi Machs are mythical and will never ever happen because mining is one of the lowest income professions. So stop trying to tout them as some magical solution to things.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#397 - 2016-08-23 11:17:33 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.


What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec?

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Especially since your own calls for change including giving barges PG/CPU & Slots so they can fit active tank, prop mods & other modules as they see fit.

We all know that these Logi Machs are mythical and will never ever happen because mining is one of the lowest income professions. So stop trying to tout them as some magical solution to things.


Why would not bring a logi barge? It can sit there and mine with the rest and provide logi when the fleet needs it.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#398 - 2016-08-23 11:24:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.


What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec?

Since Marauders can not receive RR in bastion mode - and non-marauders are better if not using bastion mode... I'm guessing they run local tanks.

You also keep referencing mission ships... But the few missioners who actually do bring RR alts along on their missions get made fun of almost as much as miners who get ganked - because they are "doing it wrong"...



As for what PvP gangs do in high-sec... I don't think you'll get any objections from the miners if you use *those* ships as the baseline...

That would be, what.. Anywhere between 150k-500k ehp? Plus RR on top of that?

Yeah, I think they'd be happy with that... Blink

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Solecist Project
#399 - 2016-08-23 11:30:00 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.


What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec?

Since Marauders can not receive RR in bastion mode - and non-marauders are better if not using bastion mode... I'm guessing they run local tanks.

Wait, what?
Non marauders can use bastion?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#400 - 2016-08-23 11:32:18 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Nice moving Goalposts Baltec. You got called on your example and you have singly failed to back it up.


What do you think incursion gangs and pvp gangs do in highsec?

Since Marauders can not receive RR in bastion mode - and non-marauders are better if not using bastion mode... I'm guessing they run local tanks.

Wait, what?
Non marauders can use bastion?

No, just pointing out that it is a silly point of comparison - and that nobody would be happy with the ehp they get on their incursion marauder if that was *all* they got, without the massive active tank P

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)