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[118.6] Recurring Opportunity removal

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Author
Grighory Kotovski
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2016-06-23 16:30:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Grighory Kotovski
Personally I kind of thought this Daily Objective thing was mostly geared to benefit NEW BROS.

To make the game feel like it was a bit easier to progress in the early goings where statistically it's been a falling off point - been tough to keep new people interested in the game.

So what about the possibility of taking this same feature and putting a CAP on it?

IE: This Daily Objective of killing a NPC Rat anywhere in the game granting 10k SP only is available DAILY until you reach a certain SP Limit. Then the Objective Changes to be more difficult, maybe the reward gets a little better or something too?

For me this feature wasn't really significant; but for a New Bro, 10k SP is quite alot to help you get through alot of those Skills that take less than a Day to train to help you get to the longer ones quicker.

At any rate, I'm sure CCP had a good reason to ditch it, but I wonder if maybe there's a better way to tweek the feature and keep it.
Dreamer Targaryen
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2016-06-23 16:37:35 UTC
Meh, I thought it was a great idea to give (especially new) players the feeling of being able to DO something to get their skills trained up faster. Especially if you start this game, there are month of "un-fun", but necessary skills in front of you (e.g. fitting, navigation) and knowing that there is nothing else you can do than wait (or invest your little isk into injectors instead of ships) is utterly frustrating.

That being said, the daily gave me a reason to login every day with every single account. I am 100% certain that I wouldn't have done that without the incentive of the daily. Since you didn't detect a change in your login-behaviour-analysis, I am probably the exception. Besides that, I hope you did take into consideration, that maybe certain groups of players had less of a reason to log into the game at all the last month and that might have influenced the login-behaviour, too.
Super Hana
All-Out
White Stag Exit Bag
#63 - 2016-06-23 16:41:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Super Hana
CCP Rise wrote:
We saw a pretty big bump in the share of folks heading out to kill something each day, and we heard some feedback that this in turn led to some pretty funny situations (read: kills). On the other hand, we saw very little change in login behavior, i.e. if you weren't planning to log on anyway, the 10,000 free SP boost wasn't really going to change your mind.


A wise man once said that data analysts do things like predicting that winter will come based on internet searches for flu.

As absurd as that example is, I feel it is reasonably analogous to this situation - it was a quirky exercise which revealed information (about player habits) which was already readily available. Who would've thought that people who weren't planning to log in would not log in? I find it hard to believe that this is creating extremely useful data that was worth the negative feelings this (and particularly the removal of the mechanic) could create in the unwitting test subjec- err, players.

Logging in is already incentivized as it is. One might've argued that in regards to skill training (as opposed to other areas of the game), there was no reason to log in except to add skills to queue, but injectors changed this - one can now acquire SP faster if he can make ISK for injectors faster. So there's no two ways about this - players already have a lot of incentive to log in for a number of reasons, and I don't see why a "good job, you logged in" mechanic was necessary. (I will, however, commend the impact of the daily opportunity on quickening the progression of new players to some degree. That part was an upside, even if a small one. I personally liked the existence of an alternative free source of SP, because the new player experience is still very bothersome, even with all the rights step taken to fix it (starting skills rebalance was a good one).

I think you would have more luck with increasing player activity if you poured effort into designing fresh content and mechanics that are compatible with the game and are there to stay, rather than permanently testing the waters with mass-produced, temporary little tests that have little long-term effect.

Positive examples of fresh, in-depth additions would be PI, FW, Incursions. Less effective examples would be Clone Soldier Tags, Mordu rats and sites. You can see by looking at both the good and the bad examples that the complex, in-depth ones are the ones that occupied the attention of players, while the simple ones comprised just of new NPCs following old mechanics are not as popular.

Try to make more of the complex ones, and fewer of the browser game "please visit the site daily so we get add revenue" type ones. They don't fit with EVE even if most of us will lap it up for in-game benefit.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#64 - 2016-06-23 16:41:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Now delete jump fatigue for a month and see the results. Since you already admit it was after Phoebe that logins started to decrease.

It does take some extraordinary head-in-the-sand logic to look at the Phoebe patch notes and pin the blame on....the skill queue change, as the reason for fewer logins.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#65 - 2016-06-23 16:47:55 UTC
good decision. the only positive aspect about the feature was "free additional SP". But the way it was implemented just did not fit to eve.

The game should be good enough to make players log in, not artificial daily pickup rewards. I am looking forward to the serpentis event and those after that.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Azure and Argent
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#66 - 2016-06-23 16:52:15 UTC
Awesome. Now the next step is listening to the players telling you what was going to happen before you implement changes so you can save time and dev resources for useful stuff.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#67 - 2016-06-23 16:54:13 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:

Thanks for the communication. I can confirm that your results match my experience. I certainly undocked more, and undocked more alts that normally rarely leave station, but it didn't encourage me to log-in on a day when I was not planning to play Eve. There are already enough rewards in this game tied to activity that an additional SP reward did not change the balance for me at least.

Best of luck on your work to develop and alternative approach to accomplish your development goals, and I appreciate the rapid turn around time on deployment and un-deployment of this trial feature.


Same for me. I am a bit sad at losing it as it was a good way to pad some Alt SP but it will not change my will to log or subscribe.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2016-06-23 16:54:28 UTC

This is highly diappointing.

I hope this is only a temporary hiatus in this. Even if it doesn't increase log ins that much, it is nice to give a reward to those who do log in. And it's been most helpful in advancing skills.



Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#69 - 2016-06-23 16:57:50 UTC
Good riddance
nezroy
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-06-23 17:05:03 UTC
Since this is going away, I hope CCP will look at adding a "10k SP injector restricted to <5M SP characters" item to the game and have it be part of the reward tracks on their new event system (the Shadow thingy and future similar content). I saw a ton of positive feedback from new players about the incentive/motivation of that SP bump, and how helpful it was in their early process to be able to just jumpstart a few skills here and there.
Lagartija Nick
Starship Snoopers
#71 - 2016-06-23 17:05:51 UTC
Please don't remove this feature. I think you guys are missing how powerful just the idea that there is a tiny daily skillpoint boost in the game can be. People that haven't played the game in years that I know have expressed interest in returning simply because of the inclusion of this daily 10k skillpoint bonus for playing the game and logging on.

It was a good idea, and really the short data collection period is only givng you an idea of how it is affecting your current playerbase, not the people who are just learning about it who have yet to subscribe or resubscribe.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2016-06-23 17:09:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Azariah
Mynxee wrote:
I didn't use the feature, heck, I can't even remember to keep a training queue going half the time :P But what I love about the OP is that it shows us a delightfully flexible and experimental mindset about game features from CCP and that is just wonderful to see. Seems to bode well for the ongoing possibility of keeping things fresh with new stuff being popped in here and there, then retired and replaced with something else new a bit later. The amount of stuff that's been changed/added to the game over the last two years is really staggering!


I am not here to say I told you so but to applaud the willingness to assess and make changes when something does not work out as planned. Especially to publicly state that it was not quite what you hoped for and drag it back to the drawing board.

Well done

Oh, defender missiles . . . .please? Take them out back and BOOM.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Holker Rubin
Graph-yard
#73 - 2016-06-23 17:09:34 UTC
At first I was against it, just like so many people in here, however; it did make me log into my alt and I actually had fun playing and progressing with him and now I am going to sorely miss this feature.

I really hope it will return!
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#74 - 2016-06-23 17:10:23 UTC
nezroy wrote:
Since this is going away, I hope CCP will look at adding a "10k SP injector restricted to <5M SP characters" item to the game and have it be part of the reward tracks on their new event system (the Shadow thingy and future similar content). I saw a ton of positive feedback from new players about the incentive/motivation of that SP bump, and how helpful it was in their early process to be able to just jumpstart a few skills here and there.

This could actually work. Maybe.
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#75 - 2016-06-23 17:11:50 UTC
Angelique Duchemin wrote:
I liked it. It was two free injectors per month worth of skillpoints.


And you wonder why it is getting removed?..

The problem is that people (like me) will have all of their alts stuck in a school system, logging in and sending one round into a rat then logging off.

Planet Busta
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2016-06-23 17:14:13 UTC
Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#77 - 2016-06-23 17:14:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Minty Aroma
Doh, recently remapped a character thinking I could get the off remap stuff with the SP from the daily. Guess not now.

I guess the total number of logons was higher but the concurrent people online wasn't, probably due to people logging in an alt then off again. Another thing to consider is that Warhammer Total War was released on the same day, therefore you'll have lost 90% of Test!
Milam Dobbins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2016-06-23 17:15:55 UTC
What kind of % were you noticing?

Keep in mind that daily login incentives should affect login rates by like ~5% or something, they don't seem to be drastic but it is pretty significant in the long run. The other thing is that daily login incentives are most effective when they exist from the beginning of a players experience because it builds a habit for them - you should be looking at new players almost exclusively, and how the incentive affects them specifically...the incentive could be brought down so it only affects pilots under a few million SP and you would probably get the vast majority of the benefit.
Sykes Makar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-06-23 17:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykes Makar
They should've expanded on that and turned it into some sort of 'weekly opportunities', where you need to finish a certain amount of tasks until you get 'cashed out'.
Lorewise, it could be funded by Concord/Empire Factions/Dubious Contacts to keep the order/mayhem in the system going.

That could be partly based on the security level of the system, with 0.5 to 1.0 is mostly ratting, -0.1 to -1.0 is more PvP focused while 0.4 to 0.0 is a mix of both, along with Faction Warfare squeezed inbetween. Commerce and Industry tasks should be available regardless of security level.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2016-06-23 17:21:43 UTC
Planet Busta wrote:
Watch the logins drop after it is removed :D


I suspect they will drop.

I for one noticed an increase in activity, more people around since this was included. So I question the metrics. Even people in my corp were logging in for the daily reward, and many times sticking around for awhile afterwards.

I can't help but feel there is an ulterior motive.

One month hardly seems like an adequate amount of time to not only see the long term effect of this, but to see if those who objected to it came around to seeing its merit or at least not being so hostile toward it. Some here have alrady expressed that sentiment; initially being opposed to it, but then finding it a nice feature to have.