Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I would like to suggest CCP implement an industrial contract option, in which the Contract Creator can provide materials, BP and set a collateral, with an expected due date for delivery of the industrial output along with the BP (if original or has any remaining runs), and of course a payment.

You can't do what I'm asking for in the current contract system.

Used to do this when I ran industry. We would contract the BPC (never give out originals, unless you're willing to lose them), and the materials with the price set as our cost. They would contract it back for a set price depending on the item, and we would then do whatever with the item.

It helps to have something in place to track what's floating around - I used google sheets.

Thank you for proving my point. That's two contracts. I want one contract, which gives you the materials & BPC (& takes the collateral) when you accept, and is completed (paying you and giving you the collateral back) when you hand over the finished item.


EDIT: The reason I'm asking for this is so that there can be a real market in industrial capability trading. People would be able to see contracts to build X number of Y item (ideally with a filter on the skills used to do it), and pick up contracts from people wanting items built quickly & easily. This isn't about getting your Corpies to build stuff for you, it's about opening industrial contracting up to a wider market.

To me, it's a fact that *not* having this option limits player interaction, because there's no guaranteed way of setting up industrial arrangements with people you don't know. The idea here is to expand industry *beyond* the confines of Corp & Alliance.

Using your logic courier contracts should not be a thing either, because that can be covered under a normal contract as well: create contract to sell x in Amarr, create contract to buy x in Jita. Persons buys item from contract in Amarr, freighters it over to Jita, sells it to the same person on contract.

While you are correct, there is no "legal" binding aspect to contracts of this nature done under the current system. The entire transaction is built on the promise of a return contract. Which works great between entities that have the means to contact one another in a semi trusted manner, or have the might to back things up if a deal goes south. View this from the solo perspective though. There is no way to initialize the conversation about a transaction like this. There is no reason for a producer or contractor to trust getting anything out of the deal. Set the price high and no one will touch it, create a collateral system and people will realize it is a temporary cost... unless things are worked out before hand and there is already some trust there. Right now this only happens when producer and consumer already establish a connection, usually through a third party like a corp or across corps/alliances. It is them meeting for other reasons or through/because of other entities (other than one on one) that starts that exchange of trust.

This wouldn't limit player interaction either, it would do wonders for the less established industrialists and would likely encourage connections. When I first started I didn't want to join a crappy HS industrial corp and have to deal with all the drama and politics that goes along with one man shows (which the majority of them are), but I needed the connections to actually accomplish anything of meaning. Using contracts like this means that I can see who completed a job fast and hook up with a reliable producer/consumer without needing a corp or the faceless market to do it. It would allow for the different stages of a production chain to actually see who is who without the need to initialize on blind trust or join a larger structure outright. This allows industrialist to connect in the same fashion that killboards do for pvpers. It would likely establish the trust needed to start actual good functioning industrial corps. It is kind of like going to a market (proposed contract system) vs going to the super market (buying and selling off the market) vs buying something off a random truck on the side of the road (current contract system). You can see the people selling/producing and there is a legal entity governing the whole thing. While there is nothing wrong with buying something off a random truck, less people do it because there is less trust. In the same fashion people value knowing where something is produced because more trust is established in the process, so they pay more for it IRL. In game trust is the currency that is being earned... isk to, but it break the metaphor. Seeing a producer, being able to trust a producer on the initial engagement, leads to higher trust gains earlier on, which leads to people paying more in both isk and trust, just like when knowing where something is produced IRL.

This is a great tool for new players, not bitter vets who are already established. It lowers the barrier for entry, while maintaining the ceiling.


Now For something actually constructive. This could be applied to PI chains, invention or any multi-step industrial process. Why limit it to just T1 production. It could provide the security for caps and supers to be produced beyond a single person running the whole production process. It also could be used in the same manner as courier contracts are for scamming. I would limit it to just BPCs though. This is a perfect application for them to be used outside of invention.

You need to go back and look at your proposal from all possible angles because you have not thought this through completely.
Just one example you contract me the bpc and materials to build 100 Rifters expecting that I will build the ships and then complete the contract by allowing you to take delivery of those ships. But being the creative and opportunistic guy that I am I simply transfer the BPC and the materials to another character and build them and sell them myself. What actions can you take now to get your Rifters back?
A bounty is worthless I have flown with bounties for most of my time in this game.
You could war dec the corp but what the hell been there before as welll, simply reassign an alt to the CEO position and bail to an NPC or simply play on other characters for the week and all your war dec is doing is costing you even more money than I already stole from you.
And what if I use a disposable character to accept your contract, transfer the stuff and then biomass the character, what can you do then?

After reading you other posts I still say no to your idea.
The only thing that would change is the removal of the second contract needed to transfer your stuff back to you after it is built and to be honest that is simply not worth the devs time to eliminate. Especially since your idea does nothing to solve the inherent risks associated with letting a contract to someone you do not know and trust in a game where there are so many ways to steal your stuff and there is nothing you can do to prevent it or to punish me after.

BUT WHY

why would anyone use this


If its just some random person then you have to put up a high collateral so i need more isk to start with. so i could have just bought the mats and BPC on my own.

then you have the fact that either i am being payed over market price (or why am i doing it rather than just selling to the market) or you are paying under(why would i pay over market price at that rate i could just buy it)


so the only reason to use this is if person A does not have the isk to cover the build cost so person B can front him that and get the end product cheaper. but if A has to pay collateral then he has the isk to do this on his own and if B is not charging high collateral then odds are they know each other and can do things the way they are done now

while a market order may not be a guaranteed sail if the one you were looking at is gone when the job is done good chance it wont be the last one bought in that range


and it really is not hard to set up an arrangement with other entities to run jobs like this it's how indi corps and individuals have worked for years in this kind of thing.

even as some one just starting out with no contacts in the game just sending out a few mails untill you find an interested party is all you need to do. Trust is what makes eve great the fact that yes you can get screwed over makes relationships that you have built on trust that much more worth while.


Eve does not need safety nets in areas that are currently working w/o them

except people do start these jobs. yes there is risk but there is also reward. just because you don't have the cajones doesn't mean others dont