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[118.6] Serpentis Capitals

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Gremk
The Red Island Foundation
#21 - 2016-06-21 16:37:52 UTC
The Vendetta is beyond underwhelming. Same DPS as a nyx/hel with the velocity and extra fighter ehp lol. Oh and the burst webs which is cool but meh. I saw the extra lowslot for the titan but it looks like the super is getting short changed... Only an additional high slot (lol). For that price point, **** that. I'd rather buy 3-4 hels/supers before buying one of these.

TL;DR Titan is pretty cool. A slight DPS bump (1000% compared to 900%), strong webs and also an extra lowslot... but the super looks like **** in comparison. Another big disappointment for me was removing the armor bonus OR the sig bonus that the rag/erebus get. I think it might be pretty cool (and broken but worth the cost) if the titan could do one or MAYBE both of the boosts.

As far as the dread... lol at anything that is going to be that expensive stuck to a 5 minute siege cycle.
Chatelaine Superior
Angels Dust
#22 - 2016-06-21 16:47:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Chatelaine Superior
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends. We'd like to introduce 3 new Serpentis Capitals that will be released with 118.6. There will be available first in the Shadow of the Serpentis event, and later in LP stores. More details about this will be released in a dev blog soon!



i hope gonna be totally new hulls, not just lol skins, or ccp lack of hull designers and creativity in general? i remember was devart competition some time ago and tornado won. There was many designers with awesome hull ideas, whats the point to have 5 different ships in game with same hull, just different color?

common guys internet is getting better everyday, no timeouts for brain frezz ... pls.
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#23 - 2016-06-21 17:29:22 UTC
Chatelaine Superior wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends. We'd like to introduce 3 new Serpentis Capitals that will be released with 118.6. There will be available first in the Shadow of the Serpentis event, and later in LP stores. More details about this will be released in a dev blog soon!



i hope gonna be totally new hulls, not just lol skins, or ccp lack of hull designers and creativity in general? i remember was devart competition some time ago and tornado won. There was many designers with awesome hull ideas, whats the point to have 5 different ships in game with same hull, just different color?

common guys internet is getting better everyday, no timeouts for brain frezz ... pls.

The only Serpentis ship so far that doesn't use the normal Gallente model is the Daredevil. Given the amount of effort required to make new models, I'd expect the capitals to follow the pattern and use the Moros/Nyx/Erebus models.

On another note, the Daredevil is kind of left out in the naming department considering the Serpentis line is Daredevil, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vehement, Vendetta, Vanquisher.
Alexhandr Shkarov
The MorningStar. Syndicate
#24 - 2016-06-21 17:30:12 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I'm really not sure how I feel about a web bonus on a capital ship. It's either going to be *horribly OP* as things get webbed down to almost nothing, or almost useless (probably due to module range), with very little swing in between.

The Vindicator is already a prime example of how powerful something like this can be against smaller targets, and now with HAW fit dreads I'm more than a little scared of what this is going to do to capital/sub-cap engagements.

Also has this been run past the Wormhole crowd? That's the main place I can see something like this getting a lot of use, especially with the combination of webs and super-powered Cap guns on a ship that, at least for now, is likely to only be deployed in small numbers.


Good.

You're not supposed to be able to take these things on easily.
It's so incredibly frustrating to see people desire to small-gang capitals worth 10-15 times your fleet and training efforts.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
Wickedc
Cherry-Poppers
#25 - 2016-06-21 17:44:27 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:

Titan: Vanquisher

“The Molyneux hijack showed me that capsuleers will do extraordinary things when there’s blood in the water. For a while there, I wasn’t sure we’d get away.
Not because of the Feds. No, they were a joke. But the eggers nearly got me. The amusing thing is that they fought one another as much as they tried to catch me.
Some of them even helped out. You know, the trail of destruction we left in our wake was almost entirely due to them. I think it would be amusing to give them some more toys, don’t you?”
- V. Salvador Sarpati, interviewed by Alton Haveri of the Scope.

Gallente Titan bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret rate of fire
6+ bonus to ship warp core strength
Minmatar Titan bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectivness
6+ bonus to ship warp core strength
Role Bonus:
Can fit doomsday devices
Can fit Jump Portal Generator
Can fit Clone Vat Bay
Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously
1000% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage
500% bonus to Armor Plates and Shield Extenders
80% bonus to Remote Sensor Dampener Resistance
80% bonus to Stasis effect resistances
80% increase to Remote Electronic Assistance impedance
5x penalty to Entosis Link cycle time

Slot layout: 8H, 6M, 8L; 6 turrets
3 Rig Slots, 350 Calibration
Fittings: 1,155,000 PWG, 1,045 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 412,000 / 848,000 / 560,000
Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50
Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 35 / 10
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second) : 130,000 / 7,220 / 18
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 70 / 0.037 / 2,100,000,000 / 1.5 / 107.72s
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 250km / 65 / 8
Sensor strength: 240 Magnetometric
Signature radius: 23,205
Cargo capacity: 18,000
Fleet hanger capacity: 100,000
Ship maintenance bay capacity: 5,000,000


So +60 to warp core strength? Cause you get a +6 per level on the Gallente side, and the same bonus on the Minnie side per skill level as well... I mean, I get it. I really do. You're not suppose to have just a few people capable of holding this thing down, but dear Bob..

Gonna see that these are going to be OP as all get out.
thebarry
7-2 Ronin
#26 - 2016-06-21 17:48:56 UTC
Everything looks fine to me except the price I've heard being tossed around for the Vehement....is it really 30b?
Alexhandr Shkarov
The MorningStar. Syndicate
#27 - 2016-06-21 17:49:52 UTC
Wickedc wrote:


So +60 to warp core strength? Cause you get a +6 per level on the Gallente side, and the same bonus on the Minnie side per skill level as well... I mean, I get it. I really do. You're not suppose to have just a few people capable of holding this thing down, but dear Bob..

Gonna see that these are going to be OP as all get out.


Or you bring a HIC and you've got it covered.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
Cade Windstalker
#28 - 2016-06-21 17:54:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:
Good.

You're not supposed to be able to take these things on easily.
It's so incredibly frustrating to see people desire to small-gang capitals worth 10-15 times your fleet and training efforts.


I'm not really suggesting that this is going to stop this from happening either.

Capitals require fleet support to be effective, if you deploy one solo or otherwise without adequate support you deserve to lose it, and CCP's changes over the last two years fit this philosophy.

If someone is using one of these Dreads solo with no support my first concern is going to be bringing enough DPS to break its tank, not its web bonus. Against a solo target the web bonus can be dealt with by simply bringing a scripted HIC or enough Keres to keep the thing scrammed from well outside even overheated and boosted web-range.

In general I'm more concerned that it's going to allow HAW dreads to also play the role of one of their support ships by webbing things down *very* effectively. On the flip side the bonus may end up being more or less dead outside of some niche use in Wormholes where PvE utility and damage potential along with how rich WH groups tend to be make the ships feasible to use. Also in WHs ship-count can be as much a function of logistics as player-count, and engagement ranges can end up at knife-fighting distance due to wormhole jump mechanics and small fleet sizes (though I confess I'm not actually sure how common fighting on a hole is anymore).
Chatelaine Superior
Angels Dust
#29 - 2016-06-21 18:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Chatelaine Superior
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Chatelaine Superior wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends. We'd like to introduce 3 new Serpentis Capitals that will be released with 118.6. There will be available first in the Shadow of the Serpentis event, and later in LP stores. More details about this will be released in a dev blog soon!



i hope gonna be totally new hulls, not just lol skins, or ccp lack of hull designers and creativity in general? i remember was devart competition some time ago and tornado won. There was many designers with awesome hull ideas, whats the point to have 5 different ships in game with same hull, just different color?

common guys internet is getting better everyday, no timeouts for brain frezz ... pls.

The only Serpentis ship so far that doesn't use the normal Gallente model is the Daredevil. Given the amount of effort required to make new models, I'd expect the capitals to follow the pattern and use the Moros/Nyx/Erebus models.

On another note, the Daredevil is kind of left out in the naming department considering the Serpentis line is Daredevil, Vigilant, Vindicator, Vehement, Vendetta, Vanquisher.


deviantart.com 2010 eveonline

why this project was closed down? indeed current game hulls don't have much contest in spaceship stuff, but i bet it can done even better. it's all about ideas. we need ask erebus pilots do they interested to change ship in all cost? new color and low slot for 300 bil. ISK? i guess no, but new interesting hull like daredevil's would be op motivation P

1st pirate faction titan. BPO was stolen from Federation ( we need video) and shared for royalmates. True story why Serpentis Titan looks like Federation Erebus, but how about humans in capital ship building arrays, hard workers and mechanics and how they build the identical capital ship, just different color. Low salary in Federation? Economy immigrants from Federation? Do the Federation got problems with jobs and can went riot? One day Stark, another Bolton, who are you? Or maybe all went robotics and old man don't knows how work the future.
Cade Windstalker
#30 - 2016-06-21 18:03:51 UTC
Chatelaine Superior wrote:
why this project was closed down? indeed current game hulls don't have much contest in spaceship stuff, but i bet it can done even better. it's all about ideas. we need ask erebus pilots do they interested to change ship in all cost? new color and low slot for 300 bil. ISK? i guess no, but new interesting hull like daredevil's would be op motivation P


No hull is ever going to be universally liked. I know some people who think some of the hull changes over the last several years have wrecked various ships where I think the old one was ugly as sin and the new one looks awesome.

Plus it's pretty time consuming to create a new ship model. While I'd love for every faction to have unique Hulls I also get why that's not really feasible, necessarily, in the short term.
Minty Aroma
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-06-21 18:37:18 UTC
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:
Wickedc wrote:


So +60 to warp core strength? Cause you get a +6 per level on the Gallente side, and the same bonus on the Minnie side per skill level as well... I mean, I get it. I really do. You're not suppose to have just a few people capable of holding this thing down, but dear Bob..

Gonna see that these are going to be OP as all get out.


Or you bring a HIC and you've got it covered.


HICs are ****** too TBH - 90% web + HAWs = very dead HIC. Much better bringing 60 Rifters with points (at least you can rep them).
Cade Windstalker
#32 - 2016-06-21 18:46:23 UTC
Minty Aroma wrote:
HICs are ****** too TBH - 90% web + HAWs = very dead HIC. Much better bringing 60 Rifters with points (at least you can rep them).


Except the HIC can use a scripted point from well outside of even fleet boosted and overheated faction web range, with a 30km range on a scripted bubble (vs 24-26 on a fleet-boosted and overheated Faction Web), so the Cap-ship can't web one down to kill it, and if he's speed tanking you from ~28km then good luck hitting him with HAWs without someone else to pin him down.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#33 - 2016-06-21 18:49:18 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Chatelaine Superior wrote:
why this project was closed down? indeed current game hulls don't have much contest in spaceship stuff, but i bet it can done even better. it's all about ideas. we need ask erebus pilots do they interested to change ship in all cost? new color and low slot for 300 bil. ISK? i guess no, but new interesting hull like daredevil's would be op motivation P


No hull is ever going to be universally liked. I know some people who think some of the hull changes over the last several years have wrecked various ships where I think the old one was ugly as sin and the new one looks awesome.

Plus it's pretty time consuming to create a new ship model. While I'd love for every faction to have unique Hulls I also get why that's not really feasible, necessarily, in the short term.


That's a **** poor excuse Cade and you know it. If they want to hype up a launch of a new set of hulls then part of that is in the development of exactly that - new hull models. While the release of t2 ships can be expected to share a model with their t1 variant with a simple reskin, what we are looking at here is supposed to be what makes up the capital fleet of a pirate faction. Something that should be unique to them and make them stand out compared to the rest. If there was ever a reason for new models to be designed this would be it.

As far as the price points go, my only concern really is the Vehement. That thing is going to be stuck in a 5 minute cycle where it can only receive local reps. So unless you gave it some massive OP local rep bonus, or give it a unique passive to receive reps while in siege good luck ever seeing anyone actually field one with that price tag for anything outside of a POCO or offline stick. Since those bonuses are obviously ridiculous I'd suggest lowering it to maybe double the cost of a current dread and leaving it at that.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2016-06-21 18:50:48 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
I'm really not sure how I feel about a web bonus on a capital ship. It's either going to be *horribly OP* as things get webbed down to almost nothing, or almost useless (probably due to module range), with very little swing in between.

The Vindicator is already a prime example of how powerful something like this can be against smaller targets, and now with HAW fit dreads I'm more than a little scared of what this is going to do to capital/sub-cap engagements.

Also has this been run past the Wormhole crowd? That's the main place I can see something like this getting a lot of use, especially with the combination of webs and super-powered Cap guns on a ship that, at least for now, is likely to only be deployed in small numbers.


sure, 90% webs are crazy broken overpowered, but then so are 60% webs
Cade Windstalker
#35 - 2016-06-21 19:00:12 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
That's a **** poor excuse Cade and you know it. If they want to hype up a launch of a new set of hulls then part of that is in the development of exactly that - new hull models. While the release of t2 ships can be expected to share a model with their t1 variant with a simple reskin, what we are looking at here is supposed to be what makes up the capital fleet of a pirate faction. Something that should be unique to them and make them stand out compared to the rest. If there was ever a reason for new models to be designed this would be it.

As far as the price points go, my only concern really is the Vehement. That thing is going to be stuck in a 5 minute cycle where it can only receive local reps. So unless you gave it some massive OP local rep bonus, or give it a unique passive to receive reps while in siege good luck ever seeing anyone actually field one with that price tag for anything outside of a POCO or offline stick. Since those bonuses are obviously ridiculous I'd suggest lowering it to maybe double the cost of a current dread and leaving it at that.


Not trying to make excuses, just trying to share reasoning. With unlimited money I'm sure the devs would love to have shiny new models for tons of different things (and the players certainly request enough of them) so while I agree that these ships would get more love and attention with new models CCP only has so much art budget to spend on various things and something has to lose somewhere. At least with the Serpentis ships there's plenty of precedent for them basically stealing and co-opting Gallente hull designs.

As for the price point I think these are sort of intended to be prohibitively expensive, the same way the Sansha Super Carrier is, not something that a sufficiently rich Null Alliance looks at and says "yeah, lets go out and replace all of our Moros and Nyx dreads and Supers with these things" because they're just flat better. As it is CCP have already proven that cost doesn't actually balance anything with old Titans.
Cade Windstalker
#36 - 2016-06-21 19:05:53 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
sure, 90% webs are crazy broken overpowered, but then so are 60% webs


They're not even remotely comparable. It takes 4 60% webs to get to *approximately* one 90% web's effect, and it's impossible for any practical number of 60% webs to equal the effect of 2 90% ones.

The effect of a normal 60% web is actually pretty well balanced. A ship using a MWD that gets caught by an AB fitted ship with a web can actually still escape with careful and skillful flying, and some can even still speed tank semi-effectively (mostly with Faction mods). A 90% web just nails you to the ground while you get pounded into dust, with a 2km/s ship being webbed down to below the top speed of a Vindi with no prop mod, and two 90% webs bringing any practically fitted ship down to below 200m/s.
Mr Hyde113
#37 - 2016-06-21 19:17:11 UTC
The HAW Vehement will wreak havoc against the frigate menace.
Cade Windstalker
#38 - 2016-06-21 20:02:19 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
The HAW Vehement will wreak havoc against the frigate menace.


"Okay guys, I've started locking the frigates, back after a bio-break"
Michael Pawlicki
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry.
Mouth Trumpet Cavalry
#39 - 2016-06-21 20:07:57 UTC
Mr Hyde113 wrote:
The HAW Vehement will wreak havoc against the frigate menace.


Slap some target painters on there and you'll be killing frigs for days.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#40 - 2016-06-21 20:15:00 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
sure, 90% webs are crazy broken overpowered, but then so are 60% webs


They're not even remotely comparable. It takes 4 60% webs to get to *approximately* one 90% web's effect, and it's impossible for any practical number of 60% webs to equal the effect of 2 90% ones.

The effect of a normal 60% web is actually pretty well balanced. A ship using a MWD that gets caught by an AB fitted ship with a web can actually still escape with careful and skillful flying, and some can even still speed tank semi-effectively (mostly with Faction mods). A 90% web just nails you to the ground while you get pounded into dust, with a 2km/s ship being webbed down to below the top speed of a Vindi with no prop mod, and two 90% webs bringing any practically fitted ship down to below 200m/s.


2 60% webs and a couple of painters lets pretty much anything hit pretty much anything. want to avoid damage from anti-capital/structure weapons in your cruiser? you can't, there's some ships on field with webs, so you die instantly