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Recurring opportunities will be deployed on May 24th

Author
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#121 - 2016-05-21 00:12:31 UTC
OMG, SP frenzy!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#122 - 2016-05-21 00:18:36 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended.

Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.
Wanda Fayne
#123 - 2016-05-21 00:29:58 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.
Can I have your stuff?


You can come, I'll give you the antimatter firstP

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Pix Severus
Empty You
#124 - 2016-05-21 00:30:10 UTC
I don't know about you guys, but whenever I warp to an asteroid belt, all the miners pack-up and leave immediately.

After this update goes live, combat ships are going to be warping to belts all over highsec. I image some miners are going to have a hard time!

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2016-05-21 00:34:39 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
After this update goes live, rookie ships are going to be warping to belts all over highsec.

FTFY

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#126 - 2016-05-21 00:38:12 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I've yet to see a valid argument as to why this new thing will 'break' EVE that isn't coming from one of those 3 mindsets, and I've read a LOT of arguments against it.


plasticsurgerycandidate2 wrote:
Sorry man, but this is a terrible idea.

- Feeling forced to log in each day to get your sp
- Feeling like you're missing out when you can't log in or forget
- Forcing characters that have nothing to do with pve to undock and find an asteroid belt to get their sp
- Forcing characters with highly valuable implant sets to risk them for their sp (think what titan/super pilots have)
- Will benefit those that stay home from the front lines to rat more than those that deploy for wars
- Easier for more skilled players to do as they can 1 volly a npc on their chars whereas newbie players will have to commit several minutes to finding a npc, then killing it.
- Newbie players won't realize they can do it on all 3 chars on their account regardless of if they're training.
- Newbie players won't necessarily have 3 chars on their account to do it with as they don't realize it's beneficial.
- Creates SP out of thin air instead of earning them by spending time training or buying them from someone that spent time training
- Penalizes FCs/CEOs/Diplomats/Etc... that don't have the time to undock and find a npc to shoot because they're too busy with other important stuff.
- Rewards players for doing next to nothing. Seriously, logging in a char, warping to a belt, killing a npc, and logging out is not going to create content for the game.
- Significantly increase the load on the auth servers when chars are logging in and out a lot more frequently.
- Keeps players in highsec longer as it's super easy to kill npcs there, whereas lowsec and nullsec npcs might be more challenging.
- Greatly impacts the "play how you want" mentality by forcing players to engage in activities they have no interest in or get penalized.
- Undermines eve's progression mechanics further than skill injectors already did.
- Penalizes those that value their -10 sec status.
- Penalizes characters stuck in supercaps (because they don't have a citadel they can dock at)
- Penalizes wormhollers that have to scan down a k-space hole and kill a npc outside of w-space each day.
- etc...


It's a terrible idea that leads to a slippery slope.
- SP should be earned through training (either by you or someone else you buy the sp off of)
- Forcing players to log in all their characters each day to get extra sp will lead to burnout (i know it won't be sustainable for me with 30 characters, about 21 are just alts for other activities (cynos, etc...))
- Should be limited to new players if introduced at all.

CCP Rise wrote:
Feedback appreciate as always

Sure it is... just like our feedback on the market tax changes was appreciated.


Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2016-05-21 02:10:28 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.

Agree 100% and more importantly, whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?


Before anyone rages on me for standing against this new fountain of free skillpoints I'd like to go on record that I've been a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can ever since I first started playing this game 8 yrs ago.

Some of the very first skills I focused on training to max level were the Learning Skills.

Also as soon as I could afford them I got a full set of +5 Attribute Implants and have never used a Jump Clone since.

Due to long term plans which are still in effect, all of that was done for the reward of gaining max skillpoint training time, despite the huge risk of losing the Implants by being podded. Yes I didn't like it when CCP removed the Learning skills. Yes they cost me lot's of time, effort and ISK to get their reward. Yes those skillpoints were reimbursed and allocated for other skills, however that's not the point. I had already made the decision to forgo training regular skills early in order to gain a higher rate of training time afterwards.

Yes Neural Remapping is used to help increase skill training time but quite frankly it's use is limited and the reward from it is just a small increase in training time. And since I train various skills from different skill groups I decided a long time ago it's not an option I'd greatly miss using.

Skill Injectors. I like the idea of being able to remove skillpoints from a certain skill group to add to another skill group. That's fine since it only re-allocates skillpoints and doesn't increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. However I'm totally against bypassing training time with the ability to buy and increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. Despite what others may say, in reality this is nothing more than pay to win.

Case in point = Brand new character pays to have max level in all skills.

Recurring Opportunities for free skillpoints. NO NO NO. Even though it's a low amount of skillpoints, it still adds up over time and once again it bypasses training time. More importantly, it breaks the sandbox and turns it into more of a theme park. It's a reward that involves little to no risk, great consequences for very little action. In my opinion just another example of CCP's poor planning that's another step towards catering to the Instant Gratification crowd.

Even though I don't like it, guess I'll partake in this new game exploit. Definitely log in every day, warp to a high sec belt, destroy 1 NPC, redock and log out knowing I just gained an extra 10k skillpoints for 5 minutes of time.


DMC


T-Jay Charante
Black Sun Industry and Research
#128 - 2016-05-21 02:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: T-Jay Charante
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.

Agree 100% and more importantly, whatever happened to Risk v Reward & Actions v Consequences ?


Before anyone rages on me for standing against this new fountain of free skillpoints I'd like to go on record that I've been a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can ever since I first started playing this game 8 yrs ago.

Some of the very first skills I focused on training to max level were the Learning Skills.

Also as soon as I could afford them I got a full set of +5 Attribute Implants and have never used a Jump Clone since.

Due to long term plans which are still in effect, all of that was done for the reward of gaining max skillpoint training time, despite the huge risk of losing the Implants by being podded. Yes I didn't like it when CCP removed the Learning skills. Yes they cost me lot's of time, effort and ISK to get their reward. Yes those skillpoints were reimbursed and allocated for other skills, however that's not the point. I had already made the decision to forgo training regular skills early in order to gain a higher rate of training time afterwards.

Yes Neural Remapping is used to help increase skill training time but quite frankly it's use is limited and the reward from it is just a small increase in training time. And since I train various skills from different skill groups I decided a long time ago it's not an option I'd greatly miss using.

Skill Injectors. I like the idea of being able to remove skillpoints from a certain skill group to add to another skill group. That's fine since it only re-allocates skillpoints and doesn't increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. However I'm totally against bypassing training time with the ability to buy and increase the characters total amount of skillpoints. Despite what others may say, in reality this is nothing more than pay to win.

Case in point = Brand new character pays to have max level in all skills.

Recurring Opportunities for free skillpoints. NO NO NO. Even though it's a low amount of skillpoints, it still adds up over time and once again it bypasses training time. More importantly, it breaks the sandbox and turns it into more of a theme park. It's a reward that involves little to no risk, great consequences for very little action. In my opinion just another example of CCP's poor planning that's another step towards catering to the Instant Gratification crowd.

Even though I don't like it, guess I'll partake in this new game exploit. Definitely log in every day, warp to a high sec belt, destroy 1 NPC, redock and log out knowing I just gained an extra 10k skillpoints for 5 minutes of time.


DMC




Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?

I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#129 - 2016-05-21 03:27:09 UTC
At first I was like "naw."
Then I was like "chyah!"
Now I'm like "eh."

More sp for newbros to quickly unlock ships and mods. Something else for me to forget to do on my main.

I set my skill queue to 500 days. That's 5,000,000 sp or 2ish rank 8s worth of "dailies." I won't say no, but I also won't lose sleep over not doing it for weeks at a time.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2016-05-21 03:50:43 UTC
T-Jay Charante wrote:


Have you really only been blown up once in 8 years?

I mean it's great you go on about risk and reward and all, but was the last time you undocked in 2011?
I'll answer your questions even though it's off topic.

Yeah, my ship was destroyed and I was podded only once by PvP even though there's been well over a dozen attempts done by various other players within the past 8 years.

Also you're quite the fool if you think I've never undocked since 2011. I'm a cloaky Nomadic Explorer who also does Event Agent missions. Being safe is all about flying smart.

Obviously you missed the whole point of my post. As I've already said, I'm a firm believer in acquiring as many skillpoints as quickly as I can but in my opinion these Recurring Opportunities is in direct opposition to the core principles of this game.



DMC
Lugh Crow-Slave
#131 - 2016-05-21 04:03:35 UTC
"F" for the sandbox
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#132 - 2016-05-21 06:20:02 UTC
WoW did event spam, too. They saw the login count increased for events, so they had more of them.
It went from "Ooh, cool, event!" to "Which one this week? Meh, I'll catch the next one."

Some things just have to stay special.

A signature :o

Solhild
Doomheim
#133 - 2016-05-21 07:00:30 UTC
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)
Solhild
Doomheim
#134 - 2016-05-21 07:04:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended.

Dailies do not help retention. They create fake inflation of log in numbers briefly then lead to burnt out players. And the log ins do not create significant content, but mindless PvE tasks where the player is literally only in space long enough to shoot a single rat then redock asap.
The entire CCP argument is quite frankly BS. And goes directly against the entire design philosophy of the sandbox.


I agree with this response. This 'may' actually remove casual players who sub their accounts with real cash as they are disadvantaged by not being able to log in and play frequently.

Real shame.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2016-05-21 07:48:42 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)


Every single account is a "real money" one...
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#136 - 2016-05-21 07:49:38 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Well, if you are in an semi active corp and you log in to get the SP, there is a big chance you will be convinced to join a fleet ops. I could see how this could increase the amount of time I am online, at least with the ceo I have. So it might increase the activity of some players beyond the five min login to get SP. I guess we will just have to wait and see if the changes are significant and measurable in half a year. Everything else is just predictions and guesswork.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2016-05-21 08:09:28 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)

Can I have your stuff? Else you will buy Plex and CCP will get 14$ more each month then with a 2 subs. They will be impressed with your dedication.Roll
Plex is real money from CCPs side and plexing an account is more expensive then a sub: Plex 19$, sub 12$.

I'm really tired of all these "I'm canceling my sub if CCP doesn't do what I want". Eve has over 500.000 accounts so you can bet that a lot accounts get canceled every month.
Solhild
Doomheim
#138 - 2016-05-21 08:24:18 UTC
Geronimo McVain wrote:
Solhild wrote:
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)

Can I have your stuff? Else you will buy Plex and CCP will get 14$ more each month then with a 2 subs. They will be impressed with your dedication.Roll
Plex is real money from CCPs side and plexing an account is more expensive then a sub: Plex 19$, sub 12$.

I'm really tired of all these "I'm canceling my sub if CCP doesn't do what I want". Eve has over 500.000 accounts so you can bet that a lot accounts get canceled every month.


Ho hum - we all get that most plexes are originally sourced from money, other plexes appear for different reasons. You know this already but are forgetting.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#139 - 2016-05-21 10:29:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
you might get some stuff from those who decide to quit in your alliance, especially when you cant form a fleet because most of your alliance is doing dailies all over the place to get the unique rewards and level up to max raven pilot with golden mount. Roll
I don't think shooting one rat will take up that much time. Besides, we already can;t form fleets cos we're a dead alliance right? Right?

Stop being so salty. If you don't like it, say so with your wallet and leave. Simples.

David Therman wrote:
If the straw that breaks the camels back is indeed placed upon you, can I have your stuff please? Smile

(I did say the magic word)
Dammit! If only I'd known the magic word was "camels".

Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Dailies do not help retention.
Shocked Please cite your source. CCPs own research showed them that getting people to log in (via the old 24 hour skill queue method) increased player activity and that activity increases retention. If just logging in to chuck a skill in the queue was enough to generate activity, getting someone to log in and undock every day certain will. And this will be vastly improved when they add more opportunities with other playstyles as it will encourage players who want the rewards to do things they normally wouldn't do.

Wanda Fayne wrote:
You can come, I'll give you the antimatter firstP
Sad I don't like being on fire.

Lan Wang wrote:
*Giant repost of plasticsurgerycandidate2's post*
A good half of those arguments an be responded to with simply "lol, nope". I mean the first bunch and all boil down to the same thing, which reworded could be seen as "If an opportunity exists and I don't take it, then I feel left out thus options existing is forcing me, and if I don't do it I'm unfairly missing out". That in itself is ridiculous, and there's already hundreds of things people could do every day but don;t and therefore already miss out, so how are they not already being forced?

Then there's a few that seem to go on about 3 characters, which is irrelevant since you can only do it on one character per account.

"SP out of thin air", that's a good one since in the last month I've generated at least 50m SP that I previously would not have generated because I've rolled additional characters to do so.

Then we get back onto "some people can't do it" all of which is garbage. An FC or CEO can't shoot a single rat? Complete and utter rubibish.

Then there's the "keeps players in highsec", which it won;t do any more than they already are. Anyone outside of highsec already knows how to shoot a rat, and with these opportunities not existing it's unlikely some in highsec will say "well I'm not being paid SP to shoot one rat so I'll move to lowsec!".

Probably my favourite though is "Penalizes those that value their -10 sec status". Like they can't possibly counter the sec status gain from shooting a single rat.

And all in all it still misses the point that this is the first in a whole range of new opportunities.

I do find it amusing though that he has such an issue with these opportunities, but has no problem suggesting that the feature should be locked to new players only. Because locking content to one type of player is saving the sandbox, right? Newbies will already gain more by it being a fixed amount, allowing them to train whole levels of a skill off of it, while older players will barely notice it.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#140 - 2016-05-21 10:36:30 UTC
Solhild wrote:
Two accounts unsubbed (real money ones too!)
Stuff? I have an additional 32 characters training, and know many others are doing similar, so they might take a while to notice.

Solhild wrote:
Ho hum - we all get that most plexes are originally sourced from money, other plexes appear for different reasons. You know this already but are forgetting.
Doesn't matter how the PLEX got onto the account, it's still directly tied to income for CCP. Pretending they are going to care more about a credit card paid sub than a PLEX paid sub is fundamentally misunderstanding how the PLEX model works.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.