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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#761 - 2016-07-04 02:11:13 UTC
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#762 - 2016-07-04 03:07:24 UTC
Aaron wrote:
Lord Razpataz wrote:
"why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators"

Because they actually are doing just that..

see.. if you check the dev post you can see were they gave me a pat on the back and gave me vague hope my nuts would grow back in some form P


My summary is that many of you want things to be perfectly to your liking, you're all too set in your ways and will never try something different, this applies to miners, haulers and gankers. Come out of your comfort zone. You guys give the designers a headache.


It isn't the designers. It is the people who are subject of such actions. For example, CODE. CODE. probably would not have come about except due to nerfs to ganking. We are talking about a process here. As such it does not sit still. Change something and it in turn with change other things.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#763 - 2016-07-04 03:08:59 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Don't be an ass....they are both creating content. One by being imprudent and thus becoming a target...the other by noting the imprudence and penalizing the player for such actions. You need both.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#764 - 2016-07-04 03:10:22 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !

Was that for me?

If it was.. fyi, most of my previous employers as a merc have been industrialist. Either against a fellow industrialist.. or pvp'rs.
They hire the guys you say is "too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back" to fight for them. Roll

So yes.. your kinda right?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#765 - 2016-07-04 16:25:47 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Ah, the good old "Anyone who likes spaceship fights is ipso facto incapable of creating spaceships" argument. Thanks for making me feel, just for a moment, 10 years younger.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#766 - 2016-07-04 17:24:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Malcanis wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Ah, the good old "Anyone who likes spaceship fights is ipso facto incapable of creating spaceships" argument. Thanks for making me feel, just for a moment, 10 years younger.
Didn't you know that highsec PvPers are utterly incapable of mining, using the industry UI or anything else that doesn't involve camping the hubs or blobbing helpless ships in highsec?

Roll

edit: for those that have trouble with distinguishing between sarcasm and idiocy, that was sarcasm.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Valkin Mordirc
#767 - 2016-07-05 01:28:24 UTC
Giaus Felix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Ah, the good old "Anyone who likes spaceship fights is ipso facto incapable of creating spaceships" argument. Thanks for making me feel, just for a moment, 10 years younger.
Didn't you know that highsec PvPers are utterly incapable of mining, using the industry UI or anything else that doesn't involve camping the hubs or blobbing helpless ships in highsec?

Roll

edit: for those that have trouble with distinguishing between sarcasm and idiocy, that was sarcasm.



Actually as a Highsec wardeccer I once tried to make my own Nanite production.


It did not.Lol
#DeleteTheWeak
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#768 - 2016-07-05 05:40:32 UTC
Giaus Felix wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Ah, the good old "Anyone who likes spaceship fights is ipso facto incapable of creating spaceships" argument. Thanks for making me feel, just for a moment, 10 years younger.
Didn't you know that highsec PvPers are utterly incapable of mining, using the industry UI or anything else that doesn't involve camping the hubs or blobbing helpless ships in highsec?

Roll

edit: for those that have trouble with distinguishing between sarcasm and idiocy, that was sarcasm.


Unlike some (e.g. Dracvlad) I got the sarcasm....we aren't all complete dim bulbs.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#769 - 2016-07-06 20:11:42 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Don't be an ass....they are both creating content. One by being imprudent and thus becoming a target...the other by noting the imprudence and penalizing the player for such actions. You need both.


The OP made an absurd statement and I made one counter to its absurdity, seems fair to me.

While industrialists can create highsec content: mining, building and hauling things WITHOUT needing gankers. If all the industrialists left highsec the gankers could not gank non-existant industrialists. So, the OP's suggestion that highsec content creation is dependent on the Pew, Pew crowd is 100% backwards.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#770 - 2016-07-06 20:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Don't be an ass....they are both creating content. One by being imprudent and thus becoming a target...the other by noting the imprudence and penalizing the player for such actions. You need both.


The OP made an absurd statement and I made one counter to its absurdity, seems fair to me.

While industrialists can create highsec content: mining, building and hauling things WITHOUT needing gankers. If all the industrialists left highsec the gankers could not gank non-existant industrialists. So, the OP's suggestion that highsec content creation is dependent on the Pew, Pew crowd is 100% backwards.

So who are all these industrialists going to sell their wares to if stuff doesn't explode?

Industry is dependent on pewpew for demand, pewpew is dependent on industry to build stuff that they can explode; both are dependent on people doing stupid stuff that ends in explosions.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#771 - 2016-07-08 20:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Don't be an ass....they are both creating content. One by being imprudent and thus becoming a target...the other by noting the imprudence and penalizing the player for such actions. You need both.


The OP made an absurd statement and I made one counter to its absurdity, seems fair to me.

While industrialists can create highsec content: mining, building and hauling things WITHOUT needing gankers. If all the industrialists left highsec the gankers could not gank non-existant industrialists. So, the OP's suggestion that highsec content creation is dependent on the Pew, Pew crowd is 100% backwards.




Across my accounts I have ~30M SP in industry, mining, research & and production

I have a pretty decent BPO collection too; subcap hulls, mods, T2 comps. Hardly complete, I admit, but easily enough to survive on.

I'll be OK when you "industrialists" all quit.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#772 - 2016-07-08 20:36:11 UTC
I'm late to the party, but it's nice to see 39 pages of ego.

"industry/isk making is the heart of HS, no one would have targets without us!"

"shutup noob, us gankers are l33t 4 lyfe"

Good lord the ego on people in this game. Stop complaining and chest thumping all around and just do what you enjoy (unless that IS complaining and chest thumping, then carry on, I guess)
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#773 - 2016-07-08 20:43:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
You are seriously mistaken about which players are creating highsec content. Exactly whom would you be blowing up if all the industrialists left EVE..... nobody. You are far too much of a coward to attack a ship that can fight back so.....

It is we industrialists and not you that are creating 'ganking' opportunities in highsec.

P.S. You're welcome you !


Don't be an ass....they are both creating content. One by being imprudent and thus becoming a target...the other by noting the imprudence and penalizing the player for such actions. You need both.


The OP made an absurd statement and I made one counter to its absurdity, seems fair to me.

While industrialists can create highsec content: mining, building and hauling things WITHOUT needing gankers. If all the industrialists left highsec the gankers could not gank non-existant industrialists. So, the OP's suggestion that highsec content creation is dependent on the Pew, Pew crowd is 100% backwards.




Across my accounts I have ~30M SP in industry, mining, research & and production

I have a pretty decent BPO collection too; subcap hulls, mods, T2 comps. Hardly complete, I admit, but easily enough to survive on.

I'll be OK when you "industrialists" all quit.



Agreed. You indy types might want to refrain from making the either-or fallacy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#774 - 2016-07-08 20:51:39 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
I'm late to the party, but it's nice to see 39 pages of ego.

"industry/isk making is the heart of HS, no one would have targets without us!"

"shutup noob, us gankers are l33t 4 lyfe"

Good lord the ego on people in this game. Stop complaining and chest thumping all around and just do what you enjoy (unless that IS complaining and chest thumping, then carry on, I guess)


How about, shut up, I do both PvP and industry and if industrial only types quit it will be good for me as I'll have less competition.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#775 - 2016-07-08 22:16:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:

How about, shut up, I do both PvP and industry and if industrial only types quit it will be good for me as I'll have less competition.

And this right here is the real problem.
The toxic attitude of 'You don't speak/play the way I want you to so quit already".
Rather than trying to create a system where everyone feels equally valued by the game culture and the game systems/developers you are continually pushing an antagonistic agenda that is all about the PvP'ers. Sure PvP'ers might do other things too, but it's constantly about demeaning anyone who doesn't.

And that is where the real problem lies.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#776 - 2016-07-08 23:02:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
And this right here is the real problem.
The toxic attitude of 'You don't speak/play the way I want you to so quit already".
Rather than trying to create a system where everyone feels equally valued by the game culture and the game systems/developers you are continually pushing an antagonistic agenda that is all about the PvP'ers. Sure PvP'ers might do other things too, but it's constantly about demeaning anyone who doesn't.

And that is where the real problem lies.


I took Teckos's reply as tongue in cheek, honestly. I'd be very surprised if it was serious, but who knows. I'm sure though that there are a lot of people who would say that seriously, which is a problem.

Take myself, I "hate" HS gankers. I personally don't get the attraction of the playstyle so I enjoy hating them, calling them carebears/etc., making fun of them. That being said, this is a sandbox, and they are awesome people for using a sandbox game in a way they love. It and they add a lot to the game. Even though its a playstyle I will never do and never understand, I'd fight tooth and nail to keep it in the game if CCP ever tried to axe it.. Until we can actually appreciate parts of the game we personally don't enjoy(even if its loving to hate certain people, which is enormously fun) arguments like this thread will always exist.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#777 - 2016-07-08 23:55:44 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

How about, shut up, I do both PvP and industry and if industrial only types quit it will be good for me as I'll have less competition.

And this right here is the real problem.
The toxic attitude of 'You don't speak/play the way I want you to so quit already".
Rather than trying to create a system where everyone feels equally valued by the game culture and the game systems/developers you are continually pushing an antagonistic agenda that is all about the PvP'ers. Sure PvP'ers might do other things too, but it's constantly about demeaning anyone who doesn't.

And that is where the real problem lies.


It is in response to the, "You better value us, we provide you ships!" True, but at a price. Don't expect any goddamn gratitude beyond that. You got your ISK now go enjoy it. Stop acting like you just did us a favor. And I don't care what people do in the game, however, if you stumble into the wrong situation...yeah I might shoot your stuff. Learn to deal with it. If you don't want to shoot back, learn to avoid those situations. But above all don't come here whining about to get treated as a delicate little flower.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#778 - 2016-07-09 00:09:18 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


Take myself, I "hate" HS gankers. I personally don't get the attraction of the playstyle so I enjoy hating them, calling them carebears/etc., making fun of them. That being said, this is a sandbox, and they are awesome people for using a sandbox game in a way they love. It and they add a lot to the game. Even though its a playstyle I will never do and never understand, I'd fight tooth and nail to keep it in the game if CCP ever tried to axe it.. Until we can actually appreciate parts of the game we personally don't enjoy(even if its loving to hate certain people, which is enormously fun) arguments like this thread will always exist.


Pretty much (and by hate, I am assuming it is just an in game thing, not a RL thing). I actually have ganked, and it is fun to be on comms, and seeing if your prey will pop or not or even get away. And on the flip side you will almost surely never see me with an AG group (the white knight variety saving random people). Will I heap scorn on them in game? Sure. Will I shoot them if I can? Sure. Will they pop me? Of course. All part of the game and they are doing what they consider fun (I hope). Same thing with scammers...I don't like them, don't plan on ever doing scams, but I think they are an interesting part of the game. And while I personally do not plan on scamming, reading about some of the more clever scams has been enjoyable. And if you want to be a dedicated industry/mining guy...fine. But you are making choices and in a game like this those choices will have ramifications. Do not come here and ask to be shielded from those ramifications.

The very thing that makes this game so interesting is that there are so many different types of players interacting and sometimes creating (often inadvertently) really amazing things such as huge battles, long drawn out wars, unbelievable scams, and so forth.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#779 - 2016-07-09 00:13:36 UTC
Please, for all that is merciful, please follow our rules. It makes everyone happy and it keeps the nonsense out (mostly).

A reminder...

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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#780 - 2016-07-09 02:35:14 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Rather than trying to create a system where everyone feels equally valued by the game culture and the game systems/developers you are continually pushing an antagonistic agenda that is all about the PvP'ers. Sure PvP'ers might do other things too, but it's constantly about demeaning anyone who doesn't.

And that is where the real problem lies.

Like PVEers only ever express respect, love and a feeling of inclusion of PVPers.

Sure.

The tension between different professions is part of Eve and will never change because through it's depth and availability of tools for all different types of play, the game attracts both city builder gamers and pvpers. That's just Eve.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."