These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[118.6] Serpentis Capitals

First post First post First post
Author
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#81 - 2016-06-27 19:04:29 UTC
Muffinmixer wrote:
Will you implement an LP tax to make the BPCs easier to obtain? As in, not just a multi-month farming ordeal for a single individual pilot that has to make 10+ mil LP to afford the BPC?...


Nobody said that they will be easy to obtain.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Cade Windstalker
#82 - 2016-06-27 19:22:24 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Muffinmixer wrote:
Will you implement an LP tax to make the BPCs easier to obtain? As in, not just a multi-month farming ordeal for a single individual pilot that has to make 10+ mil LP to afford the BPC?...


Nobody said that they will be easy to obtain.


(Warning, link goes to a video)

Actually CCP did, on the last episode of the o7 show and in the blog post for the upcoming Event.

The cost of these things isn't in the BPC, it's in all of the stuff you need to pile together to make one.
Muffinmixer
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2016-06-27 21:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Muffinmixer
Cade Windstalker wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Muffinmixer wrote:
Will you implement an LP tax to make the BPCs easier to obtain? As in, not just a multi-month farming ordeal for a single individual pilot that has to make 10+ mil LP to afford the BPC?...


Nobody said that they will be easy to obtain.


(Warning, link goes to a video)

Actually CCP did, on the last episode of the o7 show and in the blog post for the upcoming Event.

The cost of these things isn't in the BPC, it's in all of the stuff you need to pile together to make one.


Why should I bother when I have tasty implants worth 2.3-2.5k isk per LP available on the store instead? Those always sell, and I can buy quite a few after an evening of running Anomic missions
Cade Windstalker
#84 - 2016-06-27 22:14:23 UTC
Muffinmixer wrote:
Why should I bother when I have tasty implants worth 2.3-2.5k isk per LP available on the store instead? Those always sell, and I can buy quite a few after an evening of running Anomic missions


I don't think I said anything about the ISK/LP value of the BPCs, or even that they'd be terribly expensive.

Given that they're going to be handing out a ton of these BPCs through the upcoming event I'm going to go out on a *really* short limb here and say that these Blueprints (at least the ones for the Dread) aren't going to be worth buying off the LP store for quite a while after release due to a glut of supply compared to fairly limited demand.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#85 - 2016-06-28 01:40:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Shard
Whats up with the production cost on the dreadnought?

30-40b? You could buy a super for that money and be ten times more effective.
And its still outclassed by a nag or phoenix.

Consider 2 or 3 times the mats for a moros, please.
Cade Windstalker
#86 - 2016-06-28 14:51:30 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Whats up with the production cost on the dreadnought?

30-40b? You could buy a super for that money and be ten times more effective.
And its still outclassed by a nag or phoenix.

Consider 2 or 3 times the mats for a moros, please.


These aren't intended to be cost-effective or in common use...
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2016-06-28 15:21:13 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Lt Shard wrote:
Whats up with the production cost on the dreadnought?

30-40b? You could buy a super for that money and be ten times more effective.
And its still outclassed by a nag or phoenix.

Consider 2 or 3 times the mats for a moros, please.


These aren't intended to be cost-effective or in common use...


That's not an excuse though for frankly rediculous costs, thats like if CCP made a ship that had a really cool ship model but **** stats and then backed up the reason for making it with "We thought it's cool, it's not even intended for common use". There isn't a point to making something if you fully expect it to never have an "effective" (key word their) use.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#88 - 2016-06-28 19:17:10 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
These aren't intended to be cost-effective or in common use...


Yeah, introducing ships no one will used because they cost far too much are are outright worse then current ships of its class is a good idea. Lol
Cade Windstalker
#89 - 2016-06-28 19:37:20 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
That's not an excuse though for frankly rediculous costs, thats like if CCP made a ship that had a really cool ship model but **** stats and then backed up the reason for making it with "We thought it's cool, it's not even intended for common use". There isn't a point to making something if you fully expect it to never have an "effective" (key word their) use.


Cost is not a balance parameter. When CCP originally introduced Titans they figured there might be 3-4 of them in the game at one time at most. We can see how that worked out.

That's why I said these aren't cost-effective, not that they wouldn't be effective at all. If you bring an equal number of these ships vs an enemy fielding regular Caps you'll likely kick their teeth in.

Lt Shard wrote:
Yeah, introducing ships no one will used because they cost far too much are are outright worse then current ships of its class is a good idea. Lol


These ships are pretty much outright better than their Gallente counterparts so I'm really not sure what you're on about...
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#90 - 2016-06-28 21:20:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Shard
Cade Windstalker wrote:
These ships are pretty much outright better than their Gallente counterparts so I'm really not sure what you're on about...


The moros is in a bad position in the meta right now. A small bit of dps and web bonus isnt really going to help it.

The phoenix and the nag outclass the other two in every regard.

And **** fielding a fleet of vehement just uses Nyxs at that point
Cade Windstalker
#91 - 2016-06-28 22:33:52 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
These ships are pretty much outright better than their Gallente counterparts so I'm really not sure what you're on about...


The moros is in a bad position in the meta right now. A small bit of dps and web bonus isnt really going to help it.

The phoenix and the nag outclass the other two in every regard.

And **** fielding a fleet of vehement just uses Nyxs at that point


Key words "right now". The Moros was top of the heap for a long while, I'm sure it'll come around sooner or later.

Plus people in WHs with more Isk than they know what to do with (literally, I know some of these people) will grab these things just to kill Sleepers faster or win hole-fights with one less Dread needed.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#92 - 2016-06-28 23:36:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Shard
Cade Windstalker wrote:
win hole-fights with one less Dread needed.


Lmao no

Why would they / I use it over something that requires absolutely no cap to run its tank and guns
Also cap escalations are dead.
Blood ofGODS
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#93 - 2016-06-28 23:47:24 UTC
Lt Shard wrote:
Whats up with the production cost on the dreadnought?

30-40b? You could buy a super for that money and be ten times more effective.
And its still outclassed by a nag or phoenix.

Consider 2 or 3 times the mats for a moros, please.


This. 100%. What the heck CCP. It takes 30-40b to build it (lets say 40b for easy rounding because of the new serpentis parts), and at least 5b to fit it nicely. In the end, you're looking at a Moros that costs 45b isk that does a whopping 12.5% more damage and around 30-40% more EHP with 1 extra mid to fit a vindi web.

You're stuck in siege for 5 minutes. Someone drops 3 dreads/1 super minimum and you go in a glorious ball of fire before you exit siege.

For that price, you can literally buy and fit 2 supercarriers (assuming 18.5b for hull/rigs, I've seen on forums) and cheap ish 4b fits. Each super gets 7-10x more ehp, 2-3x the damage, isn't stuck in siege for 5 minutes, a lot harder to catch in lowsec, and can receive reps.

Why not make the build cost something like 6-7b? That would be 4x as much as the standard moros, which is the current theme with the other capitals (4x their t1 equivalent, or so), and would make a fully fitted one somewhere around 10-11b, which would be about twice as much as a well fit out moros, running 5.5b, making it worth it, in a way.
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2016-06-29 01:02:04 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
That's not an excuse though for frankly rediculous costs, thats like if CCP made a ship that had a really cool ship model but **** stats and then backed up the reason for making it with "We thought it's cool, it's not even intended for common use". There isn't a point to making something if you fully expect it to never have an "effective" (key word their) use.


Cost is not a balance parameter. When CCP originally introduced Titans they figured there might be 3-4 of them in the game at one time at most. We can see how that worked out.

That's why I said these aren't cost-effective, not that they wouldn't be effective at all. If you bring an equal number of these ships vs an enemy fielding regular Caps you'll likely kick their teeth in.


I mean, you can completely deadspace fit a t1 cruiser and it might perform the same as a battleship, except it'll be 4 times the cost as the battleship and there'll be no reason to use it. Granted, there's no reason not to use it as the only thing against it is that it's not "cost effective" but people still aren't going to shell out for it when you can buy a standard battleship.

That is the point I am getting at. There is an alternative ship you can use (supercarrier) which performs much better in most ways for less cost. The "cost is not a factor" argument works only may I repeat only if there is not a better alternative for the same price.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Cade Windstalker
#95 - 2016-06-29 01:58:33 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
I mean, you can completely deadspace fit a t1 cruiser and it might perform the same as a battleship, except it'll be 4 times the cost as the battleship and there'll be no reason to use it. Granted, there's no reason not to use it as the only thing against it is that it's not "cost effective" but people still aren't going to shell out for it when you can buy a standard battleship.

That is the point I am getting at. There is an alternative ship you can use (supercarrier) which performs much better in most ways for less cost. The "cost is not a factor" argument works only may I repeat only if there is not a better alternative for the same price.


And yet if you look around at the Killboards you'll find people flying Officer fit Battleships, sometimes more than one in a month. After a certain point in this game people just stop caring how much stuff costs.

Also you just poked a hole in your own argument. Better in most ways. Someone will use it, either because they have a use for it or because they have more ISK than they know what to do with. In either case, arguing that these things cost too much for anyone to ever use is ridiculous. I give it less than six months before we've got at least one of these Dreads dead on a KB somewhere, and less than a year for the Titan at least showing up on a KB.
Lt Shard
Team Pizza
Good at this Game
#96 - 2016-06-29 02:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Shard
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Better in most ways


Oh shut up.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2016-06-29 04:41:36 UTC
Cost is not a balancing factor, but it is a proliferation factor. Nullsec is already rolling in ISK, and if a Serp dread cost "only" 4x the amount the normal one did, you'd see them everywhere right quick. There'd be at least one in any fleet battle.

Even if you can make an argument about another capital ship's price, there are people that just aren't interested in flying those other capital ships. They have their dread, they trained for their dread, they like their dread, they want this awesome dread, and for prestige purposes they will have this awesome dread.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#98 - 2016-06-29 12:12:57 UTC
As far I can see, the webber bonus is NOT for Heavy Stasis Grapplers? Right?
Valorex1
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#99 - 2016-06-29 13:31:45 UTC
And here I thought we would be getting new hulls for these new capitals. Disappointing that we aren't. No new hull cant hardly justify the cost to obtain these.
Masterdant
Masterderizando
#100 - 2016-06-29 14:24:36 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
As far I can see, the webber bonus is NOT for Heavy Stasis Grapplers? Right?


No, those bonuses only apply for Normal Webs, not Grapplers.