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[118.6] Serpentis Capitals

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Cade Windstalker
#101 - 2016-06-29 14:52:12 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
As far I can see, the webber bonus is NOT for Heavy Stasis Grapplers? Right?


That is correct. Stasis Grapplers are not Stasis Webbifiers and therefore don't get the bonus.

Also that would result, at close ranges, in a Web effect of over 100% strength which would probably cause velocity to loop around and the ship to shoot off at 2147483647 m/s Lol
Blood ofGODS
Relentless Destruction
Immediate Destruction
#102 - 2016-06-29 17:20:04 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Also you just poked a hole in your own argument. Better in most ways. Someone will use it, either because they have a use for it or because they have more ISK than they know what to do with. In either case, arguing that these things cost too much for anyone to ever use is ridiculous. I give it less than six months before we've got at least one of these Dreads dead on a KB somewhere, and less than a year for the Titan at least showing up on a KB.


Stop being such a forum warrior and actually play the game. You literally have no idea what you're talking about. The dreads are garbage. 45B isk moros that has 30% more ehp, 12.5% more damage, and 90% web. Or you could, oh I don't know, buy another character and another dread for that price, and dual box dreads, and be more effective in every way. Or you could by 2 supercarriers and be more effective in every way.

In fact, THE ONLY advantages dreads have over supercarriers are that they are cheaper (most of it) and the dps isn't shut down by shooting fighters.

With the Vehemoth, not only do you lose the #1 advantage dreads have over supercarriers, but you lose it by such a ridiculous margin people could suicide a supercarrier into your dread, kill it, and die, and be 70% isk efficient.

Just get a super, have 7-10x more ehp, 2-3x more damage, not be stuck in siege, needs a hic to be caught in lowsec, etc., for half the price
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#103 - 2016-06-29 17:39:28 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Ele Rebellion wrote:
Are we only getting these three or will there be a carrier to come later?

Just these three.

What?
I can kinda understand not doing faction variants of the brand new FAX machines, but why no carrier?
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-06-29 23:26:28 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
HandelsPharmi wrote:
As far I can see, the webber bonus is NOT for Heavy Stasis Grapplers? Right?


That is correct. Stasis Grapplers are not Stasis Webbifiers and therefore don't get the bonus.

Also that would result, at close ranges, in a Web effect of over 100% strength which would probably cause velocity to loop around and the ship to shoot off at 2147483647 m/s Lol


In other words, Vehement is the big brother to this fitting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMl9Xp4h-Fo&list=LLtUE9ceRWec_4PC-3c1BbQA&index=2

Dual Web Scram Paint with Armor Tanking to brawl like a God with High Angle Weapons.
Valorex1
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2016-06-30 00:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Valorex1
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
HandelsPharmi wrote:
As far I can see, the webber bonus is NOT for Heavy Stasis Grapplers? Right?


That is correct. Stasis Grapplers are not Stasis Webbifiers and therefore don't get the bonus.

Also that would result, at close ranges, in a Web effect of over 100% strength which would probably cause velocity to loop around and the ship to shoot off at 2147483647 m/s Lol


In other words, Vehement is the big brother to this fitting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMl9Xp4h-Fo&list=LLtUE9ceRWec_4PC-3c1BbQA&index=2

Dual Web Scram Paint with Armor Tanking to brawl like a God with High Angle Weapons.


With a 50b build cost when you can just be counter dropped by sc's is just dumb. Even if in a wh with it you're still just dumb as its just going to be neuted out and a free km for the attackers. Current dreads are disposable this isn't, an sc compared to this is disposable. Go buy an sc and get 10x's the bang for the isk. If this could solo 2-3 sc's now this would make it a sought ship just my opinion. Im sure their are those who will argue that its a mean brawler. But where can you brawl with this without the risk of being countered by 10+ sc's. Only in a wh can you do this and in a wh this is a useless ship to bring to grid as the attackers will bring ranged ships like arty sleips. It doesnt matter if you can do 50k dps. If you can't apply it you're just a km waiting it's turn to be generated. Im directly talking about the serpentis dread. Way to much isk/risk to justify the cost of this ship.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#106 - 2016-06-30 01:18:48 UTC
To justify the price tag on a pure prestige basis, these ships need a unique model.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Cade Windstalker
#107 - 2016-06-30 01:56:29 UTC
If you all don't think this is worth the price tag then... don't fly them? People said the same thing about the Revenant and it still took less than six months for someone to pop one, let alone build one.

Not everything in the game needs to be widely used or clearly cost efficient, some things are just giant ISK pinatas. Case and point, Officer Mods.
Valorex1
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#108 - 2016-06-30 02:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Valorex1
Cade Windstalker wrote:
If you all don't think this is worth the price tag then... don't fly them? People said the same thing about the Revenant and it still took less than six months for someone to pop one, let alone build one.

Not everything in the game needs to be widely used or clearly cost efficient, some things are just giant ISK pinatas. Case and point, Officer Mods.


I take that it's more of bragging rights to have one but conpared to the revenant it cant stand up at all. The sc has one thing this ship doesnt it can apply massive dps at long distances. This dread can't. You drop this in field and you're either getting countered by more dreads,sc,or titans. As for the price difference on the 2 ships the revenant i agree with as the bpc is rare to obtain. You're talking about a dread bpc that can be farmed therfore competition will be extremely high. The buyers can literally force the cost of these so low that it isnt worth building for the measly 6b or so in profits you'll make. I can build a titan for right at 57b and flip it for 95-110b. The build time will roughly be the same on parts but only a difference in time to build a hull. But sonce its seeded by npc availability of the bpc will go up cost to produce versus profits will suck. Youre better off building citadels. If it had its own new killer model then it could sway a bit more to the cost of things. As of now they took a preexisting model, added a ship skin and changed it's bonuses. Hardly worth ccp saying take a look at these awesome new capitals that we didnt put a lot of thought into and let's just change bonuses and make them cost 50b.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#109 - 2016-06-30 02:41:53 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
If you all don't think this is worth the price tag then... don't fly them? People said the same thing about the Revenant and it still took less than six months for someone to pop one, let alone build one.

Not everything in the game needs to be widely used or clearly cost efficient, some things are just giant ISK pinatas. Case and point, Officer Mods.


I think you are missing the point
Cade Windstalker
#110 - 2016-06-30 03:15:19 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
I think you are missing the point


If you feel I'm missing the point then you're free to attempt to clarify, personally though all I'm seeing is a lot of people complaining that they don't feel this would be cost efficient to field, which is kind of exactly the point.

Valorex1 wrote:
I take that it's more of bragging rights to have one but conpared to the revenant it cant stand up at all. The sc has one thing this ship doesnt it can apply massive dps at long distances. This dread can't. You drop this in field and you're either getting countered by more dreads,sc,or titans. As for the price difference on the 2 ships the revenant i agree with as the bpc is rare to obtain. You're talking about a dread bpc that can be farmed therfore competition will be extremely high. The buyers can literally force the cost of these so low that it isnt worth building for the measly 6b or so in profits you'll make. I can build a titan for right at 57b and flip it for 95-110b. The build time will roughly be the same on parts but only a difference in time to build a hull. But sonce its seeded by npc availability of the bpc will go up cost to produce versus profits will suck. Youre better off building citadels. If it had its own new killer model then it could sway a bit more to the cost of things. As of now they took a preexisting model, added a ship skin and changed it's bonuses. Hardly worth ccp saying take a look at these awesome new capitals that we didnt put a lot of thought into and let's just change bonuses and make them cost 50b.


I doubt we'll ever see people making these things the same way people build current Dreads, but I can totally see an enterprising person taking advantage of exactly the issues you're bringing up here to basically set the price on a constructed one of these to a rich buyer, or just flat out charging to build it.

Either way all I'm seeing here is reasons you think someone else probably won't want one of these, and why you would never build one just to sell. None of that is really an argument against the cost of these things.
Valorex1
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#111 - 2016-06-30 08:44:26 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
I think you are missing the point


If you feel I'm missing the point then you're free to attempt to clarify, personally though all I'm seeing is a lot of people complaining that they don't feel this would be cost efficient to field, which is kind of exactly the point.

Valorex1 wrote:
I take that it's more of bragging rights to have one but conpared to the revenant it cant stand up at all. The sc has one thing this ship doesnt it can apply massive dps at long distances. This dread can't. You drop this in field and you're either getting countered by more dreads,sc,or titans. As for the price difference on the 2 ships the revenant i agree with as the bpc is rare to obtain. You're talking about a dread bpc that can be farmed therfore competition will be extremely high. The buyers can literally force the cost of these so low that it isnt worth building for the measly 6b or so in profits you'll make. I can build a titan for right at 57b and flip it for 95-110b. The build time will roughly be the same on parts but only a difference in time to build a hull. But sonce its seeded by npc availability of the bpc will go up cost to produce versus profits will suck. Youre better off building citadels. If it had its own new killer model then it could sway a bit more to the cost of things. As of now they took a preexisting model, added a ship skin and changed it's bonuses. Hardly worth ccp saying take a look at these awesome new capitals that we didnt put a lot of thought into and let's just change bonuses and make them cost 50b.


I doubt we'll ever see people making these things the same way people build current Dreads, but I can totally see an enterprising person taking advantage of exactly the issues you're bringing up here to basically set the price on a constructed one of these to a rich buyer, or just flat out charging to build it.

Either way all I'm seeing here is reasons you think someone else probably won't want one of these, and why you would never build one just to sell. None of that is really an argument against the cost of these things.


All I'm really saying is for cost to obtain it's rather disappointing that we didn't get a new ship model to go with it.
Cade Windstalker
#112 - 2016-06-30 13:38:03 UTC
Valorex1 wrote:
All I'm really saying is for cost to obtain it's rather disappointing that we didn't get a new ship model to go with it.


Serpentis don't really do new hulls though. All of their other ships don't have unique hulls so why would these?

Also from a dev standpoint it makes the investment threshold low if CCP have to radically change things or even remote the ships for some reason.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#113 - 2016-06-30 13:51:33 UTC
Valorex1 wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
I think you are missing the point


If you feel I'm missing the point then you're free to attempt to clarify, personally though all I'm seeing is a lot of people complaining that they don't feel this would be cost efficient to field, which is kind of exactly the point.

Valorex1 wrote:
I take that it's more of bragging rights to have one but conpared to the revenant it cant stand up at all. The sc has one thing this ship doesnt it can apply massive dps at long distances. This dread can't. You drop this in field and you're either getting countered by more dreads,sc,or titans. As for the price difference on the 2 ships the revenant i agree with as the bpc is rare to obtain. You're talking about a dread bpc that can be farmed therfore competition will be extremely high. The buyers can literally force the cost of these so low that it isnt worth building for the measly 6b or so in profits you'll make. I can build a titan for right at 57b and flip it for 95-110b. The build time will roughly be the same on parts but only a difference in time to build a hull. But sonce its seeded by npc availability of the bpc will go up cost to produce versus profits will suck. Youre better off building citadels. If it had its own new killer model then it could sway a bit more to the cost of things. As of now they took a preexisting model, added a ship skin and changed it's bonuses. Hardly worth ccp saying take a look at these awesome new capitals that we didnt put a lot of thought into and let's just change bonuses and make them cost 50b.


I doubt we'll ever see people making these things the same way people build current Dreads, but I can totally see an enterprising person taking advantage of exactly the issues you're bringing up here to basically set the price on a constructed one of these to a rich buyer, or just flat out charging to build it.

Either way all I'm seeing here is reasons you think someone else probably won't want one of these, and why you would never build one just to sell. None of that is really an argument against the cost of these things.


All I'm really saying is for cost to obtain it's rather disappointing that we didn't get a new ship model to go with it.


The Angels keep the pretty ship designs to themselves Blink

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
viverxia
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2016-06-30 22:35:24 UTC
I wasn't expecting new ship designs for serpentis.
Fully expecting the Gurtisa capitals to be stolen caldari hulls as well (CCPlease make it a carrier not a dread for them..)

Excited to see what we get from the nations that don't use standard hulls, Sansha/Angels/BR for sure.
Balanced legion they already showed off the concept for their dread (which looks awesome)
Cade Windstalker
#115 - 2016-07-01 15:12:12 UTC
viverxia wrote:
I wasn't expecting new ship designs for serpentis.
Fully expecting the Gurtisa capitals to be stolen caldari hulls as well (CCPlease make it a carrier not a dread for them..)

Excited to see what we get from the nations that don't use standard hulls, Sansha/Angels/BR for sure.
Balanced legion they already showed off the concept for their dread (which looks awesome)


If the Guristas don't get a Carrier I will eat someone's socks. That would be like the Gallente Carriers not being able to use Fighters and getting 20 BS guns instead...

Also with the Bloodraiders, only the Cruiser and Frigate have unique models, not the Bhaalgorn which is just a reskinned Armageddon, so it's not entirely clear what's going to happen there. Personally I kind of hope the Bhaal gets a remodel, but that's me. I'm always happy for more ship porn :P
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2016-07-05 04:34:06 UTC
I do not know if anyone has asked yet, so I will:

CCP, once the Shadow of Serpents event is complete, what means will be introduced for the acquisition of new Serpentis capital ship blueprints? Will they be exclusives to Serpentis Loyalty Points stores, or will there be some plan for there to be drops of Capital Ship blueprint copies from destroyed Capital Ships, just as is normally done with Sansha Nation Supercarriers in the Incursions?
Cade Windstalker
#117 - 2016-07-05 14:29:36 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
I do not know if anyone has asked yet, so I will:

CCP, once the Shadow of Serpents event is complete, what means will be introduced for the acquisition of new Serpentis capital ship blueprints? Will they be exclusives to Serpentis Loyalty Points stores, or will there be some plan for there to be drops of Capital Ship blueprint copies from destroyed Capital Ships, just as is normally done with Sansha Nation Supercarriers in the Incursions?


They've at least confirmed that they'll be available from the Serpentis LP Store, I don't think we've heard an explicit statement on whether or not they'll drop from sites.
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#118 - 2016-07-05 15:19:21 UTC
Spotted the bpc's in play today for the dread.

Not real sure who you guys are aiming this thing at.

Base build cost is 20* that of a normal dread, throw in the extra stuff in there and your looking at 50 bil for something that could be used but wont. Putting such a high price tag on the production means we will be left with tons of cheap bpcs when everyone scratches their head as to why they wont sell.

I mean, players are buying the implant that gives 10,800 sp, and paying around 200 mil for it.. Okay guys with 200 mil might be idiots. But will players burn 50 bil on this item, it would be nice if it was something regular players would use.

If it could enter highsec (through gates) then I would see that value being quite useful, but I have to wonder what CCP is smoking to release such a thing at such a price range.

As it looks like, I rekon the majority that are built will never undock - and that is a shame. Cost of 4-5x basic variant seems like it would be better. High enough to not be common, low enough for people to use, High enough for someone to feel its worth wasting resources on killing, low enough that people actually see them and have the chance!
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2016-07-05 23:04:25 UTC
DeODokktor wrote:
Spotted the bpc's in play today for the dread.

Not real sure who you guys are aiming this thing at.

Base build cost is 20* that of a normal dread, throw in the extra stuff in there and your looking at 50 bil for something that could be used but wont. Putting such a high price tag on the production means we will be left with tons of cheap bpcs when everyone scratches their head as to why they wont sell.

I mean, players are buying the implant that gives 10,800 sp, and paying around 200 mil for it.. Okay guys with 200 mil might be idiots. But will players burn 50 bil on this item, it would be nice if it was something regular players would use.

If it could enter highsec (through gates) then I would see that value being quite useful, but I have to wonder what CCP is smoking to release such a thing at such a price range.

As it looks like, I rekon the majority that are built will never undock - and that is a shame. Cost of 4-5x basic variant seems like it would be better. High enough to not be common, low enough for people to use, High enough for someone to feel its worth wasting resources on killing, low enough that people actually see them and have the chance!


I imagine that Vehements would be the main command ship for moderate-sized fleets (I'm judging big fleets by B-R5RB), with plenty of support to keep them alive while they rain down the heavy weapons fire on anything unfortunate enough to be caught in their webs.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#120 - 2016-07-06 01:33:04 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:


I imagine that Vehements would be the main command ship for moderate-sized fleets (I'm judging big fleets by B-R5RB), with plenty of support to keep them alive while they rain down the heavy weapons fire on anything unfortunate enough to be caught in their webs.


I have a feeling you dont pvp
You cant keep sieged dreads alive Lol

Its hardly better than a moros. 300-500 more dps than a moros with high angles, MAYBE. One additional mid for either a web that would be better suited for another ship or making its tank more viable in comparison to a nag or phoenix.

its trash dude, esp for 40b