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why does it seem like CCP is castrating high sec content creators

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#481 - 2016-06-22 20:39:33 UTC
Bexol Regyri wrote:
I have only been playing eve for about 5 months and started out a high sec miner. One of the things that attracted me to eve was that it was pretty much what I expected of space from all the scifi books I read full of good guys and bad guys and that space is not a safe place. One of the things I found out right away was about 1/2 the players in space were not engaged in the game. There would be an ice belt with 30 people in it, but no one was really there. Their ships just mining away while they did stuff in real life. I almost fell into the same trap but then I met the pirates, as I later found out where called gankers in this game, mercs and griefers. At first I was like these guys are jerks to put it nicely. The more I watched them blow up people the more I realized they are forcing people to stay engaged in the game. At the same time I watched CCP make changes to hamper the high sec content creators and cater people to people that are not actively engaged while undocked. How does that help a healthy community?

so my question is why does it seem like CCP wants to stop or make close to impossible all non PVE highsec content when players have tons of in game tools avoid dying like d-scan, local chat, kills in system on map, etc...?


Short answer: CCP is rewarding the lazy and the stupid.

Bumping: You get bumped by being bad. No scout, no webber to put you into warp faster. Wanting to autopilot. Overloading your freighter.

Also, a vast chasm in how the game is viewed by groups of players. Malcanis hit the nail on the head in discussing wardecs here.

Malcanis wrote:
Likewise, the defenders in general don't want non-consensual PvP at all, and they want CCP to just stop it (see the post directly after the one I made above, for example.)


You see the same thing with respect to AFK cloaking. The people who complain are, by and large, NS renters. These players tend to spend most of their time ratting and an AFK cloaking pilot will upset this. Suggestions on how to counter-act the effects of AFK cloaking, at least to some degree, generally fall on deaf ears.

This is also why we see the “one more nerf” phenomena on the forums. Something will get nerfed, yet when players respond to the nerf with a new approach, tactic, etc. the people calling for the initial nerf, or people like them, are back on the forums whining for another nerf.

EVE is a game where at its core is emergent order. Emergent order is NOT directed by any one person. The players as a whole create that order via lots of interactions.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#482 - 2016-06-22 20:50:50 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
... you base all your assumptions on a study of 15 day old players, and discussions by who based on what data, mere pap and fluff which you accused others of doing, this is not the same as talking about mechanics like crimewatch, this is analysis of numbers where the right questions have been asked when people de-sub. It is like earlier in the thread your simplistic and pathetic +1 nerf suggestion, laughable...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5504176#post5504221

I'll stick with the validated views of CCP over the personal bias that must just be right because reasons approach. At least CCP offer statements based on evidence and not just tears.


NEW PLAYERS let me repeat it so you get it NEW PLAYERS and the data was on 15 day old max in their trial period. The only tears I have is from laughing at you trying too hard...

Not the only statements, nor only evidence. In your denseness you can assume just one piece of evidence put forward by CCP, but that isn't the case.

Additionally, you can assume stupidly (it would be typical) that people's core views and attitudes somehow do an about turn after they e been playing the game for a while, but then this forum along would show that's not the case.

So while you an ignore or diminish the attempts by CCP to better understand the attitudes of players because they inconveniently don't fit your world view, the rest of us will acknowledge that just like CCP indicated at Fanfest 2014, invalidated opinions don't mean much when you actually find the data is opposite.


All they did was an analysis on the affect of ganking on players who were in the 15 day trial period. That is it, period, a small sample that is totally irrelevant in terms of the subbed account base, all you can say is the impact of ganking on players within their 15 day trial period. This is a small data sample on a very specific question and because the right questions are not asked when people de-sub, it can only be extrapolated, which is why CCP Rise said it does not appear to affect them. Oh they were not upset at losing a venture which was given to them well who would have thought that? Roll of drums and all that... This is not the answer you are not looking for Shae, or whatever...

That is incorrect.

You have been here long enough to have read all th discussions over the last couple of years. The evidence put by CCP on player retention (not just the one new player study, but also the subscribed player retention, etc.) so it would seem you are just diverting by simply lying.

For all the disagreement I have had with you, I never imagined you would just lie about things. But it seems you do.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#483 - 2016-06-22 20:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Killing in Eve should be for the fun of it not to make a profit.

Who are any of us to dictate what someone else's play should be about?

If you enjoy the way you choose to play, then you have no greater right to dictate how others should be able to play or why they play.

Their choices are just as valid as yours.

If players are stupid enough to present themselves as profitable targets and don't take sufficient precautions to protect themselves, then that's their fault. You can't patch stupid.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#484 - 2016-06-22 20:54:09 UTC
They can bump you without you being bad, they use suicide blackbirds to stop you from warping so the Macherial can get on you. It is not a question of being bad for the mainly solo players in hisec, its really a question that so many 0.0 alliances are bad because they make no effort to protect their logistics.

CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.

One issue is that people like Malcanis and others accuse people who are looking for game balance as being the same as those that want a totally safe hisec, that gets a bit wearing. For example you gave no credit to the gankers here in terms of them being good at what they do, you ignored their tactics that means they catch you even if you are being good by using webbers, it is just so easy to say look they are bad.

However I suggest you pop along to this post and see a ganker in full on whine mode...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479082&find=unread

The poor lamb...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#485 - 2016-06-22 20:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
All they did was an analysis on the affect of ganking on players who were in the 15 day trial period. That is it, period, a small sample that is totally irrelevant in terms of the subbed account base, all you can say is the impact of ganking on players within their 15 day trial period. This is a small data sample on a very specific question and because the right questions are not asked when people de-sub, it can only be extrapolated, which is why CCP Rise said it does not appear to affect them. Oh they were not upset at losing a venture which was given to them well who would have thought that? Roll of drums and all that... This is not the answer you are not looking for Shae, or whatever...

That is incorrect.

You have been here long enough to have read all th discussions over the last couple of years. The evidence put by CCP on player retention (not just the one new player study, but also the subscribed player retention, etc.) so it would seem you are just diverting by simply lying.

For all the disagreement I have had with you, I never imagined you would just lie about things. But it seems you do.


No, just stating facts on what that study was.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#486 - 2016-06-22 21:02:27 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
They can bump you without you being bad, they use suicide blackbirds to stop you from warping so the Macherial can get on you. It is not a question of being bad for the mainly solo players in hisec, its really a question that so many 0.0 alliances are bad because they make no effort to protect their logistics.

CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.

One issue is that people like Malcanis and others accuse people who are looking for game balance as being the same as those that want a totally safe hisec, that gets a bit wearing. For example you gave no credit to the gankers here in terms of them being good at what they do, you ignored their tactics that means they catch you even if you are being good by using webbers, it is just so easy to say look they are bad.

However I suggest you pop along to this post and see a ganker in full on whine mode...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479082&find=unread

The poor lamb...

I fly freighters and jump freighters through highsec every single day (just check the killboard of this character to see the cyno losses in rookie ships as some evidence of that in terms of jumping out of highsec to mid-points and destinations).

Being bumped or ganked is 100% avoidable. It just takes someone to be responsible for themselves and accepting that if something goes wrong, it's your own fault. Taking that attitude puts a whole new light on safe hauling and it's easy to achieve.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#487 - 2016-06-22 21:05:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
All they did was an analysis on the affect of ganking on players who were in the 15 day trial period. That is it, period, a small sample that is totally irrelevant in terms of the subbed account base, all you can say is the impact of ganking on players within their 15 day trial period. This is a small data sample on a very specific question and because the right questions are not asked when people de-sub, it can only be extrapolated, which is why CCP Rise said it does not appear to affect them. Oh they were not upset at losing a venture which was given to them well who would have thought that? Roll of drums and all that... This is not the answer you are not looking for Shae, or whatever...

That is incorrect.

You have been here long enough to have read all th discussions over the last couple of years. The evidence put by CCP on player retention (not just the one new player study, but also the subscribed player retention, etc.) so it would seem you are just diverting by simply lying.

For all the disagreement I have had with you, I never imagined you would just lie about things. But it seems you do.


No, just stating facts on what that study was.

No, stating that only one study has been conducted. That is incorrect and it would appear, deliberately so.

You are even wrong in relation to that one study you are dismissing. 80,000 unique players is not totally irrelevant in terms of the player base. How many approximately subscribed accounts are there? 300000 - 500000?

80,000 unique people is not an irrelevant number. (But importantly, not the only study or only evidence presented in the last couple of years that ganking does not harm numbers in CCPs view).

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#488 - 2016-06-22 21:11:28 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
They can bump you without you being bad, they use suicide blackbirds to stop you from warping so the Macherial can get on you. It is not a question of being bad for the mainly solo players in hisec, its really a question that so many 0.0 alliances are bad because they make no effort to protect their logistics.

CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.

One issue is that people like Malcanis and others accuse people who are looking for game balance as being the same as those that want a totally safe hisec, that gets a bit wearing. For example you gave no credit to the gankers here in terms of them being good at what they do, you ignored their tactics that means they catch you even if you are being good by using webbers, it is just so easy to say look they are bad.

However I suggest you pop along to this post and see a ganker in full on whine mode...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479082&find=unread

The poor lamb...

I fly freighters and jump freighters through highsec every single day (just check the killboard of this character to see the cyno losses in rookie ships as some evidence of that in terms of jumping out of highsec to mid-points and destinations).

Being bumped or ganked is 100% avoidable. It just takes someone to be responsible for themselves and accepting that if something goes wrong, it's your own fault. Taking that attitude puts a whole new light on safe hauling and it's easy to achieve.


So how will you avoid the blackbird pointing you to enable the bumpers to get on you, I know the scout, got me there, well lets say thet they have covered all the pipes and you have a scam courier contract that you could not resist and yes I know you would not have taken that contract, and neither would I.

Now we get to the fun part, as I was in Executive Outcomes at one point, I also know that there is a neutral freighter blue list for the most prolific of the gankers, Goons and CODE. So if you are part of that blue list then your risk is only the odd Russian gankers or maybe some PL. People make statements like oh they are bad look at me I do it no issue, but its not the whole story is it...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#489 - 2016-06-22 21:16:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.


Why the need to bait? If he gets back from being AFK and tackles you, yell in comms and your fleet will warp to you and counter. You are in a fleet, right?
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#490 - 2016-06-22 21:16:49 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
All they did was an analysis on the affect of ganking on players who were in the 15 day trial period. That is it, period, a small sample that is totally irrelevant in terms of the subbed account base, all you can say is the impact of ganking on players within their 15 day trial period. This is a small data sample on a very specific question and because the right questions are not asked when people de-sub, it can only be extrapolated, which is why CCP Rise said it does not appear to affect them. Oh they were not upset at losing a venture which was given to them well who would have thought that? Roll of drums and all that... This is not the answer you are not looking for Shae, or whatever...

That is incorrect.

You have been here long enough to have read all th discussions over the last couple of years. The evidence put by CCP on player retention (not just the one new player study, but also the subscribed player retention, etc.) so it would seem you are just diverting by simply lying.

For all the disagreement I have had with you, I never imagined you would just lie about things. But it seems you do.


No, just stating facts on what that study was.

No, stating that only one study has been conducted. That is incorrect and it would appear, deliberately so.

You are even wrong in relation to that one study you are dismissing. 80,000 unique players is not totally irrelevant in terms of the player base. How many approximately subscribed accounts are there? 300000 - 500000?

80,000 unique people is not an irrelevant number. (But importantly, not the only study or only evidence presented in the last couple of years that ganking does not harm numbers in CCPs view).


Its not just the number or sample that is important, its what you actually store that enables you to analyse the data to answer the question, as there was not a direct question about whether you de-subbed because you were ganked, I would think that it was extrapolated by looking at those that were ganked and comparing to those that were not and a guess made.

The rest of your point is irrelevant...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#491 - 2016-06-22 21:18:17 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.


Why the need to bait? If he gets back from being AFK and tackles you, yell in comms and your fleet will warp to you and counter. You are in a fleet, right?


I want to blow up his ship and those that are with him, hard to do when he is not at his keyboard, seems a bit obvious to me...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#492 - 2016-06-22 21:19:35 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I want to blow up his ship and those taht are with him, hard to do when he is not at his keyboard, seems a bit obvious to me...


He can't touch you when AFK, so he's not getting content either. Can't shoot anyone or make ISK while cloaked, the last time I checked.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#493 - 2016-06-22 21:22:34 UTC
LOL. Jita is an economic center for the Caldari. The Caldari are a sovereign state. They by definition actively enforce this sovereignty. Any pilot committing acts of piracy in their economic center would then be dealt with rather HARSHLY. Say...no station will allow you IN ever AGAIN. No jumpgate will ever let you PASS, ever AGAIN. As a criminal you are not allowed to transact business AT ALL of ANY SORT.

You can either ramble aimlessly, endlessly in a pod around Jita. OR biomass and roll another toon.

Add some actuality to this mess, and the mess goes away. The dweebs wanting to "play" by grabbing low hanging fruit (or just in it to make other people ANGRY so they can GIGGLE ABOUT IT) do not add to this game period. They are temps. They do it for free or not at all, so it's not like this convoluted system is saving any CUSTOMERS. We'd all be happier (them too, eventually, as they have tiny attention spans) when they move on to another game to VICTIMIZE.

Management has difficulty grasping certain concepts. The windfall of loudmouths that will argue the above are the ones
DOING IT.

Wouldn't it be nice to get back to a cogent game with a long-ranged process and an evolutionary approach that evoked "long-term commitment" rather than short-sighted appeasement?

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#494 - 2016-06-22 21:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
So how will you avoid the blackbird pointing you to enable the bumpers to get on you, I know the scout, got me there, well lets say thet they have covered all the pipes and you have a scam courier contract that you could not resist and yes I know you would not have taken that contract, and neither would I.

Now we get to the fun part, as I was in Executive Outcomes at one point, I also know that there is a neutral freighter blue list for the most prolific of the gankers, Goons and CODE. So if you are part of that blue list then your risk is only the odd Russian gankers or maybe some PL. People make statements like oh they are bad look at me I do it no issue, but its not the whole story is it...

Not part of any blue list. No.

As to your contrived example, firstly I don't carry scam courier contracts. So that would never happen.

However, even non-scam contracts can be ganked of course, so taking it to something more realistic, just freighting 3-4 packages in a freighter that to gank would be profitable. That happens regularly. Well, I use my own scouts in key systems, standings to help identify gankers/ganker alts easily, Loki links/web with faction webs (55 km overheated range), zkillboard systems stats, chat channel intel and through effective use of scouts (which helps immensely to know in advance if there are blackbirds active), time jumps to avoid trouble. If I'm using a jump freighter, then I have an exit cyno ready to go immediately. There is no way they can gank me with just one chaacter. It requires a fleet of them. Just as they can have a fleet to gank me, I can make use of multiple characters too.

In 8 years, I have never been ganked and I shift multiple freight contracts through highsec almost daily.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#495 - 2016-06-22 21:25:53 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I want to blow up his ship and those taht are with him, hard to do when he is not at his keyboard, seems a bit obvious to me...


He can't touch you when AFK, so he's not getting content either. Can't shoot anyone or make ISK while cloaked, the last time I checked.


That same stupid line yet again, I want to kill the blighter, can't get him to expose himself to risk if he is sleeping or at work and that is all I care about. So you would not be against an AFK flag then.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#496 - 2016-06-22 21:28:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Dracvlad wrote:
I would think that it was extrapolated by looking at those that were ganked and comparing to those that were not and a guess made.

And there it is. You just think, therefore it must be so.

Well as per my earlier post, just because we think something doesn't make it so. CCP have tried to verify the belief that ganking is detrimental, both to new player retention and longer term. In both cases they have failed and they have said so.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#497 - 2016-06-22 21:31:20 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Isaac Armer wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I want to blow up his ship and those taht are with him, hard to do when he is not at his keyboard, seems a bit obvious to me...


He can't touch you when AFK, so he's not getting content either. Can't shoot anyone or make ISK while cloaked, the last time I checked.


That same stupid line yet again, I want to kill the blighter, can't get him to expose himself to risk if he is sleeping or at work and that is all I care about. So you would not be against an AFK flag then.

But can't you just warp around and make bookmarks and according to you, the bookmarks will be made is exactly the same place as the cloaker?

Didn't you say that just a couple of weeks ago?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#498 - 2016-06-22 21:32:57 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
That same stupid line yet again, I want to kill the blighter, can't get him to expose himself to risk if he is sleeping or at work and that is all I care about. So you would not be against an AFK flag then.


I want to kill someone in a station/in a POS, but I can't get him to expose himself to risk if he's sleeping. What can I do about that?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#499 - 2016-06-22 21:33:11 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
They can bump you without you being bad, they use suicide blackbirds to stop you from warping so the Macherial can get on you. It is not a question of being bad for the mainly solo players in hisec, its really a question that so many 0.0 alliances are bad because they make no effort to protect their logistics.

CCP have something in the works for AFK cloaky camping. That being said my issue has always been how can I bait someone when he is AFK and I have no way to tell that he is AFK resulting in so much wasted effort. That factor is ignored by so many people.

One issue is that people like Malcanis and others accuse people who are looking for game balance as being the same as those that want a totally safe hisec, that gets a bit wearing. For example you gave no credit to the gankers here in terms of them being good at what they do, you ignored their tactics that means they catch you even if you are being good by using webbers, it is just so easy to say look they are bad.

However I suggest you pop along to this post and see a ganker in full on whine mode...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479082&find=unread

The poor lamb...


A scout will spot the blackbird. And yeah, sometimes the tactics will change on you and you'll end up on somebody's killboard. Instead of coming her and asking for yet another nerf, people should consider it a learning experience.

If you try to bait and "fail" he is most likely AFK. Try thinking in terms of conditional probability.

Game balance is fine, but you cannot deny there is a considerable element that simply want CCP to "fix the problem" vs. fixing it themselves. This includes having CCP hand them the fix on a silver platter (e.g. just about every suggestion for AFK cloaking). It is pretty much a case of wanting one's cake and getting to eat it too.

And yes, I did give credit where credit is due. I wrote:

Quote:
This is also why we see the “one more nerf” phenomena on the forums. Something will get nerfed, yet when players respond to the nerf with a new approach, tactic, etc. the people calling for the initial nerf, or people like them, are back on the forums whining for another nerf.


Part of this phenomena is that people like CODE. respond to a nerf by finding a new strategy, ship fittings, etc. Then ganking resumes as before or maybe even becoming more common (a case of careful what you wish for). But it can happen whenever people ask for a nerf without considering the consequences.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#500 - 2016-06-22 21:42:09 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I would think that it was extrapolated by looking at those that were ganked and comparing to those that were not and a guess made.

And there it is.

You just think, therefore it must be so, despite the numbers and evidence that has been put out by CCP over the last 2 years. Multiple pieces of evidence.

Well as per my earlier post, just because we think something doesn't make it so. CCP have tried to verify the belief that ganking is detrimental, both to new player retention and longer term. In both cases they have failed and they have said so.


What one survey on a very specific sample, get away with you. Nope its not a case of thinking, its a case of having experience in doing this sort of analysis in RL. And CCP do not ask if the players were ganked and if that is why they de-subbed, so they have to look at that data to select a sample that had been ganked and make comparisons, which is why his statement was so vague. Now if you are unable to work that out, that is your issue not mine.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp