These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Upcoming Feature and Change Feedback Center

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

First post First post First post
Author
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2016-06-23 18:30:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Quote:
Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE. I can't go into too much detail about results but I thought you guys might like to know a bit about what did happen after it launched. The biggest conclusions we can draw so far (though we are still gathering and analyzing data) are that recurring opportunities did have a significant effect on player activity in game. We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind. This is really important for us and by collecting solid data with a fast and simple feature like recurring opportunities we will be able to make better decisions as we work on larger things in the future, such as the Shadow of the Serpent event, which begins on Tuesday in the 118.6 release.


Thank you for the admission that this feature was explicitly introduced as a method of artificially inflating the PCU.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Aurora SunBelle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2016-06-23 18:31:02 UTC
I very much enjoyed the feature even though my characters are all too old to benefit greatly from it. It was interesting to see which of my characters would get the sp first. Did it get to log in on days where I don't? Nope. Not much could because those days I am too busy with real life such as the weekends. I did make sure to kill rats with characters I normally don't. Axing this would be a terrible decision as it's a fun a mechanic to the game. I do hope you bring it back!
beakerax
Pator Tech School
#103 - 2016-06-23 18:32:34 UTC
The Farf wrote:
First is that this gives noobs (yet another) 1-up against vets. As most vets probably live in null, with a lot not having the security to come back to hisec, let alone the standing with agents to get missions, they're out of luck without a grind first.

this is wrong in a lot of ways
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-06-23 18:35:15 UTC
I'm pretty disappointed that this is going away and is not going to be replaced with a better designed system, that encourages greater effort for greater rewards.

TBH this sounds like a really stupid experiment. If you wanted to know if people would kill a frigate for free sp then obviously the answer was yes! However, if the question was whether the thousand of inactive accounts owned by people who are bored with the game are suddenly going to resubscribe just to kill a frigate, obviously that wouldn't be a sufficient incentive to pay £10 per month.
Ollie Hakaari
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#105 - 2016-06-23 18:35:36 UTC
Well was good while it lasted. 3 new research alts trained up for free.
Absolutely no ship skills on any of them.
Get your noob ship, remove the civilian gun, trash the ship. Undock, dock, get new noob ship, remove mining laser, fit 2nd civilian gun.
Undock, fly to a belt in 0.8 system, target and kill 1 rat.
Rinse & repeat final step each day and it's a nice thank you CCP.

For those saying that they'd never undock to kill a rat in a station based character due to a lack of combat skills?? HTFU.
00000000000000000000000 000000000001
Doomheim
#106 - 2016-06-23 18:39:44 UTC
Cant understand why this is being removed.

It should also be extended:

Scan one anomaly, wins the daily 10k, kill an enemy, mine, kill a rat, spent 5m in market...

Sad ):
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2016-06-23 18:41:16 UTC
I'm glad it's going away.

It wasn't implemented as a full feature, so claiming you would iterate based on the results of a half-implemented feature is kind of laughable. To all of the issues we pointed out, such as how narrow the Skinner Box lever was in terms of gameplay in a sandbox full of choices, excluding industrial, exploration, PI, mining, etc from participating; I'm not surprised there wasn't a significant change in player login behavior.

Looking forward to more fully developed events. Hoping the Shadow of the Serpent event is more successful.
Tuesdays Takk
Serpent Sun
#108 - 2016-06-23 18:44:31 UTC
As a brand new player, i'm bummed to see this go. I only got to use it for 2 weeks, and it was something that would keep me logged in for that extra hour or two to earn that slight boost in my skill training time. SP shouldn't be given away like candy, but again as a newbro, it was a tasty looking carrot.

If you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

Caliburn Zara
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2016-06-23 19:01:41 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Good day!

I'm here to let you know that on Tuesday, in the 118.6 release, we are planning to remove the recurring opportunity "Thrill of the Hunt".

Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE. I can't go into too much detail about results but I thought you guys might like to know a bit about what did happen after it launched. The biggest conclusions we can draw so far (though we are still gathering and analyzing data) are that recurring opportunities did have a significant effect on player activity in game. We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind. This is really important for us and by collecting solid data with a fast and simple feature like recurring opportunities we will be able to make better decisions as we work on larger things in the future, such as the Shadow of the Serpent event, which begins on Tuesday in the 118.6 release.

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to talk with us about the feature, both online and in person at Fanfest. While there were certainly concerns from you guys, the conversation stayed mature and productive which is fantastic for us and we really appreciate it.

Until next time,
Fly safe,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters



I guess I'm the exception then. This got me logging in every day. Days I normally wouldn't have logged in at all, just to get the SP bonus. I was going to start logging in my other characters on my account to benefit from the free SP as I hate how I can only train one character at a time and I refuse to plex for it.

I'm going to echo the benefit to newbros as well, a friend of mine has been wanting to play EvE and he did sub for a bit but quickly gave up once he saw the daunting amount of time to be able to learn skills and do anything. I mentioned this new incentive to him and he was considering coming back, but that won't be happening now.

I feel this "test" was too short to garner true results. The timing was terrible, it's summer, people are setting up to go on or already are on vacation. As someone who is cooped up during the winter, we like getting outside while we can as well. Students had finals and were likely studying over playing a game. Then there's the release of other games, from big successful developers with large followings, such as Overwatch. Add to that WWB is winding down, people who sub just to get in on the big fights then un-sub when they're over shouldn't be counted. No amount of incentive will keep those accounts going. If you were expecting to re-sub just for this, then you need to give it even more time. They're un-subbed and not actively following everything. People will find out about this 6 months from now and say "oh ****, had I known..." Again, too short a time for a test.

You even state that you're still gathering and analyzing the data.... how can you come to a decision when you haven't even finished looking at everything yet.

The fact is, going off of some responses and my own experience, plus your admittance that activity was up, it was working. Maybe not in as high a volume as you'd have hoped or exactly as you had hoped, but it was working. I don't see why you'd stop it then. Partially working or working in a different way is better than not working at all.
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2016-06-23 19:19:01 UTC
Thank God - good riddance to an annoying chore... I hated being forced to warp to belt..
Pans Exual
Tackled In Belt
#111 - 2016-06-23 19:22:07 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Thank God - good riddance to an annoying chore... I hated being forced to warp to belt..


did u get tackled in belt?
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#112 - 2016-06-23 19:24:08 UTC
Awkward Pi Duolus wrote:
Thank God - good riddance to an annoying chore... I hated being forced to warp to belt..


Dear APD,

If CCP Rise forced you to do anything without your consent, that's illegal in the vast majority of Western Nations.
Please take the matter to you local policing office.
Justice will be served.

--Helpful Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."

JohnnyRingo
Regiment Of Naga Association
OnlyFleets.
#113 - 2016-06-23 19:29:31 UTC
Please do not remove this feature, this is excellent for newer players to get a little jump in skills, which can mean a lot to newer players. The "instant" reward is a nice draw, should honestly be more of this to encourage activity, you should expand this with some events for newer players to be active and get rewards for being active, skill training is the biggest barrier for newer players and this does really help with that.
Neadayan Drakhon
Heuristic Industrial And Development
AddictClan
#114 - 2016-06-23 19:31:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Neadayan Drakhon
Good riddence to dailies, it was a bad idea from the start and should never have been implemented at all.

To all of you complaining about its removal - did you even see the threadnaught against the dailies that came up when they were first announced? Seriously if CCP had actually listened to the majority faction in that thread the dailies would've never even made it to the test server (and shouldn't have).

(edit, fixed typo)
Firinne Satir
Long Pig Luncheon Meat
Sending Thots And Players
#115 - 2016-06-23 19:48:30 UTC
This is really cool CCP, thanks for running the skillpoint boost taskforce. I hope that more ppl join the game via similar features. One possible option that we've seen bounced around on the forums is for multiple PLEX or paid month accounts to receive a BOGO on skill point equivalents for the time investment implied.

o7
00000000000000000000000 000000000001
Doomheim
#116 - 2016-06-23 19:49:56 UTC
All these haters in forum.

Its so annoying.

People cant notice the difference of opinions between newbros and dinosaurs.

Look at veteran posts, they all want it out of the game.

Look at newbros, you wont find one that did not liked it.

This is very, very annoying in forum. Really that CCP is hearing this people?

The Sp boost was a very good stuff for beginners. Wish i had it when i started.

It was lacking a lot of options imo, as my previous post but really, no point to remove it from the game.

Imo, this was the bad decision. Watching the profile of most people that camp forum is like watching the behavior and dynamics of a cerebral cancer

marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2016-06-23 19:51:36 UTC
Interesting analysis on your project, We put it in to see if it got players to log in again in significant numbers, obviously everything that has been sent your way over the past few years on the subject of falling game numbers has either been utterly ignored or skilfully intercepted before it could be absorbed but here is one take on the situation, Bribery will not cut it guys.

It has been mentioned here that Phobe was the tipping point for turning the slowly falling numbers into a torrent but I suggest you look a little further back to the inception of a train of changes to the game each of which while on the face of it appeared to be the 'Next Best Thing', in actual fact only ramped up the pressure on players to look harder at the game they spent there hard earned dollars on, Was it in fact providing the content they thought they had paid for, the numbers speak for themselves and need no further polish or spin, obviously it does not for many so they simply drift away, stop logging in and eventually unsub there accounts.

It is the content that is the problem here guys, the lack of provision for an individuals self generated content has been lost in favour of the current thread of thought that everyone that plays Eve simply wants to destroy everything they meet, in short you homogenised the playing field, turning it into one gigantic Jita 4-4 undock scenario leaving players little option but to engage in that activity or leave, and who really wants to log into a game were the only style of play is to undock, blow stuff up, get blown up and then log off again.

Those of us that have a vested interest in numbers, those being actual bums on seats, have watched this trend with ever increasing unease as Corporation active numbers have dwindled with each update, Yes fatigue was a major issue, but not on the face of it, there it looked like the perfect answer to force projection but beneath that there were other issues players had to contend with as a consequence of it's introduction, those issues far outweighed the surface penalties and for a lot it was a step to far, especially for those owning capital ships or Jump Freighters.

Mining nerfs spun off as ELUA infractions or attempts to oblige players to interact more met with similar resistance as the players natural risk aversion cut in and the Ice thing, well that was so poorly thought through it was laughable, but in the end it too had only a net negative effect, Not going to touch on ISBOXER as it simply seems to draw out the trolls in larger numbers but that too had a major effect on player numbers for many Corps as yet again they saw players self generated content evaporate followed by the involved Alts and more than some might admit the mains also leaving the game.

Recent changes to Sov mechanics again on the surface appeared to some to be a really good idea but beneath that the real effect to player content was never addressed by CCP, it was just expected that everyone would engage with this new style of play, One were there was little balance in the mechanics and even less content for the players involved having to grind indexes daily simply to maintain the situation before they could even consider doing anything for themselves in the game, like that was going to fly for very long.

Some may disagree but in the opinion of many and an even larger number no longer playing Eve, CCP lost it's way with the game, it forgot that balance extends across all aspects of the game, it forgot that players play the game for the content and that includes not just that served up by CCP, far more important is that which they can generate for themselves, remove that as it has been for many and there is little reason to play Eve at all.



Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Noobshot Elongur
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2016-06-23 19:54:59 UTC
Zelot Blueice wrote:
"CCP: This was a bad Idea, lets spin this so it looks like an experiment"

"Every sensical veteran player: OH NO **** THIS WAS A STUPID IDEA!"


CCPlease sotp trying to be spaceWoW



{shudders}.... spaceWoW. Please do not let EvE follow WoWs path of degradation. I left WoW because there is no challenge to that game anymore.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#119 - 2016-06-23 19:55:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Good day!

I'm here to let you know that on Tuesday, in the 118.6 release, we are planning to remove the recurring opportunity "Thrill of the Hunt".

Our hope in releasing this feature was to gain insight on how direct, daily rewards might effect and improve engagement in EVE. I can't go into too much detail about results but I thought you guys might like to know a bit about what did happen after it launched. The biggest conclusions we can draw so far (though we are still gathering and analyzing data) are that recurring opportunities did have a significant effect on player activity in game. We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind. This is really important for us and by collecting solid data with a fast and simple feature like recurring opportunities we will be able to make better decisions as we work on larger things in the future, such as the Shadow of the Serpent event, which begins on Tuesday in the 118.6 release.

I want to thank all of you for taking the time to talk with us about the feature, both online and in person at Fanfest. While there were certainly concerns from you guys, the conversation stayed mature and productive which is fantastic for us and we really appreciate it.

Until next time,
Fly safe,
CCP Rise for Team Size Matters

Great to hear that this feature is being removed. Faith has been restored slightly in CCP.

This was a bad feature for the game and hopefully CCP will now concentrate on better ways of increasing player activity.

I was possibly not representative of the general playerbase myself, although I completed one daily quest the whole time the feature had been released (and I logged in most days just to check the markets and chat to friends).

I have to say it though; "I told you so"!
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#120 - 2016-06-23 19:59:17 UTC
00000000000000000000000 000000000001 wrote:
All these haters in forum.

Its so annoying.

People cant notice the difference of opinions between newbros and dinosaurs.

Look at veteran posts, they all want it out of the game.

Look at newbros, you wont find one that did not liked it.

This is very, very annoying in forum. Really that CCP is hearing this people?

The Sp boost was a very good stuff for beginners. Wish i had it when i started.

It was lacking a lot of options imo, as my previous post but really, no point to remove it from the game.

Imo, this was the bad decision. Watching the profile of most people that camp forum is like watching the behavior and dynamics of a cerebral cancer



So...
Maybe this is a teensy bit off-topic, but what is the dividing live between vets and newbros?

Is it a hard line that splits the player base into two distinctive parts, or is it more of a continuum from the newest newb to the oldest-fart?

--Curious Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."