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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#701 - 2016-07-01 21:47:40 UTC
Aaron wrote:


Piracy can be done anywhere on anything imo, I know groups in Stain NPC 0.0 who have made a very good living on looting the wrecks of player owned ships they've destroyed. Ships with a fitting value of 2 to 5 billion are killed in Stain on the daily, they are replaced as quickly as they are destroyed.


No, piracy is a criminal act, generally speaking. Both IRL and in game. As such piracy can only really take place when it is a criminal activity. Further, it usually entails taking stuff. So your example is only half way there.

Quote:

W33 is right, some people want to bully and only fight people who do not have the means to protect themselves.

Gankers, HTFU and come get some real pvp in Stain NPC 0.0.


They have several ways of protecting themselves. That they do not avail themselves of these options is their problem.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#702 - 2016-07-01 21:48:00 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aaron wrote:


W33 is right, some people want to bully and only fight people who do not have the means to protect themselves.


How does someone get bullied on a video game they can turn off? And how do people in a video games with guns everywhere not "have the means to protect themselves"?

What happens is that people shipping stuff in high sec have lots of isk (evidenced by the fact that they can afford a freighter and to put stuff in one). The real enemy is their greedy, rather than spending the isk to protect themselves, and/or making friends, they complain about 'bullies'.

If the people complaining would instead spend their time teaching people how to be safe, the gankers would wither on the vine. they only exist because stupid people exist.


IIRC the argument is "highsec is dangerous because it's literally not worth the effort to be careful"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#703 - 2016-07-02 00:09:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aaron wrote:


W33 is right, some people want to bully and only fight people who do not have the means to protect themselves.


How does someone get bullied on a video game they can turn off? And how do people in a video games with guns everywhere not "have the means to protect themselves"?

What happens is that people shipping stuff in high sec have lots of isk (evidenced by the fact that they can afford a freighter and to put stuff in one). The real enemy is their greedy, rather than spending the isk to protect themselves, and/or making friends, they complain about 'bullies'.

If the people complaining would instead spend their time teaching people how to be safe, the gankers would wither on the vine. they only exist because stupid people exist.


Hi Jenn,

I was referring to the people who gank miners, if your'e mining you wont have guns. Ok perhaps bully is the wrong word. I am trying to point out that the miner isn't prepared for pvp so CCP have to take this into account when designing the game. Yes, if your'e carrying 12 billion value then you're fair game.

I guess it just depends on how u like to fight, most people want easy fights.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Giaus Felix
Doomheim
#704 - 2016-07-02 00:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Giaus Felix
Aaron wrote:
Hi Jenn,

I was referring to the people who gank miners, if your'e mining you wont have guns. Ok perhaps bully is the wrong word. I am trying to point out that the miner isn't prepared for pvp so CCP have to take this into account when designing the game. Yes, if your'e carrying 12 billion value then you're fair game.

I guess it just depends on how u like to fight, most people want easy fights.
All of the mining ships have drone bays, 2 of them have particularly nasty drone bonuses. There is safety in numbers, especially when those numbers include Skiffs and Procurers. Fleet mining also allows for interesting options like spider tanks (don't know how effective it would be) and webbing each other for quick warp outs, and then there's the social side, it's hard to afk when you're chatting with your fleetmates.

I came for the spaceships, I stayed for the tears.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#705 - 2016-07-02 01:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Giaus Felix wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Hi Jenn,

I was referring to the people who gank miners, if your'e mining you wont have guns. Ok perhaps bully is the wrong word. I am trying to point out that the miner isn't prepared for pvp so CCP have to take this into account when designing the game. Yes, if your'e carrying 12 billion value then you're fair game.

I guess it just depends on how u like to fight, most people want easy fights.
All of the mining ships have drone bays, 2 of them have particularly nasty drone bonuses. There is safety in numbers, especially when those numbers include Skiffs and Procurers. Fleet mining also allows for interesting options like spider tanks (don't know how effective it would be) and webbing each other for quick warp outs, and then there's the social side, it's hard to afk when you're chatting with your fleetmates.


You're absolutely correct. I suppose within mining there are people who don't want to adapt to the environment and work out a way to protect themselves or seek help by joining a mining corp.

Also, I think that we need to stay on topic here...The OP is giving us his tears because ganking a miner has become harder. What I typed responds to that subject alone. The reason I referred to miner gankers as bullies is because they seem to want easy pickings, They know there are tons of miners who don't do what you're suggesting.

I'm trying to get miners to listen too, I'm doing a venture where miners can come out to Stain and mine to help build an economy, it is literally dead out here and it would be a miners paradise if he were able to adapt his play style a bit. But will people listen? That remains to be seen, so far no one has taken me up on the offer.

Too many Eve players are set in their ways and may never come out of their comfort zone which applies to the miner and the ganker.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#706 - 2016-07-02 04:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Giaus Felix wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Hi Jenn,

I was referring to the people who gank miners, if your'e mining you wont have guns. Ok perhaps bully is the wrong word. I am trying to point out that the miner isn't prepared for pvp so CCP have to take this into account when designing the game. Yes, if your'e carrying 12 billion value then you're fair game.

I guess it just depends on how u like to fight, most people want easy fights.
All of the mining ships have drone bays, 2 of them have particularly nasty drone bonuses. There is safety in numbers, especially when those numbers include Skiffs and Procurers. Fleet mining also allows for interesting options like spider tanks (don't know how effective it would be) and webbing each other for quick warp outs, and then there's the social side, it's hard to afk when you're chatting with your fleetmates.

And this is exactly how my corp survives while mining in null. Not just survive, we send punk ass gankers and droppers running lest they suffer the indignity of procs and skiffs on their kill mails.

Gankers in high sec exist because of the willful ignorance, greed, emotional fragility and generally asocial nature of high sec pilots. Educate and train them out of those aweful personal habits and watch ganking wither and die.

Or they could just cry about it on forums let CCP give them better mining ships, more ehp and better anchor rigs. It worked so well last time right?
Buliki
Publicly Owned Customs Offices
#707 - 2016-07-02 04:12:47 UTC
*** Help US
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#708 - 2016-07-02 07:44:23 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Because you see no intersection between two groups in the player base, you say don't bother, notice here that I did not personally attack you, I attacked your point not to bother doing anything to make war decs more interesting because there was no intersection of two extreme viewpoints. I quite rightly pointed out that there is a load of people in between those two points of view that do intersect and they want a better war dec system.

That you once again go into personal attacks because I pick you up on your comment is rather amusing, if I am a passive aggressive weenie to you, then I am rather happy, because people like you are cancer on the forums with your name calling and aggressive entitlement.


Okay, as per my post:

Set A: Those who are fine with PvP. They can be strictly PvP oriented, or they might do an array of things, including PvP.
Set B: Those who do not like PvP at all.

Please tell us who is in between these two sets?

Baby steps I guess. Roll


Ooooooh a baby step insult, way to go tiger...

You know that the "fine with PvP" is too wide, a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang of some poor sap in a shuttle passing through to a trade hub.... So a whole new content driver around something that gives people intel of value changes the conflict to something more fun for both sides. But I am likely talking to someone who is only interested in how green their keyboard is...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#709 - 2016-07-02 07:51:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Giaus Felix wrote:
Aaron wrote:
Hi Jenn,

I was referring to the people who gank miners, if your'e mining you wont have guns. Ok perhaps bully is the wrong word. I am trying to point out that the miner isn't prepared for pvp so CCP have to take this into account when designing the game. Yes, if your'e carrying 12 billion value then you're fair game.

I guess it just depends on how u like to fight, most people want easy fights.
All of the mining ships have drone bays, 2 of them have particularly nasty drone bonuses. There is safety in numbers, especially when those numbers include Skiffs and Procurers. Fleet mining also allows for interesting options like spider tanks (don't know how effective it would be) and webbing each other for quick warp outs, and then there's the social side, it's hard to afk when you're chatting with your fleetmates.

And this is exactly how my corp survives while mining in null. Not just survive, we send punk ass gankers and droppers running lest they suffer the indignity of price and skiffs on their kill mails.

Gankers in high sec exist because of the willful ignorance, greed, emotional fragility and generally asocial nature of high sec pilots. Educate and train them out of those aweful personal habits and watch ganking wither and die.

Or they could just cry about it on forums let CCP give them better mining ships, more ehp and better anchor rigs. It worked so well last time right?


Actually the balance of mining ships is fine in hisec, those that sacrifice yield are in ships that are too tough for the one or two active gankers in the area, those that want yield will do a calculation of risk and reward and accept the loss, CODE focussed on freighter ganking so a lot of people moved towards yield and now CODE. is running around reminding people that they exist.

We also see gankers compplaining about the yield on the Skiff being too much and that they only see people in Skiffs and Procurers, which is actually only true in those systems which are heavily ganked, such as Osmon and the very active Liek Darz.

So take it from me as someone who does AG stuff, the balance of mining ships in hisec is perfectly fine and dandy and anyone moaning from either side are just whining cry babies.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#710 - 2016-07-02 08:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
...a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang ...

How many?

This seems very much like a " I think therefore it must be true" type statement. It also seems like a rather one dimensional, shallow view of people's opinions.

I'm not even saying it's wrong, just asking how many people have this view, and is it significant compared to people who think something different?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#711 - 2016-07-02 08:44:10 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang ...

How many?

This seems very much like a " I think therefore it must be true" type statement. It also seems like a rather one dimensional, shallow view of people's opinions.

I'm not even saying it's wrong, just asking how many people have this view, and is it significant compared to people who think something different?


A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#712 - 2016-07-02 08:58:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang ...

How many?

This seems very much like a " I think therefore it must be true" type statement. It also seems like a rather one dimensional, shallow view of people's opinions.

I'm not even saying it's wrong, just asking how many people have this view, and is it significant compared to people who think something different?


A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

Yes, 'simple' seems like a very appropriate adjective there.

Wardec threads have just as wide a series of views as ganking threads and make highsec safe threads, etc.

So no numbers then and no analysis to show how significant that opinion based on a simple read is? Of course not. Just, it must be because that's what I think. No real attempt at validation, resulting in not only s simple read, but also a simple view.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#713 - 2016-07-02 09:43:40 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang ...

How many?

This seems very much like a " I think therefore it must be true" type statement. It also seems like a rather one dimensional, shallow view of people's opinions.

I'm not even saying it's wrong, just asking how many people have this view, and is it significant compared to people who think something different?


A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

Yes, 'simple' seems like a very appropriate adjective there.

Wardec threads have just as wide a series of views as ganking threads and make highsec safe threads, etc.

So no numbers then and no analysis to show how significant that opinion based on a simple read is? Of course not. Just, it must be because that's what I think. No real attempt at validation, resulting in not only s simple read, but also a simple view.


That is because you are at fault in terms of your own simplistic thinking and lack of analysis, which you showed so aptly at the start of this thread with your very simplistic +1 -1 count of buff's and nerfs. As I said, you are bad at this...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#714 - 2016-07-02 09:55:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
...a lot of people want more meaningful conflict which you flat out ignore, they are not just interested in bang bang ...

How many?

This seems very much like a " I think therefore it must be true" type statement. It also seems like a rather one dimensional, shallow view of people's opinions.

I'm not even saying it's wrong, just asking how many people have this view, and is it significant compared to people who think something different?


A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

Yes, 'simple' seems like a very appropriate adjective there.

Wardec threads have just as wide a series of views as ganking threads and make highsec safe threads, etc.

So no numbers then and no analysis to show how significant that opinion based on a simple read is? Of course not. Just, it must be because that's what I think. No real attempt at validation, resulting in not only s simple read, but also a simple view.


That is because you are at fault in terms of your own simplistic thinking and lack of analysis, which you showed so aptly at the start of this thread with your very simplistic +1 -1 count of buff's and nerfs. As I said, you are bad at this...

I tried simple thinking perhaps you could grasp the concept.

But as usual, nope. If it isn't convenient for you, just ignore or dismiss without offering anything else of value. Vacuous rubbish as is normal for you.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#715 - 2016-07-02 10:26:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

Yes, 'simple' seems like a very appropriate adjective there.

Wardec threads have just as wide a series of views as ganking threads and make highsec safe threads, etc.

So no numbers then and no analysis to show how significant that opinion based on a simple read is? Of course not. Just, it must be because that's what I think. No real attempt at validation, resulting in not only s simple read, but also a simple view.


That is because you are at fault in terms of your own simplistic thinking and lack of analysis, which you showed so aptly at the start of this thread with your very simplistic +1 -1 count of buff's and nerfs. As I said, you are bad at this...

I tried simple thinking perhaps you could grasp the concept.

But as usual, nope. If it isn't convenient for you, just ignore or dismiss without offering anything else of value. Vacuous rubbish as is normal for you.


If you go back to the start of the thread you will see a significant amount of likes on my post pointing out your error in thinking, enough said I would think...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#716 - 2016-07-02 10:51:48 UTC
Aaron wrote:


Piracy can be done anywhere on anything imo


There are no shipping lanes outside of highsec. What happens outside of highsec is roaming gangs, empires fighting each other and raids from WH. None of these things tend to be done with profit in mind while profit is the entire remit of a pirate. There is no bullying involved in some degenerate blowing you up and stealing your cargo, he is playing a role that has always been a selling point of this game. This content has been rather shat on over the last 5-7 years with seemingly no end in sight mostly to make it harder for haulers and miners to suffer the consequences of their own mistakes.




Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#717 - 2016-07-02 10:56:00 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

A simple read of the various war dec threads would suffice...

Yes, 'simple' seems like a very appropriate adjective there.

Wardec threads have just as wide a series of views as ganking threads and make highsec safe threads, etc.

So no numbers then and no analysis to show how significant that opinion based on a simple read is? Of course not. Just, it must be because that's what I think. No real attempt at validation, resulting in not only s simple read, but also a simple view.


That is because you are at fault in terms of your own simplistic thinking and lack of analysis, which you showed so aptly at the start of this thread with your very simplistic +1 -1 count of buff's and nerfs. As I said, you are bad at this...

I tried simple thinking perhaps you could grasp the concept.

But as usual, nope. If it isn't convenient for you, just ignore or dismiss without offering anything else of value. Vacuous rubbish as is normal for you.


If you go back to the start of the thread you will see a significant amount of likes on my post pointing out your error in thinking, enough said I would think...

Lol. You think likes have meaning.

That's priceless.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#718 - 2016-07-02 11:11:33 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Lol. You think likes have meaning.

That's priceless.
They only have meaning when they're his likes Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#719 - 2016-07-02 11:37:57 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

Lol. You think likes have meaning.

That's priceless.


Sometimes yes.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#720 - 2016-07-02 15:17:06 UTC
It is the gankers tears we can see in the OP and not the miners. It is important we stay on topic here.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie