EVE General Discussion

Well you're not, are you. A fitted, empty occator with no tank wouldn't be profitable either, neither would any shuttle. What you're doing is completely ignoring the fact that most ships are built to be flexible so they can fulfil many roles meaning the empty ship itself is in a worse position but it has much broader fitting options which make it excel in whatever area you want and you're comparing it to an exhumer designed specifically to tank. Effectively you're complaining that other ships have more fitting options than Exhumers.

What you're fundamentally missing is that rather than having one single versatile exhumer, they have 3 rigid exhumers, one for yield, one for capacity and one for tank. You are suggesting that an untanked skiff should be the equivalent of an untanked Zealot, but it's not, as they've already opted to tank by choosing the skiff in the first place.

But then all ships should be the same, and traits would no longer exist and everyone would come down to fittings. The zealot wouldn't get a laser bonus and the sacrilege wouldn't get a missile one. Either way, you'd still end up with players flying the same yield and tank as a skiff because the players smart enough to choose a skiff over a hulk now would still sacrifice the additional yield for additional tank. If anything all it would do is allow some of us to squeeze out a bit more yield and still have a tank that makes them unprofitable.

No, what these ships represent is a fixed directions for exhumers. One for yield, one for capacity, one for tank, and no way to balance it out with fittings. Honestly if you ant to push for a single superexhumer that can use fittings to reach each of thsoe current maximums independently, I'm behind you, since that will just mean I can get more yield while remaining unprofitable to gank, and the people getting killed will still be the dumb guys

What would be the opposing choice though. So in yoru ideal world if a skiff chose not to fit tank, could they fit for yield and achieve hulk yield instead? or fit for ore hold and reach mackinaw capacity? Could they fit between the extremes and have both an improved yield an a formidable tank?

Because quite honestly it sounds like you just want a weak skiff and a separate "skiff tank module" that they have to choose to bolt on with no other viable choice. But if someone is making the decision to use a skiff now, they'll probably continue to make the decision to tank even if they made it that way, since they've already demonstrated that they choose tank over max yield by picking the Skiff.

Lucas-

Effectively, all ships are the same. You can make choices between certain efficient fits vs. other efficient fits that do different jobs, but despite all the options, you learn quickly that efficient fits win at a task, everything else just doesn't work well.

The issue is to modularity of the ships. If the ships weren't balanced against each other, you'd have most people belonging to the race that had the most efficient ships for the job, or a particular job would be by the race that did it effectively.

You could make an argument that this does apply to mining ships since ORE is about the only game in town there, but when it comes to warships, they are all shadows of each other.

Having had to personally work on balancing all the races of the Star Trek universe ships against each other, for a couple of years, this is probably the hardest task to do and creates the most conflict on teams. It almost inevitably ends up being modular and slightly mixed across racial lines to keep the sheer number of balance points down. Thus, the ships end up being basically the same cookie cutter frame that you frost and decorate differently. There are just right combinations and wrong combinations of that decoration. You wouldn't put Chocolate Syrup on Lobster Pasta, it's just not going to go down well...

Yeah totally, that's what I'm saying, just the way to choose between tank, yield or capacity on exhumers involves swapping the actual hull while with other ships it just means changing modules. Baltecs issue seems to be that when a player chooses tank (which they do by flying the skiff) they because unprofitable to gank, and is comparing it to picking a zealot and fitting no tank. But like I say the comparison is bad because by choosing the skiff the player already has chosen tank.

It sounds like what he wants is one single exhumer that has lower abse stats than all of the others but the ability to fit up to the same standards of the existing exhumers, but as I said in my previous post, the players smart enough to choose a skiff now will still be smart enough to fit a tank and the status quo would remain, we'd just have slightly less ships and we'd not need to swap hulls to change priorities.

1. Why do you feel entitled to consistent profit in high-sec ganking when high-sec mining is not very profitable?

2. Why do you feel entitled to profitable high-sec ganking against players specifically fit and prepared against it and accepting the penalty in the form of reduced capacity and yield?

3. The loss of jetcan mining is due to player behavior, not game mechanics. Some people still do it, because mining ships still fill up very quickly. Many don't because they accept the additional travel time as the cost of doing business rather than putting up with can-flipping shenanigans.

Now you're really just complaining about a lack of stupid or careless people, which is quite funny. Welcome to EVE.

Im fine with them choosing to fit a tank, its their choice. Equally I would be fine with someone choosing to fit no tank, slapping on some cargo expanders or going with max yield and even someone getting creative and fitting an ECM fit on them. The whole point would be its up to them how they use the ship.



You dont need to merge them into one super exhumer, they would work perfectly well being specialized for a certain task just like how every other class of ships has specializations. Remove the HP buff they got, add enough powergrid, cpu and slots to be able to fit the equipment the require and you will have fixed barges, brought back mining piracy and probably jetcan mining too. The barges would not be easy pickings and people would get the content back. Everyone wins.



Am I getting punished for having to fit a tank on my Megathron rather than fill all the lows with magstabs and tracking? Everyone has to make the choice between more firepower, more speed, more tank, more utility and so on in every other ship. Why should miners not also have to think about these things?

Context is important here.

That's exactly what is happening though. People choose tank by picking the skiff hull over the hulk hull, and you're going nuts about how wrong it is that they should be able to make that decision.

But all you'd end up with is the exact same ships fit to be at the same standard they are now. If someone is choosing a skiff they are already demonstrating their choice of tank over yield. You seem to think that if the skiff suddenly had less native tank but the modules to make up for it people would go "YAY YIELD!" and start stamping more yield modules on it. The only way it would work the way you are suggesting is if it were impossible for miners to reach the stats they currently have even with fittings, so effectively you just want to nerf exhumers because people are making smart choices.

No, because the megathron is designed specifically to do that. If a skiff could still have 3 mining laser upgrades then have enough lowslots and fitting to achieve the same level of armor tank as they can current tank with 3 mining laser upgrades then that would be fine, but completely pointless. When I say they would be punished it's because you want them to have to remove their current yield boosting lowslots to achieve the current level of tank they can achieve with them plugged in. Again, you just want to nerf exhumers.

Miners do have to think about these things, they just have tho think about it once before they even buy their hull, and if they change their mind they buy a whole new ship, then they have to think about it again when fitting their modules.

No, Im pointing out that having a subcap ship that is unprofitable to gank even when no tank is fitted, its using cargo expanders and is sporting a full t2 loadout is a broken thing. Piking a skiff because it can fit a big tank is fine, but that tank should come from the fittings they choose, not from CCP.



Correct, you lose nothing but we bring back a lot of lost content.



Every ship in eve is designed to do that, you make tradeoffs. Why should barges be any different to anything else out there?

Every single time there is a thread even remotely to do with ganking or piracy in highsec you are in it calling people trolls, and saying things such as "hur dur tearz". Your entire reputation around here and on reddit is one of an angry bear with an axe to grind for whatever reason you have. Not a single time have you ever been against a change that increased the safety in highsec.

I have it all there before you. Literally nothing would change for any miner who currently mines with a tank in mind yet you won't have it and accuse me of trolling.