EVE General Discussion

Re-do literally the entire Tutorial/NPE, and actually make it informative. Why are new players being started in Cistuvaert, for example, when all their career agents are in Clellinon, and only being given a mail that really doesn't mean anything to them because they just logged in for the first time, don't even know how to set a destination. (gallente)


The flight school video's are a HUGE step in the right direction, but stuff like that needs to be IN game, not just sitting on youtube.



Also, while these opportunities are 'nice,' but they need to not directly conflict with the purpose of the tutorial. Either they need to be massively beefed up to BE the tutorial, or introduced during or after the tutorials.


EDIT: Also redo half the shortcuts. The default settings on this game are horrid. Why are the items and ships hangars not automatically defaulted as merged into your station panel?

New tutorials change nothing. I'll step on your toe with this, but I doubt you have any idea how they should work and just think the current ones are bad.

While not wrong per se, considering history they're not needed.
We have them, because CCP started attempting to attract players of lower quality compared to past ones.

I certainly didn't need any ...
... so the question "why do they?" is 100% legit.

There is no tutorial in the world that can replace proper interaction with others. Zero. None. Zilch.

The real issue is relying on authority, CCP, to do the job players not only should be doing ...
... but also could be doing in a much better way than any tutorials involving NPCs.

CCP is struggling with new players for self made reasons.
It's like asking banks to fix the economy they deliberately ruined for their own profits ...
... aka a simple minded approach and not how things should work.

This has been done before to a MMO called Star Wars Galxaies.

The decision was made to scrap the core of the game and turn it into something radically different, more mainstream, less dangerous and complicated. Upon relese of the NGE the population nosedived, within a month the population was a fraction of what it was and it stayed there. The game continued for a few years with flagging numbers before being shut down.

The lesson was rather clear, if you change the core of game to chase an imaginary larger playerbase you will kill the game. That larger audience doesn't exist and you alienate the loyal customers you have.

As I said. What you think you know and what you know are two entirely different things. Since you've already shown me there is no point in trying to talk to you because you think you have it all figured out, I won't waste my time :) Keep flamin'

You don't get to disagree with the gaming experience I want. If EVE becomes something other than the gaming experience that I originally subscribed to, then it becomes a game called EVE Online by name only, but aside from that, not the game I subscribed to. It becomes something else.

You know how Konami is trying to turn Metal Gear into a zombie survival game now? That's not Metal Gear, it's a zombie game with the name Metal Gear.

Solecist is the master of "..."...
i humbly bow to said master...
ready to follow him in any war...
wherever, whenever, forever...
amen. ..

Make another server.

So players can decide if to begin here or in a brand new server.

Pros and cons.

Here everyone is forced to deal with bored veterans, some become helpful, some become nasty.

Carebear..erm no. Industrialist, Missioner, Explorer, Miner yes.

Yes I have posted about pvp vs pve before..IN AN APPROPRIATE THREAD.

I have never said this isn't a pvp game either, what I have pointed out is the fact that it isn't purely a pvp game.

I have pointed out the packs available to new players that don't scream pvp. I have mentioned the marketing by CCP that doesn't say this is purely a pvp game, others have pointed out facts that point to this not just being a pvp game.

Look at the releases over the last few years, have any screamed to the public COME JOIN THE ULTIMATE PVP GAME? No they haven't, what they have said is come join eve and explore and build stuff etc.

Showing a few battles doesn't show that the game is just about pvp.

I'll reiterate what I already said, if CCP seriously believe that the core concept of the game is pvp, then market it as such. Put it on the front page of the site, put it on the front page of the new player faq's, hell even putting the new player faq's where they can been instantly seen by prospective players would help.

Players as blinkered as yourself though will never accept it, i'm not the one in the corner going lalala.

So you can be civil. The moment you start going back into your usual I'm shutting the conversation down again, fair?



You're right, Scope and CAS are about as good as it gets in terms of activity/people coming going/staying. But that's not really a factor in terms of the tutorials, and opportunities.

I've spent the better part of my time in Cistuveart over the last few weeks. I've taken breaks from the rest of the game and vacation here for a week or two every few months. I do enjoy this system, for what it is.



You say that the job of teaching is supposed to be done by players. I don't disagree.


However, if you were to spend a few days floating around Cistuvaert, there is a big problem with that. There aren't many older players that want to be bothered with teaching new players. Sure you have the Eve uni recruiter who comes by from time to time, and the horde guy and Karma fleet guy, but by and large, there are not older players here doing that teaching. Mostly just couple month old players trying to recruit for their mining corps. I'm sure it's worse in less populated schools.



Brand new players get dropped here in Cistuveart. They get dropped in space with the 'I'm your career agent come talk to me in so and so' mail, and nothing but other new players and players that know just enough to do more harm than good to 'teach them.'


So they turn to the only thing they have: Either winging it and hoping for the best, or the opportunities/career agents. Last character I ran through the tutorials was a year or so ago so I remembered what they were like. They're really quite poor. All text, not exciting or engaging, barely have useful information. That's if a new player can even figure out where and how to get to the career agent. That little mail that says go to Clellinon.... they've forgotten about it and don't know how to set a destination anyway.



Right now I've got 77 people in Cistuveart(steam free weekend). Nothing is going on in local chat. No one is helping new players here at the moment, and they're not asking for help, because they're trying to do the opportunities. When the few of us who I see around here with any regularity try, we either have language barriers or there are just sooooooo many questions we can't get ot them all. Last time I was in the help channels it was the same.



The problem with a 'players should do the teaching' system, which I agree would be best, is that simply put, there aren't enough players doing that teaching, or many are definitely not teaching well. The tutorials are a tool that can and should be used to teach the basics, to help a new person figure out where they are, what station and stargate is, what a rat is, and the basics of how to handle their ship, so they can at least undock and know what they're looking at. But they are old and crap and need redone. CCP has spent a fair bit of time doing a whole collection of video's on all kinds of subjects. They don't cover everything, but they are on youtube and are pretty decent for what a new player needs to know. These video's need worked into the in game tutorials, not just left to sit on some youtube channel. Reading walls of text over and over is boring AF. having a quick 3 minute vid show it all to you i so much more effective.


Again, players doing this would be best.... but..... not many will. So a tool is needed to cover this most basic function, help get new players at least flying their ship the right way, so the players who ARE trying to fill that roll can start actually doing some of that social part of an MMO, not starting to get irritated with explaining what a star gate is for the 16th time today.



The other thing is why are players being started 3 or 4 jumps from where the tutorials actually are. They've logged in. Awesome! They've docked/undocked. Good..... now what? The tutorials can provide that first bit of direction and 'what is this thing' that there are just not enough older players out here to do.



Scope likely retains people slightly better because of the personalities it attracts. You go through your character selection, and you can either be the Imperial Amarr, the Rebel/Freedom Fighter Minmatar, the Corporate Caldari, or the Defenders of Freedom Gallente. Each of those descriptions draws to a different type of personality. Scope attracts personalities that occasionally do things, just because. A guy in Scope was running Sisters standings missions the other day for Scope. I routinely go and do Orca/Claymore boosts in noob systems. Guys used to organize Scope fleets. I don't have Empirical data to confirm it, but scope seems to attract more 'Do stuff/help people' personalities.






The main problem with the tutorials and opportunities, is they directly clash, in a role they need to be focused and work together on. 'Go here to do tutorials' ' do this and this and this and this to check things off the map.' They need streamlined into one process.There aren't enough players out here doing that teaching job. CCP has the means and tools to provide that most basic direction. They've already done quite a bit of it, and it's not bad at all. But it's all out of game and not immediately accessible. Now CCP needs to go back, gut the old system, take all the great work they've done out of game, and put it in the game. Also actively recruiting more ISD/help channel helpers would be a huge step forward. I've filled that application out. But didn't submit it. Wasn't sure what I was doing in the game at the time. I do not suggest that it's all 100% on CCP. I do suggest that based on what I see on a day to day basis, there are just not enough players who want to do that job. So since that's the bottleneck, CCP has the ability to do the whole First few hours of the NPE so much better. It just needs to be done.

That's a lot to adress, but before i get to that do i have to wonder:

Why aren't you trying to grab some and just do something?

I can do that if you want to?
in 30 minutes?

Tell them to get frigates and gather at a place around there, i will come and pick them up.
Anyone who can fit a combat probe launcher and knows how to use them should do so.

More after my arrival.


...

This isn't meant insulting or condescending, but ...
it's really not that ******* hard to just ask for people to pick them up.
The rest works out by itself.

The "learning by doing" approach works for the vast majority of people.

Okay so now it's ... okay... at 14:15? What time is it... aaahhhh ... lol