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[Skill Prereq Tweaks] AWU and more!

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Author
Oliver Ward
Doomheim
#61 - 2016-05-30 13:48:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Oliver Ward
BoomBoss wrote:

Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?

Those all require several other skills to be trained to V, as well. The 9- to 10-day train that WU V has is a drop in the bucket compared to the month-plus long trains that many of the other prereqs have. Making AWU more accessible barely affects them compared to the long trains that the rest of the skills have.

What making AWU more accessible does do is it makes it easier for new chars and players to get tight fittings in.

Edit :: Using default attributes and no implants:

Tactical Weapon Reconfig: Reduced from 47 days to 38 days.
Doomsday Operation: Reduced from 64 days to 55 days.
Marauders: Reduced from 65 days to 56 days.

Do note that those are the base skills, just for those particular skills. To actually sit in a Marauder, removing WU V as a pre-req for AWU reduces the train for, say, a Kronos with minimum possible skills from 115 days to 106 days.

To simply sit in a Moros, removing the WU V requirement reduces the minimum possible train from 106 days to 97 days.

To simply sit in an Erebus, you don't even need to train Doomsday Operation, making the whole thing largely moot.

To actually have decent skills to use any of the above, you're looking at trains closing in on six months, at a minimum, and with the capitals, you're looking at a year or longer.

Nine days isn't going to matter in the long-run for those intentions, but can be huge when trying to get a new player or character into a tight fit to be able to be more effective in their group.
James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2016-05-30 15:01:22 UTC
No complaints here. Getting to WU V sucked, especially when I needed PG more than CPU and I'd be happy to see going to WU V be more of a choice.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#63 - 2016-05-30 15:42:59 UTC
Maunreyzi wrote:
Why not rename them into Weapon Power Grid Upgrades and Weapon CPU Upgrades?


Fozzie, I fully support your proposal and think the above is a good suggestion.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Uncle Dunk
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2016-05-30 17:00:34 UTC
Maybe do the same for spaceship command.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#65 - 2016-05-30 17:14:07 UTC
Good change.

Not fussed about the naming or primary/secondary attributes.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-05-30 19:49:51 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:


Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?


Except they are not only useful for those listed ship. Even frigates make good use of AWU because of the grid fitting reduction for weapon.

This part, "Reduces the powergrid needs of weapon turrets and launchers by 2% per skill level." is important for all ship class.
Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
#67 - 2016-05-30 21:37:12 UTC
Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p

Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#68 - 2016-05-31 03:30:40 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
Lord Valian wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.

The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.

Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it.


Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion.



Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?




.... it's also used for oh idk... fitting anything from rookie ship and up?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2016-05-31 04:20:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


.... it's also used for oh idk... fitting anything from rookie ship and up?


People have had them trained for so long they don't remember how ****** the fitting experience can be when you don't have them.
Pinkylein
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#70 - 2016-05-31 07:12:07 UTC
Well i would not see even a problem in completely seperating them, although the names indicates that WU is a train before AWU.

But if you change it the way you propose it, i would like to see the change that the resulting ships out of AWU V or at least those skills will still need the requirement to have WU to V, which would not change the training time you need to sit in a marauder for example.
Darkblad
#71 - 2016-05-31 09:08:31 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p
118.5 hits today and its name is ...?



I for one stick with what ccp is using internally. Earl for the one that gets deployed today and Fiona for the June update.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#72 - 2016-05-31 11:05:11 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
Good stuff, but "update 118.6" is only a month away - why don't you have a proper name for it yet? :p
118.5 hits today and its name is ...?

I for one stick with what ccp is using internally. Earl for the one that gets deployed today and Fiona for the June update.


It's supposed to be a secret, duh.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#73 - 2016-05-31 11:13:12 UTC
BoomBoss wrote:
Lord Valian wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.

The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.

Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it.


Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion.



Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?



If that were the primary purpose of AWU 5 I'd agree with your post.

However AWU is essential for fitting tech 2 equipment to ships, by virtue of its role increasing your available fitting (by decreasing the amount your weapons consume).

Rookies who don't yet have CPU Management 5 and Powergrid Management 5 actually gain more from AWU than people like me do.

This is a game balance change that increases the relative power of new players and new characters at the expense of veteran characters. I can get behind that.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

BoomBoss
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#74 - 2016-05-31 13:54:15 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
Lord Valian wrote:
BoomBoss wrote:
Why do you people point at newbro's when nerfing skill requirements? What benefit is it for them? Remember, this is not a themepark game. What you lose here is gone forever.

The skill requirements are there so they actually value something and make the correct decision on what to train and what they want.

Let the newbro's learn how to use the stuff they have learned sofar instead of making it easier for them to get to use the advanced stuff of which they have absolutely no clue how to use it, only because they could near instantly train into it.


Best way to learn is getting into it and fly. Waiting 3 months to train a skill in order to train another skill is not a good system. All these changes which make the game more accessible are great in my opinion.



Advanced weapon upgrades is used for advanced battleships, dreads and above from the top of my head. What is the point of having a newbro fly one of those if they are not even capable of properly flying a frig?



If that were the primary purpose of AWU 5 I'd agree with your post.

However AWU is essential for fitting tech 2 equipment to ships, by virtue of its role increasing your available fitting (by decreasing the amount your weapons consume).

Rookies who don't yet have CPU Management 5 and Powergrid Management 5 actually gain more from AWU than people like me do.

This is a game balance change that increases the relative power of new players and new characters at the expense of veteran characters. I can get behind that.


Ah yeah, did not realise it is for fitting purposes as well. If this helps the newbro's with some fitting issues then yes, I too think this change is good. I know far too well how fitting ships can be a hassle when you are missing that few CPU or PG points.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#75 - 2016-05-31 14:09:27 UTC
I am fine with this. As long as you're looking at those skills, changing the names to more accurately reflect what they do would be great. For example, Weapon CPU Efficiency and Weapon Power Efficiency or Upgrades.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Cenwarde
Symmetric Symbioses
#76 - 2016-05-31 20:16:23 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away.


Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#77 - 2016-05-31 21:21:48 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
I am fine with this. As long as you're looking at those skills, changing the names to more accurately reflect what they do would be great. For example, Weapon CPU Efficiency and Weapon Power Efficiency or Upgrades.


I can get behind it too when I see another 256.000 skillpoints I can put into the ludacris fighter skillbook screwover.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Jenna Sol
hanging by a threat
The Syndicate of Silence
#78 - 2016-05-31 22:19:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenna Sol
I support this change... I think it makes sense.

Could maybe also change requirements so that Mining Drone II can be used at Mining Drone Operator LVL 4 instead of LVL5.

It's a bit strange that you have to max the skill that affects mining drone yield to get access to T2 mining drones.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#79 - 2016-06-01 01:32:14 UTC
Eternity Mistseeker wrote:
Weapons Upgrades 5 was always a pain as you really did not care, you just wanted the weapons power grid reductions to make your fit.

Weapons Upgrades should have prerequisites Gunnery 4 and CPU Management 4, Advanced Weapons Upgrades should have prerequisites Gunnery 4 and Power Grid Management 4.

Weapons Upgrades should be increased from a 2x (because i have an evil side and it makes HACs a bit more effort), and Advanced Weapons Upgrades kept at 6x.

Oh and rename as well.

That's stupid. Why don't we make Missile Launcher Operation IV a prerequisite for Hull Upgrades and Shield Managment? Force you to train a skill unrelated to your end goal in order to train a skill you need for something else. For anyone trying to do a missile focus that's what that would force.


Cenwarde wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Can you reduce the prerequisites for Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation 5 to level 4 too while you're here. All the gunnery support skills are unlocked from Gunnery 5, and only Gunnery 5 is required for Battleship guns, which is true for Battleship missile types too with MLO 5 but it currently is a huge road block for new missile characters as it's the most important application skill and it's walled away.


Seriously?!? Missile Launcher Operations is a four and a half day train at most. That is hardly a wall.

Alright. Then change Motion Prediction to require Gunnery V. Force your Newbros to train a Gunnery to V adding over half a week before they can even start shooting other people.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#80 - 2016-06-01 01:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarisen Gream
I call for a skill tier-e-cide. Give to us what you have done to ships and modules but for skills.

Update them to fit the modern EVE. Make them more clear, and streamlined. Better grouping of skills. Updating the multipliers and the SP requirements. Move requirements for ships and modules to level 1 or level 4 based on t1 and t2 modules/ships. With level V of a skill being the cherry on top. Don't have any skill require another skill at V.

This isn't to make the game any easier or dumb proof... It would be to make the game easier to get into, but the players would still have one hell of a learning curb to master the mechanics.

edit: just thought, maybe it was possible. make level V support skills required for the level V of specialized skills.
This would say let a person get buy with small blaster specialization at level IV with the support skills at IV, but they would need to max out the support skills before they got SBS to V.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

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