EVE General Discussion

It was the carebear tears from miners, haulers and pacifists that have resulted in pvp in highsec getting over nerfed which means less content for everyone.

There used to be a time when big industrial corps held power and could go toe to toe with the PL, gons and russians of the day. This no longer happens because there is no need for industry players to group up anymore. At the same time merc groups are suffering incredibly badly due to mechanics changes. Piracy has equally been squeezed to breaking point.

Right now a miner faces just one threat and that threat only exists while people donate to code. You don't see the highsec wars or the hunting we used to find all over highsec and EVE is not better off without all of that content and story telling. We don't even have the old battle badgers prowling the space lanes.

Now this is sensible. And I think citadels are a good way to accomplish just that: because for a change, having assets becomes useful again. And where there are assets, there are people stepping up to defend them - that, and the fact you can't just bolt from under a wardec.

Then again, I'm from the school of thought that to provide boosts you need to be on grid, and preferably in the same corp. Far too often do I see people who are "officially" uninvolved providing bonuses while they themselves are hiding behind concord, or POS shields, or just sitting on the undock.

The highsec you describe I could get behind. But we don't want to get there with broken mechanics (such as, for example, indefinite bumping). When sh!t's broken, it needs to get fixed. Now we can provide incentives to be in a non-NPC corp, to put something of value on the line.

Mind you- the same applies to wardec entities: what do they ever put on the line? Where can all the angry miners and haulers go kick their can? Heh - no assets there oooooops. That's what I thought.

Thread title should read;

"Why is CCP trying to rebalance non consensual high sec PVP so that effortless ganking is a little harder"

The answer to this question is simple. High sec content creators have proven that if the expenses are trivial that they will destroy even empty freighters for the lulz. This highlights a risk/reward disparity. Therefore ganking empty freighters needs to be more expensive or more difficult.

No one should expect high sec to be safe. But if you are killing empty freighters, thats kind of arbitrary and takes almost any decision by the freighter pilot off the table and makes it a pure gamble to fly one in high sec.

This is true. But when enough people complain, CCP may be tempted to adapt the playing field. When that happens, it is necessary for us to let our countervoice ring loud and clear.

I'm not posting on topics that do not concern me, and in those areas where I don't know what I'm talking about I'll ask questions rather than post opinions. Concerning hauling, I have an opinion and the forum is the place to share it.

Specifically on topic of bumping - which is what spawned this new whinethread - I can't understand how the game mechanics have existed for as long as they have. Physics model sure says yes, common sense says no. Being an entirely virtual spaceship shooter I don't mind throwing some more physics out of the window but your Stabber simply isn't supposed to ram my ship and live to tell the tale.

While I have no fond love of gankers, I have no fond love for the carebear either. I don't discriminate- I hate every single one of you

If you aren't prepared for PvP in this game then perhaps it is the wrong game...or that first gank is a valuable lesson. If you want to semi-afk mine, get in a tankier ship. If you want more yield you'll have to pay more attention.

And to be honest alot of the ships that have been ganked have been ganked with bad fits--i.e. going for yield vs. tank. That is, they have left themselves vulnerable to being ganked.

This is a game about choices....and the consequences of those choices.

True enough, people are always going to disagree over something.

Not necessarily true, gankers are often alts and I know for a fact that there are miners, and industrialists, that are also in the business of ganking, either directly or by funding the likes of James and his merry band of mischievous miscreants; it allows them to put the hurt on the competition and creates a market for replacement ships and modules.



Likewise, when I mined I was tanked, when Hulkageddon was live I was either mining in a remote system or doing something else, like selling mining stuff and ammo, so much ammo

Oh they took a lesson from it, just not the correct one. The lesson they took from it was that if they lobbied hard enough CCP would nerf the "bad people" again, the lesson they missed is that there are consequences for lobbying for more nerfs.

Actually it never happens any more because Nullsec lobbies spent so much effort getting high sec industry nerfed and unable to compete that there is no point going big in Highsec. If you are going to put that much effort into the game, then you move to Null and join PL, Goons or Russians. As shown by the production/mining in null that goes on. Null mining equals high sec, there is serious production in some sections of null also.
Merc corps are also not 'suffering due to mechanics changes'. They are suffering because again, Null lobbies got highsec nerfed and got citadels to come pre nerfed in highsec, so again there is no point going big for highsec players so no real work for Merc corps.
Piracy is not being squeezed except by the giant coalitions.
And your mythical freighter figures are not 0.01% per several million jumps. They are 1 in about 10,000 jumps according to the figures you yourself posted from Red frog several months ago, who are one of the safest freighter groups, and who have a safety level that simply can not be globally matched because half their safety comes from it being better to gank the other guy. Which given a freighter pilot runs several hundred jumps a day quite easily, means a freighter pilot even in red frog can expect to lose a freighter a month on average.

So, look yourself in a mirror when you whine about lack of highsec content, because the nerfs to highsec are what have directly caused this by making it pointless to grow a large corp in highsec because of the disadvantages the null lobby have repeatedly pressed for. Ganking nerfs & buffs are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when it comes to high sec content, it's the other changes that one by one null have pressed for via their CSM stacking that have killed high sec content.

It's not only because of large null groups-- I still remember back when we were trying to learn the game, joining our first corp, then creating our own ... we were wardec'ed. A lot. Like ... constantly.

Many of the group we had kept struggling for a couple of months, then quit. I never saw them again, except for one guy who resubbed 9 months later. Left to my own devices (our CEO had unsubbed and we didn't even know LOL) I took another approach to the matter, thinking to myself "it's probably safer in lowsec because mercs never go there." And off I went. Got in touch with a slightly more experienced group who offered me a home, roams, the who shebang. They were decent people off all walks of life, PvP, industry, missionrunners, cap pilots and newbies.

We didn't have the best of killboards but Aridia and in particular Violent Declaration will always remain a special place for me, my old stomping grounds.

Point is ..... we couldn't grow in highsec. At all. We were easy ganks for anyone from suspectbait, wardeccers, gankers to scammers, griefers, ... Bottom of the pond. It wasn't until I went to lowsec I actually found some room to manoever, and learn, and grow.

Y'all talk about "highsec content" but I still remember what it's like to BE highsec content. Completely out of my mind they thought I was- but I was right: lowsec WAS a safer place for me to be. What you call "content" was nothing but dropping Lokis and Cynabals and Machariels and Phoboses onto people trying to grasp the basics. I'm sure my very first Rupture (which I mined myself by the way) and its T1 guns put up one hell of a fight.

Did you ever consider you might have overfarmed the region? All big talk aside, I've never seen these merc corps interested in "good fights". They wardec the biggest nubs they can find and farm them till they disband. After a while you kinda get it; then they complain the juicy targets (read: more experienced players who've been around the block a few times) drop corp. Let's be honest here: you never wanted a fight. You wanted a killmail.

You don't see large highsec corps because yes, you kill them before they grow.