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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1461 - 2016-08-14 17:42:39 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?

For a number of years I have done my best to provide content for Eve Online and have tried to put forward a few survival techniques that could of inspired a different type of game play to emerge.

Going back a few pages I saw that people were complaining about how easy it is to bump and eventually gank a freighter, the solution to this seems to involve having some friends to jam the ship bumping the freighter and another friend to web it it so it can goto warp faster. Can anyone see how being part of a blue community could help here?

I know your answers already, you're going to say that blue communities can't be organised and a proper leadership structure needs to be in place. I think you are wrong and that your attitudes and perceptions toward my views are ignorant.

Why not be part of a blue community? Why can't dudes who know how to escort freighters be part of this community and charge a reasonable amount of isk to escort freighters? Why can't freighter pilots join this community and pay escort services to get their freighters to their destination? I just think we should do everything we can to remedy the problem before complaining and going on strike.

I'm not trying to say CCP is perfect, all I am saying is the mechanics are what they are and we just need to get our thinking caps on and work out a way get around it. A big part of the problem is peoples attitudes toward the game, CCP has marketed this game in a manner that should show you that GABOS (Game Ain't Based On Sympathy) applies here fully, the gloves are off and you seriously have to keep your wits about you in order to achieve your personal or corp/alliance goals. This is my kind of game and I love it I love realism, I love it when odds are not in my favour, to me this is as real as scifi/games can get.

There's nothing set in stone that says CCP has to make the game to your liking. Like I have always said for a long time, the hisec populace has more power than they know. Take some time to understand exactly what pvp'ers are trying to do to you, learn the counter move. Once you've learnt it, teach it to someone else and at the same time be prepared to have other people teach you things about pvp.

When you are ready drop me a mail and I will assist in building this blue community in hisec and nullsec, We can have fun doing stuff about ganking and other problems in the game and we will help the little guy.

I hope this message didn't fall upon deaf ears I do not want to see my beautiful Eve Online go under please help me to provide a better experience because we are all investors in this game so lets act like it and take control of where this game is clearly headed.


You suggested jamming a ship that is bumping someone, perhaps you might want to think that through a bit more....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1462 - 2016-08-14 17:48:18 UTC
No game on the market has ever made me strive to play better than Eve has, It has made me think outside the box many times, I've had to adapt my game play and find counter attacks for many of the opponents that I have faced, it has made me accept that within the game I am not strong enough to fight certain folks unless I find friends and come up with a plan of attack.

I'm even inspired to write a story about my character just so I have a reference to all the good and bad times in Eve.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1463 - 2016-08-14 18:18:47 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?


Not really possible as its changes that have caused the problem.

85% of people who quit after their trial do so having done no pvp. All the evidence points to the more conflict you have the more people join the game. CCP have shown this in graphs and we have past evidence of higher growth back when EVE had more conflict going on. This doesn't mean make groups such as miners, haulers and so on helpless but it does mean reworking mistakes made in the past.
Wanda Fayne
#1464 - 2016-08-14 18:34:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Wanda Fayne
baltec1 wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?


Not really possible as its changes that have contributed to the problem.


FTFY

Ultimately it is people who define this game.
You can stab someone with a spoon if you really want toBlink

edit.
What is needed is a change in mindset. Mechanics alone will not do that.

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1465 - 2016-08-14 18:47:17 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:


edit.
What is needed is a change in mindset. Mechanics alone will not do that.


Change in mindset goes hand in hand with changes in mechanics and ship balance. Inject a bit of danger into an activity and people will adapt to the danger.

For example, Null needed to have its power projection nerfed and when it happened there was a bitchfit by a fairly loud chunk but the outcome was great. No more flying across the galaxy the third party a fight and then back again in 2 hours. EVE got big again.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1466 - 2016-08-14 19:12:05 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?


Not really possible as its changes that have caused the problem.

85% of people who quit after their trial do so having done no pvp. All the evidence points to the more conflict you have the more people join the game. CCP have shown this in graphs and we have past evidence of higher growth back when EVE had more conflict going on. This doesn't mean make groups such as miners, haulers and so on helpless but it does mean reworking mistakes made in the past.


This is what I mean about ignorance, yes of course the mechanics affect the way people play. My point is that we should work harder to make something out of this regardless of the mechanic.

I've been living out in Stain for god knows how long and yes mechanic changes affect me too, It is hard for me to get stuff to hisec yes....Do I stop logging on and complain about the changes on forums? No. I roll my sleeves up, scan out the nearest wormhole and eventually find a route to hi sec....Can you see what I did here?

I learned quickly that if you adapt to the mechanics it makes things easier. You have a negative way at looking at these issues, I see mechanic changes as a challenge you see them as a problem. Positive mental attitude can help.


wikipedia.org wrote:


Positive mental attitude (PMA) is the philosophy that having an optimistic disposition in every situation in one's life attracts positive changes and increases achievement. Adherents employ a state of mind that continues to seek, find and execute ways to win, or find a desirable outcome, regardless of the circumstances. It opposes negativity, defeatism and hopelessness. Optimism and hope are vital to the development of PMA.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1467 - 2016-08-14 19:23:46 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?

For a number of years I have done my best to provide content for Eve Online and have tried to put forward a few survival techniques that could of inspired a different type of game play to emerge.

Going back a few pages I saw that people were complaining about how easy it is to bump and eventually gank a freighter, the solution to this seems to involve having some friends to jam the ship bumping the freighter and another friend to web it it so it can goto warp faster. Can anyone see how being part of a blue community could help here?

I know your answers already, you're going to say that blue communities can't be organised and a proper leadership structure needs to be in place. I think you are wrong and that your attitudes and perceptions toward my views are ignorant.

Why not be part of a blue community? Why can't dudes who know how to escort freighters be part of this community and charge a reasonable amount of isk to escort freighters? Why can't freighter pilots join this community and pay escort services to get their freighters to their destination? I just think we should do everything we can to remedy the problem before complaining and going on strike.

I'm not trying to say CCP is perfect, all I am saying is the mechanics are what they are and we just need to get our thinking caps on and work out a way get around it. A big part of the problem is peoples attitudes toward the game, CCP has marketed this game in a manner that should show you that GABOS (Game Ain't Based On Sympathy) applies here fully, the gloves are off and you seriously have to keep your wits about you in order to achieve your personal or corp/alliance goals. This is my kind of game and I love it I love realism, I love it when odds are not in my favour, to me this is as real as scifi/games can get.

There's nothing set in stone that says CCP has to make the game to your liking. Like I have always said for a long time, the hisec populace has more power than they know. Take some time to understand exactly what pvp'ers are trying to do to you, learn the counter move. Once you've learnt it, teach it to someone else and at the same time be prepared to have other people teach you things about pvp.

When you are ready drop me a mail and I will assist in building this blue community in hisec and nullsec, We can have fun doing stuff about ganking and other problems in the game and we will help the little guy.

I hope this message didn't fall upon deaf ears I do not want to see my beautiful Eve Online go under please help me to provide a better experience because we are all investors in this game so lets act like it and take control of where this game is clearly headed.


You suggested jamming a ship that is bumping someone, perhaps you might want to think that through a bit more....


I meant that ECM ships should be part of the escort to jam the bumper or any other ship that points the freighter if needed.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1468 - 2016-08-14 19:29:01 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?

For a number of years I have done my best to provide content for Eve Online and have tried to put forward a few survival techniques that could of inspired a different type of game play to emerge.

Going back a few pages I saw that people were complaining about how easy it is to bump and eventually gank a freighter, the solution to this seems to involve having some friends to jam the ship bumping the freighter and another friend to web it it so it can goto warp faster. Can anyone see how being part of a blue community could help here? ... removed for space.


You suggested jamming a ship that is bumping someone, perhaps you might want to think that through a bit more....


I meant that ECM ships should be part of the escort to jam the bumper or any other ship that points the freighter if needed.


If you jam the bumper you will be CONCORDED as they have not aggressed in terms of the mechanics. A bumper can at the moment keep a ship effectively pointed for hours without going suspect or criminal. Also jamming the bumper will have zero affect on the bumping that he is doing.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1469 - 2016-08-14 19:35:08 UTC
Aaron wrote:


This is what I mean about ignorance, yes of course the mechanics affect the way people play. My point is that we should work harder to make something out of this regardless of the mechanic.

I've been living out in Stain for god knows how long and yes mechanic changes affect me too, It is hard for me to get stuff to hisec yes....Do I stop logging on and complain about the changes on forums? No. I roll my sleeves up, scan out the nearest wormhole and eventually find a route to hi sec....Can you see what I did here?

I learned quickly that if you adapt to the mechanics it makes things easier. You have a negative way at looking at these issues, I see mechanic changes as a challenge you see them as a problem. Positive mental attitude can help.


All the positive thoughts in the world won't bring back Hulkageddon, ice interdictions, jetcan piracy and a reason the fly the hulk over a skiff.
Solecist Project
#1470 - 2016-08-14 19:37:26 UTC
If you want to save the game, you have to fight for the most precious asset - or resource - in the game.
A fight that is dominated by carebears, except in one or two select locations.

But it would involve work and most people don't want that work.

This isn't the community from back then, that would gladly have taken this onto themselves.

It's actually really easy.


You hook them with both with a sense of adventure ...
... and with an adrenaline rush.


That's the easy part.


The hard part is actually attracting them.
Sitting in rookie-corp and trying to gather their attention. (often just silence and no one reading)
Try sitting in rookie-system and gathering their attention. (see above)

You want to save the game, then save it from the bullshit that they are going through.

The earlier you free them, the better it will be.


Everything else ... all the bullshit details about how people want this or that mechanic changed IN THE NAME OF THE NEWBIE AND RETENTION RATE are nothing but selfish bullshit projected onto others. There is no mechanic that could be changed that would help anything, unless these mechanics serve the purpose of increasing interactivity, sense of adventure and immersion.

Immersion can only be properly achieved by having new players realize that they are not alone and that there are actually things going on, instead of having them cruise through highsec completely ignorant of their surroundings.

If you want to save the game, then that's where you have to go.

And then force CCP to make it possible to fluidly switch between NPC and rookie corps.


Force them to make new players actual assets people actually want to fight for and you have a winner.


Pearls before the swine ...

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1471 - 2016-08-14 19:41:58 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?

For a number of years I have done my best to provide content for Eve Online and have tried to put forward a few survival techniques that could of inspired a different type of game play to emerge.

Going back a few pages I saw that people were complaining about how easy it is to bump and eventually gank a freighter, the solution to this seems to involve having some friends to jam the ship bumping the freighter and another friend to web it it so it can goto warp faster. Can anyone see how being part of a blue community could help here? ... removed for space.


You suggested jamming a ship that is bumping someone, perhaps you might want to think that through a bit more....


I meant that ECM ships should be part of the escort to jam the bumper or any other ship that points the freighter if needed.


If you jam the bumper you will be CONCORDED as they have not aggressed in terms of the mechanics. A bumper can at the moment keep a ship effectively pointed for hours without going suspect or criminal. Also jamming the bumper will have zero affect on the bumping that he is doing.


Ok, so the scenario is...

A freighter, 2 blackbirds, and a webber are going about their business and are set upon by a Macherial who proceeds to bump the frieghter so that the gank fleet can come in and destroy it.

I think I read that if you don't point a freighter after 3 minutes it can warp unless it is pointed...was this an idea or is it part of the current mechanic?

If that is the current mechanic, then Drac can you not see that ECM ships are useful to have as part of the escort? If the freighter does get pointed wouldn't it make sense to suicide 2 blackbirds in the hope of disabling the point so the freight can be webbed and warp to safety?

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Solecist Project
#1472 - 2016-08-14 19:43:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
To add to this:

CCP Ghosts idea of giving new players their own stories to get them hooked are nice, but this will only really work if these stories are not based on NPCs. If they are, the whole situation will just get WORSE.


There.


Btw, I tried everything I've written above.
I probably did more than 90% of you people who mostly talk.
Now some moron will get triggered and complain about it.


I bet - at best - 0.1% of you will even try and of these probably 50% will fail because it was an half-assed approach.


So ... the last thing you need to consider is that the best and likeliest way of succeeding is getting organized.


As I said ... treat noobs like a valueable resource and you will win this game.


Or let the carebears keep dominating the new players until the game's run into the ground for good.



Feel free to mail me for a talk ... but I know you people, 90% of you are just posers. vOv
(who's the first to get triggered?)

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1473 - 2016-08-14 20:01:50 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Ok, so you guys have discussed the reasons for why less users are playing each year, Could we focus on solutions that do not involve CCP changing anything?

For a number of years I have done my best to provide content for Eve Online and have tried to put forward a few survival techniques that could of inspired a different type of game play to emerge.

Going back a few pages I saw that people were complaining about how easy it is to bump and eventually gank a freighter, the solution to this seems to involve having some friends to jam the ship bumping the freighter and another friend to web it it so it can goto warp faster. Can anyone see how being part of a blue community could help here? ... removed for space.


You suggested jamming a ship that is bumping someone, perhaps you might want to think that through a bit more....


I meant that ECM ships should be part of the escort to jam the bumper or any other ship that points the freighter if needed.


If you jam the bumper you will be CONCORDED as they have not aggressed in terms of the mechanics. A bumper can at the moment keep a ship effectively pointed for hours without going suspect or criminal. Also jamming the bumper will have zero affect on the bumping that he is doing.


Ok, so the scenario is...

A freighter, 2 blackbirds, and a webber are going about their business and are set upon by a Macherial who proceeds to bump the frieghter so that the gank fleet can come in and destroy it.

I think I read that if you don't point a freighter after 3 minutes it can warp unless it is pointed...was this an idea or is it part of the current mechanic?

If that is the current mechanic, then Drac can you not see that ECM ships are useful to have as part of the escort? If the freighter does get pointed wouldn't it make sense to suicide 2 blackbirds in the hope of disabling the point so the freight can be webbed and warp to safety?


At the present moment the fix for bumping has not been applied, there is no ETA on it as far as we know, so it is not part of the current mechanic. When the mechanic does get applied or if it gets applied the ganker has to apply a point to re-set the 3 minute timer, it is likely to be a noob ship with a sensor booster and sensor strength script added to it.

But have you realised that your whole approach breaks down because this is a change to the game mechanic which you said was not needed.

Webbing does not enable the freighter to get out of the bump, you need to understand how the mechanic works, all webbing does is reduce top speed. Also you have the issue of having to do a duel or be in a corp with the freighter and have it set so you can fire on them . But the Macherial is still there bumping, your only option is to blow up the Macherial.

A Macherial setup for the most efficient bumping can be killed with one Talos, however if they add a little bit of a tank and most now do, it gets up to 3 or 4 Talos.

The best option at the moment is to come in and gank the suicide blackbird before it points the freighter so your webber can get the freighter into warp before the bumper can get on it. You should go and try this out, note the Blackbird normally has a 1600 plate on it due to gate guns. I have not looked into what it would take to gank that blackbird at this point, but you might want to check it out.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1474 - 2016-08-14 20:08:49 UTC
Use a web to get the freighter into warp before its even a problem. Bump the bumpers. Get a fast ship out in front of the bumped freighter and warp to that. Gank the bumper.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1475 - 2016-08-14 20:20:14 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Use a web to get the freighter into warp before its even a problem. Bump the bumpers. Get a fast ship out in front of the bumped freighter and warp to that. Gank the bumper.


Yes, I was wrong on the exact details and mechanics. If anyone bothered to read my whole post I talk about having friends to carry out these roles of bumping the bumper, get into a blue community where there are people know how to do what baltec mentions and hire them to escort your freighter.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1476 - 2016-08-14 20:29:46 UTC
Aaron wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Use a web to get the freighter into warp before its even a problem. Bump the bumpers. Get a fast ship out in front of the bumped freighter and warp to that. Gank the bumper.


Yes, I was wrong on the exact details and mechanics. If anyone bothered to read my whole post I talk about having friends to carry out these roles of bumping the bumper, get into a blue community where there are people know how to do what baltec mentions and hire them to escort your freighter.


According to the statistics posted earlier in this thread Black/Red frog don't seem to have a problem with their freighter runs and losses. Perhaps we could find out what they do to avoid/counter ganks and adopt it into our playstyle?

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1477 - 2016-08-14 20:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Brokk Witgenstein
According to redfrog sources, they simply autopilot and don't accept over 1 bil's worth. The occasional losses are factored into the price.


Edit: I went ahead to look up the source.
Dual Cargo Extenders plus 1 bil collateral max- as explained in the FAQ. No webber/scout as the contract alts are under permadec.



Q3: Are there any restrictions?

A: Yes. EVE is a cold, harsh place so we had to implement certain restrictions on our trips:

1. Hisec ONLY. For losec/nosec work Black Frog Logistics: Channel Black Frog
2. Max 1 Billion collateral per trip. For higher collateral work Blue Frog Freight: Channel Blue Frog
3. Max 845k m3 volume per trip.
4. Minimum 3 days expiration and 1 day completion. Under holidays etc, minimum expiration can be set to 7 days. Our trip calculator will let you know

The 1 billion collateral is because that is just below the profitability threshold of hisec suicide gank fleets. The 845k m3 volume limit is because it can be handled by a Fenrir pilot with freighter 4 (freighter 5 takes forever to train and few people do it). We only work in hisec because losec/nosec is instant death to a lone freighter pilot.




There you go.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1478 - 2016-08-14 21:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
According to redfrog sources, they simply autopilot and don't accept over 1 bil's worth. The occasional losses are factored into the price.


Edit: I went ahead to look up the source.
Dual Cargo Extenders plus 1 bil collateral max- as explained in the FAQ. No webber/scout as the contract alts are under permadec.



Q3: Are there any restrictions?

A: Yes. EVE is a cold, harsh place so we had to implement certain restrictions on our trips:

1. Hisec ONLY. For losec/nosec work Black Frog Logistics: Channel Black Frog
2. Max 1 Billion collateral per trip. For higher collateral work Blue Frog Freight: Channel Blue Frog
3. Max 845k m3 volume per trip.
4. Minimum 3 days expiration and 1 day completion. Under holidays etc, minimum expiration can be set to 7 days. Our trip calculator will let you know

The 1 billion collateral is because that is just below the profitability threshold of hisec suicide gank fleets. The 845k m3 volume limit is because it can be handled by a Fenrir pilot with freighter 4 (freighter 5 takes forever to train and few people do it). We only work in hisec because losec/nosec is instant death to a lone freighter pilot.




There you go.


Well it seems clear to me that we have to accept that Black/Red Frog are professionals in haulage and they seem to have policies in place that help them stay under the gankers radar and continue doing business. It seems they do use freighters due to the 843k m3 limit.

Could we not just let these guys lead the way in setting an operational standard and copy them?

I get that there are more mechanics people have a problem with like the war dec, many of the perceived problems could be solved by changing attitude to one where youre open to listening and working with others and adopting their playstyle because it works.

CCP allow me to post my "Invitation to 0.0" threads on their main forum, I think they endorse ideas for a relaxed blue community working in null/hi-sec and helping one another out.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1479 - 2016-08-14 22:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Aaron wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
According to redfrog sources, they simply autopilot and don't accept over 1 bil's worth. The occasional losses are factored into the price.


Edit: I went ahead to look up the source.
Dual Cargo Extenders plus 1 bil collateral max- as explained in the FAQ. No webber/scout as the contract alts are under permadec.



Q3: Are there any restrictions?

A: Yes. EVE is a cold, harsh place so we had to implement certain restrictions on our trips:

1. Hisec ONLY. For losec/nosec work Black Frog Logistics: Channel Black Frog
2. Max 1 Billion collateral per trip. For higher collateral work Blue Frog Freight: Channel Blue Frog
3. Max 845k m3 volume per trip.
4. Minimum 3 days expiration and 1 day completion. Under holidays etc, minimum expiration can be set to 7 days. Our trip calculator will let you know

The 1 billion collateral is because that is just below the profitability threshold of hisec suicide gank fleets. The 845k m3 volume limit is because it can be handled by a Fenrir pilot with freighter 4 (freighter 5 takes forever to train and few people do it). We only work in hisec because losec/nosec is instant death to a lone freighter pilot.




There you go.


Well it seems clear to me that we have to accept that Black/Red Frog are professionals in haulage and they seem to have policies in place that help them stay under the gankers radar and continue doing business. It seems they do use freighters due to the 843k m3 limit.

Could we not just let these guys lead the way in setting an operational standard and copy them?

I get that there are more mechanics people have a problem with like the war dec, many of the perceived problems could be solved by changing attitude to one where youre open to listening and working with others and adopting their playstyle because it works.

CCP allow me to post my "Invitation to 0.0" threads on their main forum, I think they endorse ideas for a relaxed blue community working in nul/hil-sec and helping one another out.

Yes. The scourge of ganking isn't the issue it's made out to be.

Suicide blackbirds are even less of an issue in terms of bumping avoidance.

People come here and share their individual stories, often with a view that their one personal experience represents the general situation. Few actually attempt to validate what they think.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#1480 - 2016-08-14 23:09:08 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
According to redfrog sources, they simply autopilot and don't accept over 1 bil's worth. The occasional losses are factored into the price.


Edit: I went ahead to look up the source.
Dual Cargo Extenders plus 1 bil collateral max- as explained in the FAQ. No webber/scout as the contract alts are under permadec.



Q3: Are there any restrictions?

A: Yes. EVE is a cold, harsh place so we had to implement certain restrictions on our trips:

1. Hisec ONLY. For losec/nosec work Black Frog Logistics: Channel Black Frog
2. Max 1 Billion collateral per trip. For higher collateral work Blue Frog Freight: Channel Blue Frog
3. Max 845k m3 volume per trip.
4. Minimum 3 days expiration and 1 day completion. Under holidays etc, minimum expiration can be set to 7 days. Our trip calculator will let you know

The 1 billion collateral is because that is just below the profitability threshold of hisec suicide gank fleets. The 845k m3 volume limit is because it can be handled by a Fenrir pilot with freighter 4 (freighter 5 takes forever to train and few people do it). We only work in hisec because losec/nosec is instant death to a lone freighter pilot.




There you go.


Well it seems clear to me that we have to accept that Black/Red Frog are professionals in haulage and they seem to have policies in place that help them stay under the gankers radar and continue doing business. It seems they do use freighters due to the 843k m3 limit.

Could we not just let these guys lead the way in setting an operational standard and copy them?

I get that there are more mechanics people have a problem with like the war dec, many of the perceived problems could be solved by changing attitude to one where youre open to listening and working with others and adopting their playstyle because it works.

CCP allow me to post my "Invitation to 0.0" threads on their main forum, I think they endorse ideas for a relaxed blue community working in nul/hil-sec and helping one another out.

Yes. The scourge of ganking isn't the issue it's made out to be.

Suicide blackbirds are even less of an issue in terms of bumping avoidance.

People come here and share their individual stories, often with a view that their one personal experience represents the general situation. Few actually attempt to validate what they think.


Whenever I have faced a problem I eventually adapt and once I do I find it easier to move forward. I remember not being so well versed in pvp living in Stain around 2005/6 I used to fly a heavy launcher fitted cerberus and clear the belt rats, There was a guy in a Falcon that kept hassling me and trying to extort money from me, he would ECM me and then fire at me the only option left was for me to warp away and smack talk in local, I was sick of him coming in local saying "1 billion isk a week or you can't ratting" So eventually I worked out what he was doing, went to hi-sec trained FOF missiles, brought bluprints and headed back to Stain.

The Falcon pilot comes back and ECM's me and starts firing, I switch to FOF missiles and fire, he starts taking damage and warps off, I'm able to continue ratting ratting in peace.

It was fun finding the counter and implementing it with 100% success, fair enough I didn't get a kill I got him off my back.


Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie