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300 Km Max Targeting Range
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Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-08-03 10:28:14 UTC
so..... maxing the targeting range on a ship you can achieve 300 km and no more...
ships like dreads can fire over 300 km..

mmmm
CCPlogic? Shocked

i can understand the cap at 300km with old grids etc, but with new grids doesn't make sense at all.
welp
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2016-08-03 11:50:24 UTC
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#3 - 2016-08-03 13:09:59 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.

Except they already raised it from 250km to 300km around the same time they increased grid size....so they *already* changed it...to 300km...

I agree it is an odd design decision - but it is clearly intentional...for some reason.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2016-08-03 13:33:35 UTC
Its a hangover from when the grid sizes were only aboutthe same , so you could only see that far.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#5 - 2016-08-03 15:55:10 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.

Except they already raised it from 250km to 300km around the same time they increased grid size....so they *already* changed it...to 300km...

I agree it is an odd design decision - but it is clearly intentional...for some reason.


Odd indeed. Never gave it that much thought until now. I would love to hear a justification for that.

Max

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
Brigadine Ferathine
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-08-03 15:57:12 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.

Except they already raised it from 250km to 300km around the same time they increased grid size....so they *already* changed it...to 300km...

I agree it is an odd design decision - but it is clearly intentional...for some reason.


Odd indeed. Never gave it that much thought until now. I would love to hear a justification for that.

Max

Lazyness?
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#7 - 2016-08-03 16:30:58 UTC
Max Fubarticus wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.

Except they already raised it from 250km to 300km around the same time they increased grid size....so they *already* changed it...to 300km...

I agree it is an odd design decision - but it is clearly intentional...for some reason.


Odd indeed. Never gave it that much thought until now. I would love to hear a justification for that.

Max

Ill give it a stab cuz Im bored.Twisted

After a certain point even with big guns tracking formulas become stupidly simple and almost non existent. With longer and longer range weapons and bigger grids this would mean that you could potentially lock and fire with almost impunity at great ranges and as is possible now to fire further you would see a sniper fleet doctrine be much more in style and I think CCP would want to limit this to allow for actual engagement instead of long range artillery bombardments and N+1 scenarios where fast, mobile, small sig radii orbiting logi could rep such ships easily without incurring the wrath of the alpha dps gods entirely.

But if tactics evolve to a point Im sure CCP might look at extending those ranges. But I think the days of old of countering a brawling fleet with an extended range sniper fleet might be over and battles should, imo, be more of actual encounters with more risk to both sides. That being said I do enjoy wiping entire fleets while they cry tears of impotent rage as the next guy.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#8 - 2016-08-03 16:36:24 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
Max Fubarticus wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Legacy code which isn't trivial to remove. Also game balance aspects.

Except they already raised it from 250km to 300km around the same time they increased grid size....so they *already* changed it...to 300km...

I agree it is an odd design decision - but it is clearly intentional...for some reason.


Odd indeed. Never gave it that much thought until now. I would love to hear a justification for that.

Max

Ill give it a stab cuz Im bored.Twisted

After a certain point even with big guns tracking formulas become stupidly simple and almost non existent. With longer and longer range weapons and bigger grids this would mean that you could potentially lock and fire with almost impunity at great ranges and as is possible now to fire further you would see a sniper fleet doctrine be much more in style and I think CCP would want to limit this to allow for actual engagement instead of long range artillery bombardments and N+1 scenarios where fast, mobile, small sig radii orbiting logi could rep such ships easily without incurring the wrath of the alpha dps gods entirely.

But if tactics evolve to a point Im sure CCP might look at extending those ranges. But I think the days of old of countering a brawling fleet with an extended range sniper fleet might be over and battles should, imo, be more of actual encounters with more risk to both sides. That being said I do enjoy wiping entire fleets while they cry tears of impotent rage as the next guy.

If that were their reasoning - they wouldn't have Carriers that can fight from over 3500km away from their targets...

No, the reason, upon reflection, is simple - we are being dragged down by structure warfare. All the activation ranges/etc on structures are capped at 300km - and CCP doesn't feel like extending them (with Citadels anything close to 1000km would be completely game breaking). Stupid structures are holding us back...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-08-03 17:22:55 UTC
actually the tracking formula doesn't allow you to get better tracking at longer distance, that's for sig radius.
i'm speaking for a dread: it needs ewar support at close distance to hit something 300km away.

that said, carriers have already an insane lock range so........ CCP should uncap all target ranges.
it's already a no-problem with the introduction of command destroyers that can jump 100km all the fleet or just the 3-4 command destroyer need to close the distance and be a www.

and obviosuly if you fit a ship for max range lock and sniper mode, the moment someone land on you, you'll have 0 tank.
and will be 2 shotted by a frig Cool

no need to balance anything, just uncap the target range
CCPlease
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#10 - 2016-08-03 17:44:43 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
actually the tracking formula doesn't allow you to get better tracking at longer distance, that's for sig radius.
i'm speaking for a dread: it needs ewar support at close distance to hit something 300km away.

that said, carriers have already an insane lock range so........ CCP should uncap all target ranges.
it's already a no-problem with the introduction of command destroyers that can jump 100km all the fleet or just the 3-4 command destroyer need to close the distance and be a www.

and obviosuly if you fit a ship for max range lock and sniper mode, the moment someone land on you, you'll have 0 tank.
and will be 2 shotted by a frig Cool

no need to balance anything, just uncap the target range
CCPlease

And are you the one who is going to tell all the Citadel owners that they can no longer defend their Citadel even if they are online to man the guns?

Or alternatively the one to explain to everyone in 0.0 why that keepstar 1000km off the gate can kill them as soon as they jump through into the large t2 bubble at 0 on the gate?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-08-03 17:51:47 UTC
just need to reset the distance where citadels can be anchored, not a big deal.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#12 - 2016-08-03 17:54:03 UTC
Soel Reit wrote:
just need to reset the distance where citadels can be anchored, not a big deal.

And relocate all the Citadels already anchored....should CCP get to decide that or will there be a process to let the players do it?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Serene Repose
#13 - 2016-08-03 17:54:22 UTC
Take into consideration an accompanying stat. At what distance can you initiate warp? Only so far away...can't...one more meter, can. Now. What kind of (imaginary) tracking/firing tech can overcome the time/space continuum? At which point can a charge in a projectile shell become more powerful than your standard engines, or rival your warp drive?

Or, do you actually see yourselves hitting something all the way across a solar system, as though it's just a table top?

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-08-03 17:56:32 UTC
should have thought about it before releasing citadels with drag bubble etc Lol
but you know it's ccp we are talking about Cool

so..... to answer you Roll just unanchored all citadels closer that the new distance being done from ccp and that's it
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-08-03 17:57:17 UTC
See? ^^^^ This is someone who's put some thought into this.

This ties in with drag bubble range, citadel weapon range, the not-yet-disclosed ongrid booster range... Carriers may indeed lock from further away but their main guns (lol) can't and the fighters need to come well within 300km as well.

At some point, some git is going to work out a way to get a remote-boosted Rokh to snipe from a gaycamping citadel to a bubble and hilarity will ensue :-D
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#16 - 2016-08-03 17:57:34 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Take into consideration an accompanying stat. At what distance can you initiate warp? Only so far away...can't...one more meter, can. Now. What kind of (imaginary) tracking/firing tech can overcome the time/space continuum? At which point can a charge in a projectile shell become more powerful than your standard engines, or rival your warp drive?

Or, do you actually see yourselves hitting something all the way across a solar system, as though it's just a table top?

Well realistically there is no reason you couldn't - but for realism we should add travel time to all the ammo then...not just missiles...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-08-03 17:58:24 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:


Or alternatively the one to explain to everyone in 0.0 why that keepstar 1000km off the gate can kill them as soon as they jump through into the large t2 bubble at 0 on the gate?


Citadels should have never been allowed on grid with the gates anyway, but that's another topic.

I expect though that it's hit the nail on the head that it has to do with the ranges that structures can engage at. Although, Citadels get a range out to 350 km.

Interestingly, the max range on Citadel Ammo is quite a bit further. Some of the guided bombs could, in theory, travel a million km (assuming my math is right).

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Trevize Demerzel
#18 - 2016-08-03 17:58:50 UTC
The ESA hit a comet spot on with a small satellite... That was from Earth... this year.. Not far far in the future. That comet was 6.4 billion km away.

Just saying..

NASA has also hit an asteroid in 2005 that was 64 million km away.

That said, today we have JIT manufacturing and industry has the ability to deliver products on time. Eve PI has also lost this ability. Some things in Eve are certainly backwards tech as modern day tech here on Earth far exceeds Eve. :-)

But yes it is a game, with game mechanics and game balance issues/concerns. So it's all good to me!



-
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-08-03 17:59:03 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Take into consideration an accompanying stat. At what distance can you initiate warp? Only so far away...can't...one more meter, can. Now. What kind of (imaginary) tracking/firing tech can overcome the time/space continuum? At which point can a charge in a projectile shell become more powerful than your standard engines, or rival your warp drive?

Or, do you actually see yourselves hitting something all the way across a solar system, as though it's just a table top?


pretty sure that inertia works pretty well in space, so we speak of impulse, don't we?
hitting or not hitting that's another question, that's why i talked about ewar at close range to make hit a target a possible thing
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#20 - 2016-08-03 18:10:45 UTC
Of course the EVE universe doesn't have any "space"....

We have thick, heavy, fluid-filled areas between planets, that cause our ships to stop rapidly as soon as the engine shuts off...

So maybe the ranges we have currently are already insanely physics-defying...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
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