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June release 118.6 - General feedback

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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#421 - 2016-07-01 08:11:31 UTC
Kremlath wrote:
I'm worried about the possibility of CCP deluding themselves into thinking that there is some 'silent majority' that is happy with the changes.

You cannot assume that the responses on this forum are representative of the playerbase as a whole. It doesn't work that way.
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2016-07-01 08:37:42 UTC
So CCP create two feedback thread, one during the tests, one at the release, and then they don't take it into account because "it's not representative" ? Then what is the point to ask feedback at all ?
It's representative when the feedback is positive, and it's not when the feedback is negative ?

Dictature : shut up !
Democracy : speak as much as you like, we don't care what you think or want.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#423 - 2016-07-01 08:41:36 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
So CCP create two feedback thread, one during the tests, one at the release, and then they don't take it into account because "it's not representative" ? Then what is the point to ask feedback at all ?
It's representative when the feedback is positive, and it's not when the feedback is negative ?

Dictature : shut up !
Democracy : speak as much as you like, we don't care what you think or want.

The feedback is very important and very informative, it's just not representative.

You cannot assume that because 50/100 posts say one thing that 50/100 players believe that thing.

But if one player tells you something about his experience on the forum, that's a data point. You can use that.

The problem is there is a lot of data and not that many people who are natural sifters.
Kremlath
Cayman Finance
#424 - 2016-07-01 08:49:10 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Kremlath wrote:
I'm worried about the possibility of CCP deluding themselves into thinking that there is some 'silent majority' that is happy with the changes.

You cannot assume that the responses on this forum are representative of the playerbase as a whole. It doesn't work that way.



I never said it was, I think you missed the point of the post.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#425 - 2016-07-01 09:15:45 UTC
could you keep the rotating camera running, or possibly turn it on if I don't turn the camera manually for five seconds, I really like the slow rotating view in space. It's like that spinning restaurant at the top of the space needle, I get to see my car once every three minutes. There's just so much to look at, not just where you want to. Capsuleers can go their whole space lives without appreciating the things around them!

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#426 - 2016-07-01 09:16:32 UTC
People pay like, $25 just to go up in those space needle restaurants, and that's not even counting the cost of the meal!

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
CCP Mimic
C C P
C C P Alliance
#427 - 2016-07-01 09:32:17 UTC
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback you have been giving so far. We are reading and investigating the points you have been raising and are taking these considerations into our work. This goes for the angry posts as well as the happy ones, so please keep them coming.

We are reading. We are listening.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#428 - 2016-07-01 09:46:04 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
v3locity wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
If cost is a consideration, I'd happily fork over 200 PLEX towards the cost of adding the toggle.

I'm sure we could do a whip round, PLEX for accessibility or whatever. It's not ideal, but if the options are to pay a premium for accessibility features or to be forced out of EVE, I'd accept the former.

So you want to pay them to not be stupid. Good luck with that one.

It's not really like that.

Take this quote as an example of the issues:

CCP Darwin wrote:
When people ask for a toggle to turn a feature off, usually they are really saying they'd like the feature removed entirely but think that an option toggle is a more reasonable request. Our focus, though, is usually on trying to make something new like the docking animation a positive for more people.

That's why I asked for posters who might say "Add a switch!" or "Take it out!" to instead explain what they don't like about it. Maybe it could be different in some way that wouldn't make you feel that way but doesn't take us back to a black screen or a loading bar for these session changes, and it helps if you offer us thoughts that can help us get there.

Of course, taking it out, or even adding a switch, are always last-resort options, but they're just something we prefer not to do if we think we can find a better spot for the feature that more players will appreciate.

So if you pick out:

1. When people ask for a toggle they are usually really asking for something else.
2. Our focus would be to offer them something else instead of what they are specifically asking for.
3. People asking for toggles are required to commit to further communication with us to be successful in persuading us.
4. Adding toggles is always a last resort.

You see how we end up with the situation we are in?

If you think offering 200 PLEX in order to bring about positive change is a negative, fine. That's a perfectly reasonable point of view and a perfectly reasonable response to what is obviously extreme behavior on my part.

I've given more than enough feedback to CCP in over a decade of playing. But I've watched the playable parts of EVE shrink around me in spite of my feedback. Those unaffected don't need to have their game curtailed by my issues. We don't require lots of development time spent on a new flashy thing that equally will not meet our needs. We just need a toggle so that those that have problems can be free of those problems while those that do not can enjoy the eye candy.

It is a bit like; Devs added something a (fairly large it seems) group don't like and rather than just asking for it to be removed are putting forth a compromise, which now has Devs in a state of upset because adding one more on / off toggle would just be so bad it would be game breaking.

It is after all something some Dev team put in a lot of time developing, for a group of people who never asked for it. (and in fact told them so BEFORE it was released via the test server feedback)

Suggestion; Add this to the "try new map" toggle, I'm sure 90% of players already have this unchecked and those who haven't would probably be the same minority who see these new nausea inducing timers as a good addition.

We all know Devs are stuck in a rigid release schedule but that is no excuse for releasing things that are not fitting with Eve. Slow motion nausea inducing timers aren't part of Eve and never should be. You tried you failed, add a toggle or just remove it and start over. There is no shame in admitting you got it wrong.

You never know, one day if it gets to the point where players like it and find it appealing, you can remove the toggle but to state your going to leave it there and it might improve with future iterations (the new map certainly has - Or has it), is just spitting in the eye of players..

There are 19 opt in /out settings in General and Display alone, what would one more hurt? Eve has always been about choice, you can PVE, PVP, mine, build, buy, sell, scam, steal, etc BUT you can't turn off unwanted animations that add nothing to your game play (except maybe the need to keep a bucket close if you dock and undock once too often).

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Kremlath
Cayman Finance
#429 - 2016-07-01 09:48:38 UTC
Thank you CCP Mimic. That is good to know. *cough* TOGGLE *cough* *cough*. Sorry. Smile
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#430 - 2016-07-01 10:01:55 UTC
CCP Mimic wrote:
... as well as the happy ones ...


Still searching ...
Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence
#431 - 2016-07-01 10:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Davina Sienar
hmkay

no comment
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#432 - 2016-07-01 10:16:03 UTC
Davina Sienar wrote:
hmkay

no comment

Yep, that's what I'm talking about.
Kaivarian Coste
It Came From Thera
#433 - 2016-07-01 10:41:29 UTC
CCP Mimic wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback you have been giving so far. We are reading and investigating the points you have been raising and are taking these considerations into our work. This goes for the angry posts as well as the happy ones, so please keep them coming.

We are reading. We are listening.


Thank you CCP. :)
Makareena
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#434 - 2016-07-01 10:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Makareena
Solution i can think of making new stuff work is like this

Make new options as a on/off switch or a slider.
After 2-3 days make a poll pop-up in game asking how you like it (the new feature)


1-----2-----3-----4-----5
x.....o.....o.....o....o
--------------------------- -
......Do you use it ?
no. . . . . . . . . . . . . .yes
x. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .o
--------------------------- -
. Your feedback.
. . . . . . . . . . . . .
--------------------------- -
Submit / Cancel


(why is there a question if i use it ? When i dont like it its quite obvious! But not so obvious when you like it. I like the shake of the camera in warp, the idea, that its there but i dont use it because it iritates me)

I know i dont write specially "nice" posts. But the logic and the way of thinking and the way i get the feeling you are treating your customers is so wrong i cant help it. Because from a simple mistake you made, what is actually ok... You made this stuff intentionally (this lion will bite my hand of if i stick my hand into his cage... Lets check that out!
marVLs
#435 - 2016-07-01 11:01:06 UTC  |  Edited by: marVLs
Ok now i can tell even more:

I got the first crate (10k).
It get me 3 days of heavy grinding (like 4-5h each day) and with really smart playing to maximize getting points and i can tell now that no mather what i wont be doing this event further...

Why?


  1. It's too damn grindy! If i need to grind for 50k i would literally hate eve and unsubscribe... srly no drama here
  2. Stuff in crate is crap like hell... Atron skin, two jackets and booster... (i'm mad at myself that i waste so much time)


Overall.
Gameplay of this type it's reeeeeeeeally unhealthy for game and players. Someone can tell "you don't like it then don't do it" well events should be for everyone, and to be fun, this type of event only push away players from eve, and that psychological thing "there's something to do, even if it's not worth the effort i feel like im loosing something etc"
Game should be fun, not giving frustration of grinding. It's a sandbox game and this type of stuff don't belong here. You won't pull more players by such a hard and no-life events, eve needs more casual players, that's the case now in gaming industry, deal with it. Don't be afraid of giving stuff to people. For hardcore players there should be hardcore sites with maybe better chance for loot and bigger point pool.

So what can be changed?


  • For like 40days give around 7 crates
  • Prices should be better srly, maybe even plex in top box
  • Less grindy, points pool should be halved around 1/2 or doing missions should give x2 of current points
  • Event assumption should be "do it in meantime of Your normal game" (so theres always something to do and be honest most peoples arent good at making fun for themselfs, here's protip for pulling those casual players) not stupid grind when you starting to hate game for that...
  • There should be also random crate drops from sites with random items (some epic, some crap, everyone loves that trill of having chance to get something cool) but do it smart so everyone can get that crates




But event UI is great P
Sergey Hawk
The Sith Syndicate
REFORD
#436 - 2016-07-01 11:26:46 UTC
CCP Mimic wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback you have been giving so far. We are reading and investigating the points you have been raising and are taking these considerations into our work. This goes for the angry posts as well as the happy ones, so please keep them coming.

We are reading. We are listening.

You Team Psycho Sister member?
Please stop doing cinematic crap.
Take care of important things.
For 3 month pilots ask you "Add custom tracking position for new camera"
This function has a greater impact on gameplay than dock animation.
Finally, make a zoom more responsive. Remove all zoom acceleration.
For those who like Dynamic Center Offset pls remove this pointless intermediate camera centering before starting rotation. This is example of cinematic crap, with it we lose precious seconds in battle. And do something to stop my ship fly off the screen limits.
And please do something with this f.cking distracting red flashing after each target kill.
All this has a huge impact on gameplay and your cool dock animation does nothing except that complicates our lives.

Aura: "You need to be within range to execute this function."

Kimi Räikkönen: “Leave me alone, I know what I’m doing.”
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#437 - 2016-07-01 11:48:28 UTC
marVLs wrote:
Ok now i can tell even more:

I got the first crate (10k).
It get me 3 days of heavy grinding (like 4-5h each day) and with really smart playing to maximize getting points and i can tell now that no mather what i wont be doing this event further...

Why?


  1. It's too damn grindy! If i need to grind for 50k i would literally hate eve and unsubscribe... srly no drama here
  2. Stuff in crate is crap like hell... Atron skin, two jackets and booster... (i'm mad at myself that i waste so much time)


Overall.
Gameplay of this type it's reeeeeeeeally unhealthy for game and players. Someone can tell "you don't like it then don't do it" well events should be for everyone, and to be fun, this type of event only push away players from eve, and that psychological thing "there's something to do, even if it's not worth the effort i feel like im loosing something etc"
Game should be fun, not giving frustration of grinding. It's a sandbox game and this type of stuff don't belong here. You won't pull more players by such a hard and lo-life events, eve needs more casual players, that's the case now in gaming industry, deal with it. Don't be afraid of giving stuff to people. For hardcore players there should be hardcore sites with maybe better chance for loot and bigger point pool.

So what can be changed?


  • For like 40days give around 7 crates
  • Prices should be better srly, maybe even plex in top box
  • Less grindy, points pool should be halved around 1/2 or doing missions should give x2 of current points
  • Event assumption should be "do it in meantime of Your normal game" (so theres always something to do and be honest most peoples arent good at making fun for themselfs, here's protip for pulling those casual palyers) not stupid grind when you starting to hate game for that...
  • There should be also random crate drops from sites with random items (some epic, some crap, everyone loves that trill of having chance to get something cool) but do it smart so everyone can get that crates




But event UI is great P
Thanks for that, it saves me a lot of wasted effort and eventual disappointment.
Right click "Remove" scope network event icon.. Done..

Funny though, one of my miners has 100 event points, no idea how it got them but hey, who cares.. Not grinding this crap for an atron skin, that will be worth next to nothing because the market will end up flooded with them. CCP has never been good with rewards for events, most of the time they become worthless after the first 2 or 3 days.

No chance of top rewards, they will go to the best thieves and scammers per Dev design. Warp in to a site in progress, approach reward container, steal reward container, collect points for site. Such an awesome event design. At least in lowsec you have the option of trying to kill the guy stealing from you, no such luck in highsec (where you just have to suck it up)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Blue Norther
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#438 - 2016-07-01 12:20:39 UTC
The new docking animation is nauseating to me, takes too long, and is tiresome to watch repeatedly. I have exactly the same complaints about the current jump gate animation.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#439 - 2016-07-01 12:27:10 UTC
CCP Mimic wrote:
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all of the feedback you have been giving so far. We are reading and investigating the points you have been raising and are taking these considerations into our work. This goes for the angry posts as well as the happy ones, so please keep them coming.

We are reading. We are listening.


Speaking for myself mimic, it's not 'angry', 'somewhat disappointed' and 'tired' are better words. You all do good work on a great game, but some times decisions coming out of your company regarding the game just strike me (and i'd hazard to say others) as tone deaf. It's as if CCP as an institution has a hard time noticing how the customer base responds to things.

I know a lot of information, feedback, noise (and yes, anger) gets thrown your way, but isn't a big part of being a game company knowing how to separate noise from actual discontent? How many times do people have to give negative feedback about things (like this latest docking camera situation, shadow of the serpent and other stuff) before someone says "ok, time to shift how we do this"?

Again, the game is great and I think most of us are having fun. No one is expecting you all to be perfect, we know you all are human (well, most of you, I have my suspicions about Falcon Big smile ), but it's frustrating to have to deal with the same kinds of disappointment every time there is a new patch.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#440 - 2016-07-01 12:31:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
marVLs wrote:
Ok now i can tell even more:

I got the first crate (10k).
It get me 3 days of heavy grinding (like 4-5h each day) and with really smart playing to maximize getting points and i can tell now that no mather what i wont be doing this event further...

Why?


  1. It's too damn grindy! If i need to grind for 50k i would literally hate eve and unsubscribe... srly no drama here
  2. Stuff in crate is crap like hell... Atron skin, two jackets and booster... (i'm mad at myself that i waste so much time)


Overall.
Gameplay of this type it's reeeeeeeeally unhealthy for game and players. Someone can tell "you don't like it then don't do it" well events should be for everyone, and to be fun, this type of event only push away players from eve, and that psychological thing "there's something to do, even if it's not worth the effort i feel like im loosing something etc"
Game should be fun, not giving frustration of grinding. It's a sandbox game and this type of stuff don't belong here. You won't pull more players by such a hard and no-life events, eve needs more casual players, that's the case now in gaming industry, deal with it. Don't be afraid of giving stuff to people. For hardcore players there should be hardcore sites with maybe better chance for loot and bigger point pool.

So what can be changed?


  • For like 40days give around 7 crates
  • Prices should be better srly, maybe even plex in top box
  • Less grindy, points pool should be halved around 1/2 or doing missions should give x2 of current points
  • Event assumption should be "do it in meantime of Your normal game" (so theres always something to do and be honest most peoples arent good at making fun for themselfs, here's protip for pulling those casual players) not stupid grind when you starting to hate game for that...
  • There should be also random crate drops from sites with random items (some epic, some crap, everyone loves that trill of having chance to get something cool) but do it smart so everyone can get that crates




But event UI is great P


I would cut this down so much, to the point where I could say "just leave off with the fancy stuff, Crimson Harvest works, just do stuff like that". lol

I dislike Shadow of the Serpent so much it's not even funny. Last night in a system i rat in there were 5 sites. I had 4 characters in that system, checked the serpent dash board and ONE of those characters had a mission for one of those sites and that's it. Crimson Harvest encouraged me to stop doing what i usually do (farm anomalies, run DED sites etc).

Shadow of the Serpent makes me want to stay in one place, ignore it and farm anomalies even harder... Literally the worst event I've experienced, and I usually salivate over new PVE content.