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Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#101 - 2016-05-20 18:46:04 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:

Dumbest way of fixing mistakes, ever.

CCP misses the ball, to put it nicely, by going overboard with the skill queue, which in result creates a considerable chunk of EVE players not logging in. Instead of fixing this by reverting the skill queue debacle we get 'dailies' and more to come.

CCP Seagul wasn't here when we had the so called 'Ghost training' in which your skill kept training even if your account had expired. Then at some point someone at CCP does the math, falls of his/her chair and runs to Hilmar screaming you have NO IDEA how much money we lose over this. So in 2 days time CCP "fixes" this once documented feature but instead of telling their player base the truth -> "ghost training, big mistake, we lose lots of money, we sorry", they hang up lies and spin so the forums explode.

Back to today, the near unlimited skill queue is a big mistake, CCP loses big chunks of money over this but afraid as they are these days (HTFU, who?) of their player base instead of fixing it by reverting the mistake made by their lead dev we get this sh*t.

To be honest, I think that if you would put this by your player base -> "we made big mistake, skill queue overboard, we lose money, we going to limit it, we sorry", people would had understood it.


Now you just poop in our sandbox with this awkward, cowardly approach instead of actually tackling your problem.


You are seriously arguing that the skill queue is a bad thing?
Vollhov Jr
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2016-05-20 19:04:56 UTC
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2016-05-20 19:10:20 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:

So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?

The idea of having learning implants alone needs to be revisited, much less adding dailies like we're in WoW. What playstyle requires pirate set implants? If you want to use mental gymnastics to justify dumbing down this game, it's your call.

If you have pure industrial accounts, you will most likely make more money doing your Job then hunting rats. In the end with the earned money you can buy an injector.
CCP is giving you an opportunity. Any industrial char with maybe 1 day Training can do Level 1 Missions. If you want to risk the +5 imps for some lousy SP is up to you.
This amount of SP will neither make or break Eve. In every other game you have to grind to raise but eve is the only game where you raise by time. Dailys are a break to this but it's still a choice and not a must do.
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#104 - 2016-05-20 19:14:02 UTC
Isaac Armer wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
What game mechanic prohibit you logging every day and kill a NPC? None. It a choice you make.

What game mechanic stop you from using +5 implants and instead use other implants or none? None. It is a choice you make.

Plenty of PvPers don't use high end stat boosting implants because they have a good chance to lose them or because they prefer sets that give different bonuses at the expense of lower stats, so we have playstiles that prefer less SP for other bonuses.

What game balance go out of the window? The one where I have more than 100 million SP and a newbie has some thousand?
The one where a guy with a few hundred thousand SP can fly a T2 frigate as well as me?
You have a strange idea of where the game balance in EVE rest.


If I'm in a non-combat ship undocked for a week straight I can't kill anything. I can still plug in +5s. So one more time, what game mechanic prevents you from fitting +5s? If I'm a pure industrialist, I'm not going to be able to kill a rat every day, I can still easily use any implant I want.

All playstyles should earn SPs at the same rate. That's been a core tenant of EVE for a long time. Hell, if it were up to me learning implants, attributes and skill injectors wouldn't exist in the game.

I've only been playing EVE for a year. I don't want to be a special snowflake and have my hand held so I can catch up to vets. I want to find my niche where I can beat them in spite of having significantly less SPs. That's one of the great things about EVE. Ideas like this (and skill injectors) just cater to the lazy who don't want to figure out the puzzle and find that niche where they can excel.


1) Not everyone earns SP at the same rate, the rate change depending on your characteristics (implants included), isk (skill injector) and RL income (again, skill injectors)

2) What are you doing that require you to stay for a week in a non combat ship without a chance to go away for even a few minutes? I have killed rats with industrials, the only ships that can't kill anything are those that lack both high slots and drone bays. You are staying in a freighter for weeks, without ever docking?

Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#105 - 2016-05-20 19:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Isaac Armer wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
When you have any pirate set plugged in since they cap out at +4?

If you can pretend it's impossible for you to change ship to get in one that can at least field a weapon system, people should be able to pretend they can't get out of their pirate set which isn't a +5 set. In both case, saying it's impossible to go around is blatantly false but hey, if you want to roll in bad arguments, it's your call.


So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?

The idea of having learning implants alone needs to be revisited, much less adding dailies like we're in WoW. What playstyle requires pirate set implants? If you want to use mental gymnastics to justify dumbing down this game, it's your call.


You have missed the time where you had to learn the learning skills and advanced learning skills to increase your stats. More than a month of training to get better at training.
Enjoy your free ride.


And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a nood gund and a noob frigate.
NovaCat13
Ember Interstellar Inc.
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#106 - 2016-05-20 19:19:55 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
You are seriously arguing that the skill queue is a bad thing?


CCP is arguing it is. So here it is again:

CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.

Just say NO to Dailies
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#107 - 2016-05-20 19:27:15 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a nood gund and a noob frigate.


how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#108 - 2016-05-20 19:49:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Shayla Etherodyne
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate.


how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"


So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills.
You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing?

Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons.
With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial.
So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second.

Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#109 - 2016-05-20 20:01:58 UTC
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate.


how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"


So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills.
You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing?

Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons.
With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial.
So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second.

Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/


did i ever say i was a non combat character?

im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?

your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Wanda Fayne
#110 - 2016-05-20 20:10:59 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:
And your "pure industrial character" has the set of starting skills so he can sue a noob gun and a noob frigate.


how pathetic does that sound in a sandbox that has been running for 13 years "fit a noob gun to a noob ship and go collect your daily amulet because thats all the developers could think of for the other playstyles who dont do this sort of thing"


So you cry because other people will get 10k sp/day after spending a few SP to get them, while you don't want to spend any SP in combat skills.
You really don't have trained any combat related skill? What you do, station trading with max broker fee as you have no standing?

Piloting a freighter require at least industrial 5 and today the industrials can mount several weapons.
With less than 5.000 sp you can use a light missile launcher and shield extenders. More than enough to kill a rat. You can do level 1 missions with that in a industrial.
So either you are totally clueless or a troll. probably the second.

Nice set of kills for someone that can't pilot any combat ship: https://zkillboard.com/character/91801779/


did i ever say i was a non combat character?

im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?

your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic


So true, you just gave me my first signatureBlink

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2016-05-20 20:44:37 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


did i ever say i was a non combat character?

im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?

your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic


Your RPing is a personal choice. CCP don't have to take your personal choice into account when designing feature, especially the ones not even targeted at a player like you who admittedly logs in every day already. According to what your point of view looks to be, I should be mad because my own personal play style in every game to not bother with dailies unless the actual activity provide me a form of entertainment stop me from participating into it. Stop being childish and accept the consequence of your own choices.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#112 - 2016-05-20 21:10:36 UTC
Aurelius Oshidashi wrote:
I guess I should support this feature if it turns out to be good for EvE, but it certainly isn't good for me. I can only log in during the weekend. I'm quite new to the game still so I'm careful to judge, but my gut feeling tells me this feature is far from the essence, the character of what EvE is. Feels like a mini game I would play on my phone. But ok, let's see what happensSad
You'll still be able to do it twice a week though so you can still get gains out of it. Of course people who play more will get more, just like every other mechanic.

Vincent Athena wrote:
Yes, because the extra SP being dumped into the game will lower the prices of SP in the skill injector market. Everyone using that market to get extra ISK will be effected.
But this can already happen. I've already gone from 16 characters churning SP to 48 characters and I plan to continue growing that number. Everyone choosing to farm SP lowers the SP price.

Isaac Armer wrote:
So if you have one account that's a pure industrial character or a pure scout in deep null or WHs, you should have to have your playstyle dictated for SP gain now?
It's not dictating anything, it's offering. Just like you can't complete mission for fed navy SP in wormholes, you have the choice to do the task for the reward, or not. It would only be disctating your playstyle if you were actually forced to use it, foe example if they said "if you don't kill an NPC every 22 hours you stop generating SP". That would be forcing a playstyle. You're boohooing over an optional task.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Isaac Armer
The Soup Kitchen
#113 - 2016-05-20 21:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Isaac Armer
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Those are choice that you make. Just like most things in EVE, CCP is offering you choices. If you do X, you will get Y. If you kill a rat, you get 10k SP. If you kill a rat with bounty, you get that bounty. If you use the right implants, you get more SP/hours. If you complete this missing, you get this reward. If you lose your ship under insurance contract, you get this amount of ISK. None of those are forced on you. You will be forced to do something when CCP will tell you "Do task X or your account gets cancelled". It's effectively present in EVE right now in the form of keep a valid subscription or use a PLEX or else your account goes inactive. That is effectively the only thing CCP force you to do and that will still be the case once you get the opportunity to kill a rat for 10k SP. The fact that it's a stupid daily does not change the fact that you have the absolute right to just not do it and CCP won't do a thing to you. Your character will still earn X SP/hours based on it's attributes and current progressing skill. You will still be able tolog into the game and will still be able to do everything your character is skilled for.

Be happy tho, removal of recently added feature is actually something which has a precedent in EVE so MAYBE bitching about it can lead to it's removal.


Choices (other than T3s) ATM don't affect SP gains. As a whole they never have. Skill point gain should be flat over time. No learning implants, no buying skillpoints, no EZ mode, force people to grind certain parts of the game for arbitrary reasons.

It's been widely shown that SP loss is something players flat out don't like. From an opportunity cost perspective, not running all +5s and killing one rat per day IS skillpoint loss. Logic follows that learning implants as well as dailies aren't the best idea for the game, given they promote thinking about skillpoints as a commodity, instead of what they are, a way to keep people honest with the history of a particular character as well as to keep people from powerleveling to the "top".

Let's pretend being able to buy skillpoints is a good thing for a minute. Adding it only for one part of the game (combat against NPCs while flat-out ignoring all other playstyles) is lazy design sh*t-poor execution of an idea to put it nicely. This isn't about wanting or not wanting more skillpoints. Hell, if I wanted more I'd sell a plex and buy injectors right now. You can earn cash IRL far faster than you can earn ISK. This is about game design not being thought out and simply ignoring the fact that EVE is a sandbox. This puts a precedence in place that it's OK in EVE to have "required" activities if you want to keep up with everyone else, which is flat-out the opposite of a sandbox.

Frosty, if you want this to move away from being a sandbox that's great. More power to you. Personally? I don't want EVE any more themepark than it already is. Feel free to disagree, I'm sure you will.

Lucas Kell wrote:
It's not dictating anything, it's offering. Just like you can't complete mission for fed navy SP in wormholes, you have the choice to do the task for the reward, or not. It would only be disctating your playstyle if you were actually forced to use it, foe example if they said "if you don't kill an NPC every 22 hours you stop generating SP". That would be forcing a playstyle. You're boohooing over an optional task.


Re-read what I wrote before responding. Do you just change your opinion on the fly to do your best to troll here? Come on champ. 1/10, troll harder.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#114 - 2016-05-20 21:24:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


did i ever say i was a non combat character?

im a 100% combat character and login everyday and actively roaming space huning, i also rp and refuse to shoot rats in my area because they are angel rats so i consider them blue to me, does that explain my position to you a bit better?

your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic


Your RPing is a personal choice. CCP don't have to take your personal choice into account when designing feature, especially the ones not even targeted at a player like you who admittedly logs in every day already. According to what your point of view looks to be, I should be mad because my own personal play style in every game to not bother with dailies unless the actual activity provide me a form of entertainment stop me from participating into it. Stop being childish and accept the consequence of your own choices.


clearly they havent taken anyones choices into consideration, thanks again for confirming that im being penalised for playing the game how ccp once promoted and now im mad because they have decided my playstyle and many others is no longer relevant to what they want from the playerbase. so yeah sorry for being mad that the game ive invested a ton of money and time into has become a grinding generic mmo with no meaning what so ever.

yeah i log in everyday and roam everyday but unless i fck immersion and shoot the rat i dont get the same reward as the guy on his lunch break who logs in for 2 minutes to shoot the rat

its not being childish, its having an opinion about a change which i dont agree with, just because you agree with it doesnt make my opinion any more childish than yours.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#115 - 2016-05-20 21:38:39 UTC
Anything (anything) that helps and encourages the retention of not only new players but players in general should be commended.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Wanda Fayne
#116 - 2016-05-20 22:33:00 UTC
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#117 - 2016-05-20 23:19:23 UTC
Wanda Fayne wrote:
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.
Can I have your stuff?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#118 - 2016-05-20 23:28:17 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.
Can I have your stuff?


you might get some stuff from those who decide to quit in your alliance, especially when you cant form a fleet because most of your alliance is doing dailies all over the place to get the unique rewards and level up to max raven pilot with golden mount. Roll

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
David Therman
#119 - 2016-05-20 23:29:21 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Can I have your stuff?


Ahem...

Wanda Fayne wrote:
If I get even one notification that I "haven't done my dailies"... game over for me. I won't bemoan this (any more than I voiced disagreement with skill injectors), but if someone in game design feels it necessary to "guilt" me into doing it that will be the last straw.


If the straw that breaks the camels back is indeed placed upon you, can I have your stuff please? Smile

(I did say the magic word)
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#120 - 2016-05-20 23:41:35 UTC
Fast growth thread over something that will likely be as accepted as Skill Extractors/Injectors.

Don't get hung up on the 'dailies' thing. Even if they buff out 100 of these critters, the only people that are going to do them are those that want the SP or whatever else they toss in. It benefits those players. So really, the dislikes of this seem to come from 3 fields:

• Tradition-
EVE isn't like other MMO's so it shouldn't use their trappings. EVE has never done anything like this so it's very un-EVE. Etc.

• It's not fair-
I don't feel like doing the daily, so nobody else should get to do it either (call it lazy/envy). Other players have more accounts than I do so I can only get it on 1,2,3 accounts, thus I am being short changed by the mechanics (call it envy/mini-maxxing). This is pathetic, it's not enough to make me do it daily and not worth my time, so nobody should be able to do it (call it greedy/lazy).

• CCP is a bunch of dishonest losers that don't keep their word.
Skill injectors/extractors were a bad idea but at least they said, nothing else! Now they broke their word and it's a total free-for-all on skill points. This will kill EVE for me! (This and similar positions actually are a close sibling to Tradition)

I've yet to see a valid argument as to why this new thing will 'break' EVE that isn't coming from one of those 3 mindsets, and I've read a LOT of arguments against it.

Look, you can fight this until you are Icelandic Ice Blue in the face. You can quit the game. Whatever your choice is, constantly posting garbage about it won't change it. So I suggest trying something different:

Ignore it or try it. You might hate/like it either way, or maybe come off ambivalent.

It's not worth the stress to worry about. It probably won't kill or even majorly effect the game. You might see a small price drop on Extractors/Injectors in a few months.

Just Keep Moving Forward... it'll work out.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP