EVE General Discussion

Your definition is always going to be hopelessly narrow, since other peoples spaceships don't even have to die for it to be PVP.

People are not discouraged from lowsec because they are afraid of the pve content - its players that they fear. Denial of content is part of what makes EVE. The L4 runner is denied from L5s by players. The highsec miner is denied from nullsec ores by players, and the highsec explorer is denied drop access to better medium and all large deadspace stuff by players.

The only oddity about highsec PVP is that people who outsource their asset safety to concord, occasionally discover that as its basically reactionary, it actually requires *effort* on the part of the player to be saved by them, and sometimes that fails. Its just a very low bar, and some players still can't get past it.

getting ganked is after all a failure by the ganked player, and thats what really burns.



lol. Apparently you do know how to PVP the messenger, since you've spent more time working out insults than cogent arguments.



CAS holds and has held an outpost in syndicate for years and consistently entices new pilots to become involved in gang pvp against real opponents, which is far better goal than baby-seal-clubbing other newbie corp players (or forcing people directly into a corp at war when they drop a corp). Also in the time that I've played, rvb, eve-u, goons, brave and pandemic horde have all accepted and developed low SP players as a strategy. All of those things are better than a war of cheapshots on newbies, and probably gives us a hint about the kind of things that CCP should expend energy on enhancing.

Where the difficulty lies in balancing the game for retention is to pit players progressively against the difficulties of other players, and get them to buy into it, without making sovereign nullsec an exercise in insurmountable incumbent economic advantage.

If you think back to the goons ice intervention, that was one of the more memorable examples of highsec content, and it was literally denial of gallente ice, the final result being nobody mining in those belts - I watched it from my alt, they only needed to kill a few each day in each belt and day by day the herds thinned which raised the odds slowly for the rest until the odds of a death rose for each remaining herd member sufficiently for them to be aware of it, and that awareness caused them to stop, many of them without actually losing a ship. it was only content for those people when it affected them, when they had to do something different because of it.

The whole point of skillpoints, costs of objects, non sharded content, probing, the different engagement rules in each security space etc is to dripfeed you content.

A lot of people that run missions, mine and the like in highsec, believe at some random point in the future they'll have enough money, skillpoints or whatever to do some other thing in the future (even if the roadblock is largely in their heads), so that thing is kind of built up mentally to be greater than perhaps it is, which causes them to stick at the game doing boring things (given the other gaming options people have for their time, wtf causes them to fit and field a miner, which was a boring mechanic in 2003 and has not improved with age).

IMO the main reason they brought in skill trading is simply because that dripfeed is too slow in 2016 - I certainly wouldn't have started a whole new account, and played from the start again if I had to play the game fundamentally at the old speed.

Well, that's a change of tune from your last Evemail that said otherwise, anyway we've been over this before.

Judging people's game knowledge by their killboard, or total lack thereof in my case, makes you look foolish; the very fact that this character has been my main since 2012 and has never appeared on a killmail despite regularly hauling through ganking hotspots and my overall playstyle being that of what many consider to be prey says one of two things, I've either been lucky or have a decent working knowledge of how to not get ganked, the second of which implies I know how the mechanics being used against me work. Being as I actively take steps to not get ganked I'm going with the latter, Lady Luck is nearly as much of a dogs mother as the loot fairy.

Having a killboard is like having a religion, it's fine to be proud of it, it's fine to share with like minded folks, what isn't fine is when you start judging people by it.

You resort to insults when you feel threatened and have posted incorrect summations of how stuff actually works more than once in the past. My comment stands, the way that you think some things work is not how those things actually work.

On the subject of PvP, would you care to try your luck Dracvlad? Put your money where your mouth is, come gank me. Bring your friends if you have any, you'll need them.

Puffed up? No.

This isn't the first time you've tried to use my lack of killboard to paint my posting and opinions as worthless, it's a worthless metric because killboards show only the most visible of all the myriad forms of PvP in Eve.

That's debatable, some of your posting in other threads indicates otherwise.

Yet you judge others by theirs.

Hello pot, I'm kettle, pleased to meet you.

Please show where I displayed butthurt.

That I make an effort to not get shot at by using the game mechanics that are available to me, and that I am surprisingly successful at not dying, makes my opinion as valid as yours. It's certainly more valid than that of those that demand CCP makes the effort for them.

I'm well aware that Eve is a game which involves shooting stuff, if I wasn't why would I be making the efforts that I do, to not be the person that gets shot at?

Eve has many facets and involves far more than just shooting stuff, which incidentally is something that I am all in favour of, despite not partaking of it, because it directly affects some of the activities that I do partake of.

As for me not being worthwhile shooting? Thought so, all mouth, no trousers.

That wasn't butthurt sir, that was a challenge.

You talk the talk but you're afraid to walk the walk, scared that I may actually know what I'm talking about and not an easy kill?

You mean the thread where you were blathering on about over collateralised courier contracts being a scam? When you spout uninformed bollocks you're going to get picked up on it; BTW you never answered my question in that thread, how is an over collateralised courier contract a scam?

You spouted more crap, I picked you up on it.

I'm not stalking you at all, it's that your spouting of twaddle is so prolific I can't not see it.

Big mouth I may have, the difference between you and I is that I admit it, just as I openly admit to having a null killboard and being a bear with a bad attitude towards carebears.

I don't want, nor need, to crawl back into my hole. I'm enjoying the rain as you slink off with your tail between your legs; a predator, stared down by the prey.

Nah, I'd interdict LP for a faction. IMO there might exist a theoretical alliance who found themselves recently relieved of their sovereign space holding duties, and have lots of line members doing not a lot some of which would happily shoot lowsec L5 red symbols, get an income and contribute bounty taxes if other line members were controlling the surrounding space, and yet more members were artificially increasing the value of the LP by murdering the highsec runners.



Yeah I'm a big fan of it. earned the money quickly to inject good skills for flying a stratios and if I put my mind to it, it can earn an injector in a few hours. Basically lets me play a new EVE story from scratch at a pace that suits me, so I can do something different with this character. I'm also beginning to kill SPs as I've gone well past 5m.

Go and stalk someone else, I have zero interest in you.

Sorry but this comment is bassackwards.

Gankers like CODE and such would justify themselves with comments like this, just like a rapist would justify themselves with "Well, she was dressed provocatively!"

It's actually a little too close to home with that parallel, but it's true. Offloading the 'fault' of being ganked onto the victim is ludicrous, but then again, ganking is legal so no crime has been committed that isn't punished by ship loss.

Yes, you can fly your tanked to snot procurer/skiff and STILL get ganked, the ganker just has to be willing to lose a lot of ships to CONCORD to do it. I'm not sure how in this case you could at all claim the victim was 'at fault'. The ganker is 'at fault' and while there's a freaking crap ton of garbage surrounding the justifications of it, calling it 'content' etc., it's just another way to make ISK with relatively little risk.

Ganking, plain and simple, is not PvP. It's PvE. I've said it a dozen times. You are mining players PvE ships instead of asteroids. There is very low risk to gankers. They are set up from the get go to lose the ship. The worst thing that happens to them is a failed gank, the intended victim lives and CONCORD blows their ship to space dust before they got the kill. They aren't going to get podded, CONCORD doesn't pod. So all their implants stay nice and secure. So gankers rely on HiSec mechanics just as much as normal PvE players do. It's a PvE activity, it just so happens the targets are operated by players not NPC's. They are about as dangerous.

There is no comparison between real-life sexual assault and ganking in this video game. Coralas is being a bit provocative to make a point, but yes, usually it is the ganked player's fault if they lose a ship. Sure, there are cases where you are in the wrong place at the wrong time and you explode before you can do anything, but in the vast majority of cases, there is something you could have done to prevent it. Highsec is extremely safe, and there are ships and fits for almost all purposes that are completely immune to economic ganking. If you die it is because either you made a calculation that you would not take precaution and engaging in more vulnerable behaviours because it was easier or more profitable, or you got complacent.

Ganking someone isn't a real crime like raping someone - it is intended and legal game play. All players are put at risk to the others by CCP and if you don't defend yourself for whatever reason, it is ultimately your fault for not managing the risk. Just because you got ganked shouldn't be looked at as an automatic "fail" though. Ships are suppose to be lost in this game and if you intentionally risk one to a ganker for a greater reward and just happen to lose on occasion, that just may be the cost of doing business in New Eden.

While I won't refute this point again since I clearly didn't convince you last time you raised this erroneous argument, I will remind you that decisions both players make determine the outcome of the PvP encounter. Do not fall into the trap you seem to be flirting with that you are impotent or a victim and that the ganker is the bad person who is holds all the cards and thus is the 'rapist' as you accuse them of and at fault for engaging in spaceship PvP in a spaceship PvP game. They are just another player playing a video game as a predator while you are playing as the prey. CCP has given you plenty of tools to dodge those predators and expects you to use them.

The rabbit does not usually beat the wolf by killing it with a volley of antimatter, but rather wins by escaping the chase or not getting spotted in the first place. Pay attention, tank your ship and haul sanely and you will avoid the predators. Mine AFK, overload your ship and autopilot you make yourself a target and you are indeed at fault if the predator makes a meal of you.