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[New structures] Observatory Arrays and Gates

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Anderson Coop
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#621 - 2016-07-15 04:52:20 UTC
Gankhis Khan wrote:
We haven't heard anything about Observatory Arrays in quite some time now. We were promised these structures with citadels but they were never introduced. The AFK cloaky camping situation needs to be addressed. Being cloaked and hunting targets in a system is one thing, being cloaked and AFK is something else entirely.

Being able to disrupt the operations of an entire null system when you aren't even in front of your computer shouldn't be possible. There is no counter for this whatsoever! This should have been taken care of a long time ago. The fact that people can create this much stress without actively playing, and without any risk to themselves is completely absurd and needs to be dealt with asap!


Were they actually promised to be released at the same time as citadels, or were they just promised at some point after the first citadels, because Citadels iteration hasn't even ended yet, they need to work on finishing moving over existing mechanics to the new system before they come up with new stuff.
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#622 - 2016-07-16 10:42:38 UTC
What about players that cloak up for a 'quick bio', that suddenly turns into a couple hours.

Maybe they cloak up to take a phone-call, and all of a sudden they are in a car racing to an emergency room.

Real-life issues and unforeseen circumstances should not be penalised in game. And if these circumstances were able to be petitioned for reimbursement, i'd imagine it opens a lot of door for abuse.

Is having two clients open, but only looking at one screen also considered AFK?




Annexe

ITAI - VIP

"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"
slumbers
Doomheim
#623 - 2016-07-16 11:14:43 UTC
I dunno whether you should be able to decloak the ship, it would be better for this array to passively gather information about ships in the system. If you stay long enough, it should be able to sniff not only your ship, but your fit too. That will severely limit the amount of time you can stay in a system, and in the event that you really have to go AFK because of RL commitments, you can still do it but everyone in that system will know what you are capable off.

So you got 10 minutes before people get your ship type and 20 before they get your fit. If you move around you can stall the process, Stay idle in a spot and the process will speed up.
H'uLiO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#624 - 2016-07-28 17:18:45 UTC
Any update on this one? Seems that Cloaky AFK Perma Campers will to be very popular thanks to Skill Injectors farming accounts. They just AFK multiple accounts, and farming Skill Injectors in the meantime. No cost at all for them to stay AFK and waiting for few miner to hotdrop at.

Our corp recently have been a victim of these cloaky AFK perma campers for several weeks already.. Some of us just moved to adjacents systems. But some players just stop/quit playing Eve, specially those miners who worked hard to level up the industry system to 5.


CCP please fix this annoying game mechanism.. We deserve a way to counteract their way of "play".

We had many new players came to try Eve with the Wars, Citadel, Skill Injector updates, but we are losing ground with this kind of "game mechanism". Please work on your player retention as well. We hate losing corpmates as much you hate losing players.

Arucark Mamaguevos
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#625 - 2016-07-28 17:25:29 UTC

That new strategies instead of encouraging playfulness discouraged and makes many players leave q q about the response ccp ... OopsOopsOops
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#626 - 2016-07-28 17:26:33 UTC
H'uLiO wrote:
Any update on this one? Seems that Cloaky AFK Perma Campers will to be very popular thanks to Skill Injectors farming accounts. They just AFK multiple accounts, and farming Skill Injectors in the meantime. No cost at all for them to stay AFK and waiting for few miner to hotdrop at.

Our corp recently have been a victim of these cloaky AFK perma campers for several weeks already.. Some of us just moved to adjacents systems. But some players just stop/quit playing Eve, specially those miners who worked hard to level up the industry system to 5.


CCP please fix this annoying game mechanism.. We deserve a way to counteract their way of "play".

We had many new players came to try Eve with the Wars, Citadel, Skill Injector updates, but we are losing ground with this kind of "game mechanism". Please work on your player retention as well. We hate losing corpmates as much you hate losing players.



CCP you need to move on this.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Yamato Iwaira
Perkone
Caldari State
#627 - 2016-07-28 18:11:27 UTC
H'uLiO wrote:
Any update on this one? Seems that Cloaky AFK Perma Campers will to be very popular thanks to Skill Injectors farming accounts. They just AFK multiple accounts, and farming Skill Injectors in the meantime. No cost at all for them to stay AFK and waiting for few miner to hotdrop at.

Our corp recently have been a victim of these cloaky AFK perma campers for several weeks already.. Some of us just moved to adjacents systems. But some players just stop/quit playing Eve, specially those miners who worked hard to level up the industry system to 5.


CCP please fix this annoying game mechanism.. We deserve a way to counteract their way of "play".

We had many new players came to try Eve with the Wars, Citadel, Skill Injector updates, but we are losing ground with this kind of "game mechanism". Please work on your player retention as well. We hate losing corpmates as much you hate losing players.



agree
ALNe Nesterov
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#628 - 2016-07-28 18:14:12 UTC
First, sry for my English :-)

One of the reasons I started to play this game was that I heard in this game every ability have countermeasure, and there is no "the best ship" or "the best tactics" in this game. And mostly it's true, and ccp is doing a great job mostly.
But I was very surprised there is nothing you can do against cloaky campers. This is ridiculous even more since t3 cruiser can be almost uncatchable at the gate.

I don't know for how long campers are almost invincible, for years I'm sure. Finally, CCP announced anti-campers mechanics 1.5 y ago, but no new information about it since then. Maybe ccp should make a poll to ask what players want to get first, and I'm sure those structures will be in top list.
harvested soul
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#629 - 2016-07-28 18:54:48 UTC
H'uLiO wrote:
Any update on this one? Seems that Cloaky AFK Perma Campers will to be very popular thanks to Skill Injectors farming accounts. They just AFK multiple accounts, and farming Skill Injectors in the meantime. No cost at all for them to stay AFK and waiting for few miner to hotdrop at.

Our corp recently have been a victim of these cloaky AFK perma campers for several weeks already.. Some of us just moved to adjacents systems. But some players just stop/quit playing Eve, specially those miners who worked hard to level up the industry system to 5.


CCP please fix this annoying game mechanism.. We deserve a way to counteract their way of "play".

We had many new players came to try Eve with the Wars, Citadel, Skill Injector updates, but we are losing ground with this kind of "game mechanism". Please work on your player retention as well. We hate losing corpmates as much you hate losing players.



it is not possible that CCP has left a ship like the cloaky camper without any weakness , EVE a game of giant risks but without weakness or risk a camper cloak? , CCP PLZ do something
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#630 - 2016-07-28 19:21:10 UTC
I should remind all of you clamoring for the OA so you can rid yourself of AFK cloak camping that there have been strong signals from CCP that with the arrival local will most likely switch over to a delayed chat.

Further, that the OA is going to entail fitting trade offs. You might be able to fit a module to find a cloaking ship, but you'll likely lose some other aspect of intel.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bestia Atura
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#631 - 2016-07-28 19:45:00 UTC
This issue definitely needs to be addressed asap, i have always thought cloacky camping a system to lower indexes even when you are planning a sov attack is a too cheap mechanic, but what is worse, people is abussing it on his vacation time, leaving his accounts AFK cloacky camping systems and connecting only once a day after reboot to relog them in, for what? just to disturb other peopple enjoyment ...

CCP pls, fix this, my propossal would be to make it so that once you cloack you cant stay cloacked for more than XX mins, after that you get fatigue (like the jump one), gets decloacked and cant cloack again until it wears off.

Or do anything else, but do something, game is not at its best in players numbers and it saddens me to see people not logging in discouraged because theres nothing you can do to prevent a single AFK-bored-sad-pathetic guy from lowering the indexes on your beloved system.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#632 - 2016-07-28 19:56:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Bestia Atura wrote:
This issue definitely needs to be addressed asap, i have always thought cloacky camping a system to lower indexes even when you are planning a sov attack is a too cheap mechanic, but what is worse, people is abussing it on his vacation time, leaving his accounts AFK cloacky camping systems and connecting only once a day after reboot to relog them in, for what? just to disturb other peopple enjoyment ...

CCP pls, fix this, my propossal would be to make it so that once you cloack you cant stay cloacked for more than XX mins, after that you get fatigue (like the jump one), gets decloacked and cant cloack again until it wears off.

Or do anything else, but do something, game is not at its best in players numbers and it saddens me to see people not logging in discouraged because theres nothing you can do to prevent a single AFK-bored-sad-pathetic guy from lowering the indexes on your beloved system.


No, AFK cloaking has been around since cloaks have been around. ADMs might be adding to the reasons for AFK cloak camping, but it is not something new.

AFK cloak camping is also tied directly to local, in fact, it only works because of local. Of course, simply removing local is not a good solution either.

So, CCP is likely going to turn local into delayed chat and give us the OA which will allow a number of modules to be fit, one will let you find cloaked ships, hopefully not too easily as cloaking should convey some advantage if you are ATK. But good enough to get rid of AFK cloaking. At the same time the OA will be vulnerable to attack meaning that if you don't defend your stuff and simply turtle up, the next time you undock you'll do it blind.

Careful what you wish for. Twisted

Edit: And please stop appealing to players logged in as an excuse for your personal agenda. It is horrible argument.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bestia Atura
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#633 - 2016-07-28 20:13:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Bestia Atura
Teckos Pech wrote:

No, AFK cloaking has been around since cloaks have been around. ADMs might be adding to the reasons for AFK cloak camping, but it is not something new.

AFK cloak camping is also tied directly to local, in fact, it only works because of local. Of course, simply removing local is not a good solution either.

So, CCP is likely going to turn local into delayed chat and give us the OA which will allow a number of modules to be fit, one will let you find cloaked ships, hopefully not too easily as cloaking should convey some advantage if you are ATK. But good enough to get rid of AFK cloaking. At the same time the OA will be vulnerable to attack meaning that if you don't defend your stuff and simply turtle up, the next time you undock you'll do it blind.

Careful what you wish for. Twisted

Edit: And please stop appealing to players logged in as an excuse for your personal agenda. It is horrible argument.


At no point i have said its something new, but being old doesnt make it any better, as others have said in this thread, its one of few (if not only) game mechanics that have no possible counter, once an AFK camper gets in a system he will only leave when he whishes, no matter what you do, and thats the definition of broken game mechanics.

Regarding your edit about the "horrible argument", well .... its not when the ones not logging in are your friends
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#634 - 2016-07-28 21:05:46 UTC
Bestia Atura wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

No, AFK cloaking has been around since cloaks have been around. ADMs might be adding to the reasons for AFK cloak camping, but it is not something new.

AFK cloak camping is also tied directly to local, in fact, it only works because of local. Of course, simply removing local is not a good solution either.

So, CCP is likely going to turn local into delayed chat and give us the OA which will allow a number of modules to be fit, one will let you find cloaked ships, hopefully not too easily as cloaking should convey some advantage if you are ATK. But good enough to get rid of AFK cloaking. At the same time the OA will be vulnerable to attack meaning that if you don't defend your stuff and simply turtle up, the next time you undock you'll do it blind.

Careful what you wish for. Twisted

Edit: And please stop appealing to players logged in as an excuse for your personal agenda. It is horrible argument.


At no point i have said its something new, but being old doesnt make it any better, as others have said in this thread, its one of few (if not only) game mechanics that have no possible counter, once an AFK camper gets in a system he will only leave when he whishes, no matter what you do, and thats the definition of broken game mechanics.

Regarding your edit about the "horrible argument", well .... its not when the ones not logging in are your friends


Really you can't counter it? At all? Hmmm.....

So if you get 6 guys and go kill anomalies you aren't countering the AFK cloaker and keeping ADMs up? Huh.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
H'uLiO
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#635 - 2016-07-28 22:40:01 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bestia Atura wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

No, AFK cloaking has been around since cloaks have been around. ADMs might be adding to the reasons for AFK cloak camping, but it is not something new.

AFK cloak camping is also tied directly to local, in fact, it only works because of local. Of course, simply removing local is not a good solution either.

So, CCP is likely going to turn local into delayed chat and give us the OA which will allow a number of modules to be fit, one will let you find cloaked ships, hopefully not too easily as cloaking should convey some advantage if you are ATK. But good enough to get rid of AFK cloaking. At the same time the OA will be vulnerable to attack meaning that if you don't defend your stuff and simply turtle up, the next time you undock you'll do it blind.

Careful what you wish for. Twisted

Edit: And please stop appealing to players logged in as an excuse for your personal agenda. It is horrible argument.


At no point i have said its something new, but being old doesnt make it any better, as others have said in this thread, its one of few (if not only) game mechanics that have no possible counter, once an AFK camper gets in a system he will only leave when he whishes, no matter what you do, and thats the definition of broken game mechanics.

Regarding your edit about the "horrible argument", well .... its not when the ones not logging in are your friends


Really you can't counter it? At all? Hmmm.....

So if you get 6 guys and go kill anomalies you aren't countering the AFK cloaker and keeping ADMs up? Huh.



Well, they always have advantages over the denfener. They can gather intel of a possible counter fleet(e.g: from KB), form their fleet with enough time, and choose to attack, hotdrop or keep staying AFK...


Beside all the discussions about how to counter them, why AFK perma camp is "necessary" blah blah blah... To be honest, AFK perma camp game mechanism is boring, doesn't generate much content on Eve(if any). It's even counter-productive, and discourages new players to keep playing..



Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#636 - 2016-07-28 23:11:11 UTC
[quote=H'uLiO]


Well, they always have advantages over the denfener. They can gather intel of a possible counter fleet(e.g: from KB), form their fleet with enough time, and choose to attack, hotdrop or keep staying AFK...
Quote:


That's convenient, you have defined AFK cloaks so that they always win. Heads I win tails you lose. Of course, if they are trying to keep you from acquiring resources and drop ADM levels and you are doing the first and preventing the second that sounds like a counter to me.


[quote]Beside all the discussions about how to counter them, why AFK perma camp is "necessary" blah blah blah... To be honest, AFK perma camp game mechanism is boring, doesn't generate much content on Eve(if any). It's even counter-productive, and discourages new players to keep playing..


Sure is boring, but don't think you are going to get to have your cake and eat it too. Go talk to the strictly HS/non-PvP players. There are a couple of threads now in GD where players are still whining about ganks and war decs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
BLAKE ROTAM
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#637 - 2016-07-29 15:51:37 UTC
im very agree with this guy this is a matther urgent!!!


Yamato Iwaira wrote:
H'uLiO wrote:
Any update on this one? Seems that Cloaky AFK Perma Campers will to be very popular thanks to Skill Injectors farming accounts. They just AFK multiple accounts, and farming Skill Injectors in the meantime. No cost at all for them to stay AFK and waiting for few miner to hotdrop at.

Our corp recently have been a victim of these cloaky AFK perma campers for several weeks already.. Some of us just moved to adjacents systems. But some players just stop/quit playing Eve, specially those miners who worked hard to level up the industry system to 5.


CCP please fix this annoying game mechanism.. We deserve a way to counteract their way of "play".

We had many new players came to try Eve with the Wars, Citadel, Skill Injector updates, but we are losing ground with this kind of "game mechanism". Please work on your player retention as well. We hate losing corpmates as much you hate losing players.



agree
afk phone
Repo Industries
#638 - 2016-07-29 16:06:22 UTC
anti cloaking nullbear whine fest outbreak. Get the devs in here with a can of HTFU to spray these wooosies down.

News Flash - you can rat, do PI and everything else w/ someone cloaked in your system. The only thing a cloaky camper does is remove your personal sense of total security. If that prevents you from undocking..... Motsu has agents that may provide you with entertainment with your needed level of security.


Here's how to fix null:

1. Leave cloaking alone
2. Delay local for at least 5 minutes
3. Watch risk averse sissies flock to the total safety of empire
4. Null reverts back to the wild west it used to be
5. Pew and happiness for those who want it
6. Total safety and risk aversion (in empire) for those who can't provide their own security


OR

1. Remove all cloaks from the game
2. Remove interdiction nullification from the game
3. Remove WCS from the game


TL/DR - you guys crack me up
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#639 - 2016-07-29 19:01:51 UTC
The array may remove intel from the map, so can't see how many active pilots, jumps. npc kils etc. Also It may disrupt d-scan and allow cloaky ships to be spotted.


Now, how can we make it even safer for our null sec dwellers -

I know lets add the ability to nullify warp scramblers that way everyone will be perfectly safe
.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#640 - 2016-07-29 19:11:34 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
The array may remove intel from the map, so can't see how many active pilots, jumps. npc kils etc. Also It may disrupt d-scan and allow cloaky ships to be spotted.


Now, how can we make it even safer for our null sec dwellers -

I know lets add the ability to nullify warp scramblers that way everyone will be perfectly safe
.



First, I'm pretty sure local is going to go. Some intel features on the map might go as well. Also, you won't be able to get all of those features. You'll have to make choices on which modules you fit that will provide you with intel and/or restrict intel that shows up for others. Finally, intel will be moved into something you can blow up (maybe subvert without blowing it up). So in theory you could roll through somebody's space and cripple their intel infrastructure making them blind.

Sounds okay to me.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online