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[New structures] Observatory Arrays and Gates

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Fascist Jockitch
ELUSH Rehab
#601 - 2016-02-14 14:10:22 UTC
Fanfest is coming up soon. We need to make sure this get some support. There are people with 40+ alts AFK camping all over nullsec these days. IMHO this is similar to botting. People are having a big impact on the game, not even being required to be at their PC. We definitely need a way to de-cloak and hunt these people.
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
#602 - 2016-02-14 19:11:46 UTC
yes AFK cloaky camping is same thing like using bots. there is really needs something against that

sry for my English :-(
WH-Damsel
Monster Industrie Conglomerate
#603 - 2016-02-15 07:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: WH-Damsel
I put my thread in other part of this forum i thing their it make more sence please delete I can't
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#604 - 2016-02-16 21:59:16 UTC
I would like these observation arrays to also effect information being exported to crest as data miners should not be able to circumvent this game play.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Mark Letuse
Darkside Inc.
#605 - 2016-02-18 15:10:48 UTC
Fascist Jockitch wrote:
Fanfest is coming up soon. We need to make sure this get some support. There are people with 40+ alts AFK camping all over nullsec these days. IMHO this is similar to botting. People are having a big impact on the game, not even being required to be at their PC. We definitely need a way to de-cloak and hunt these people.



I agree with this, there are to much AFK campers this days. There is a need to counter such gameplay.
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#606 - 2016-02-22 14:32:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
I'm going to be somewhat harsh here and post something i put on the AFK CLOAKING forums not too long ago....

Read it Because essentially all i'm seeing on this forum is currently 'Wah wah wah, we are not safe enough already out here, and we need even more security in an environment that is ridiculously safe already'

This observatory will not provide healthy gameplay, it wont 'counter' afk cloaking, and let me explain as simply as possible as to why...
If we stop dropping you, you can make money EvilUNCHALLENGEDEvil which not only threatens the entire concept of "risk vs reward" it also upsets all of the markets and even the nature of strategic combat itself.

Cloaking, and afk cloaking is a nessecary evil to balance....Accept it.

#5668 - 2016-02-04 16:28:42 UTC | | Edited by: Zockhandra
5
"Just gonna put this out there, because I've seen a few people claim that (mainly on the topic of blops drops) that cloaking is too 'safe'. Let me explain some very simple things to you.

Risk No.1 - I exist

First off lets start with blops. You might not think it, but its dangerous actually buying them and equipping them in highsec, they are known to be well equipped with expensive modules, and groups have been known to actively suicide gank them for it (they average 60k Ehp). Thats like your brand new ratting rattlesnake exploding as soon as you undock it from your 'home' system after buying it.


Risk No.2 - Not another jump

To actually get to your systems where you rat, (multiple jumps out towards the edge of the galaxy, often spanning more than 24 jumps) we have to send an alt through a potentially huge amount of systems, risking gate camps, bubbles, smartbmombs, or even worse Being scanned down the moment you cyno your blops through and caught before you even make it to your destination, forcing you to go and buy another 300mil recon, 60mil bomber or 800m T3.

Risk No.3 - Out of ******* Fuel

Thats right. We have limited fuel, and it can be at times very difficult to calculate exactly how much we need. This has NOT been made any easier by recent changes to the next point.

Risk No.4 - My hole

We can use wormholes to access new regions of space...oh wait no not really anymore. Since we had nullsec connections heavily nerfed (1/14 holes has a null connection in my experience), which is easily more than 2 hours of scanning (which leads to my final point), whilst taking the enourmous risk of being destroyed on entrance to a hole.....Thats not fun by the way.

Risk No.5 - Oh no you didnt

you can counter drop? Bait? Maybe even fight back? Dropping someone is NOT a guarenteed kill theres any number of things that can go wrong. I've had a Wyvern and a Chimera dropped on me before (thanks CFC), A tengu fleet bridged on to me and bombers decloak and try to drop other blops from third parties(RED alliance / Bombers Bar). The only thing that kept me safe was my experience and knowing where to align out to.

In one of my latest endeavours, i even had a hero naga provide a VERY big surprise and force me to use all of my cap charges in order to escape, and avoid his incoming friends. ( that's the end of that hunt just because one guy forced me to use up almost all my charges )


So to summarise, a whole load of you are moaning about how 'safe' it is to afk cloak? Its a welcome reprieve to the amount of effort that goes into planning, isk investment, risk taking and waiting for you to make a mistake before slaughtering your ridiculously expensive rattlesnakes, ishtars and dominix's. "Don't fly why you can't afford to lose'

If your still convinced that I'm wrong, re-read the above statement and ask yourself:

How many risks do you take going out and ratting, and how many would there be if we could not hunt properly?
The answer, without any real argument to counter (in case your wondering) Is ZERO.

Heres a quick list of things i need to kill you (+time scale):

1 drop boat (capable of covert cyno) - 200m-1.2b
1 blackops battleship - Easily 1.4bil
4 hours for moving and waiting on timers
2b spare incase my alt gets popped en-route (along with an additional 4 hours)
Backup fittings to try and escape (if nessecary)
Range of ammo (to match ship types)
Drones
A wormhole (or several maybe)
and my personal favourite:

Five days of free time, spent trying to catch some whining ratter who only has to be aligned and press warp to negate ALL of that preparation......Oh and then send abuse to me in local chat about:
-My heritage
-Mental status
-Sexual orientation
-Sexual status
-My relationship with my mother
-My inability to take you seriously

I hope clarify's just how dumb it sounds to us (blops pilots), when you call us 'too safe'.

From our eyes, YOU'RE the ones that are too safe. Thats why we destroy your ships :) "

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#607 - 2016-02-25 21:30:37 UTC
Couple of ideas:

Observatories:
Allow ships without probe launchers to use the observatory's probes while in-system.
Disable Local's member list, if that's not default.
Show "phantom ships" as being docked on this or maybe other nearby Citadels. Ex: you can dock an illusionary titan or 10 at nearby stations.
Maybe some way to auto-probe things?

Gates:
Warping to any other Gate station in CONTINUOUS sov. Supercaps included.
Creating jump gates to Cynos, and with a certain module, covert Cynos that are very long.
The ability to DISABLE non-allied or all cynos (not covert!) in system.
Possibly able to set up semi-permanent warp scram probes in areas.


Also, I would like it if there was a way to put guards or turrets on gates in nullsec at least.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#608 - 2016-03-02 05:29:31 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Couple of ideas:

Observatories:
Allow ships without probe launchers to use the observatory's probes while in-system.
Disable Local's member list, if that's not default.
Show "phantom ships" as being docked on this or maybe other nearby Citadels. Ex: you can dock an illusionary titan or 10 at nearby stations.
Maybe some way to auto-probe things?

Gates:
Warping to any other Gate station in CONTINUOUS sov. Supercaps included.
Creating jump gates to Cynos, and with a certain module, covert Cynos that are very long.
The ability to DISABLE non-allied or all cynos (not covert!) in system.
Possibly able to set up semi-permanent warp scram probes in areas.


Also, I would like it if there was a way to put guards or turrets on gates in nullsec at least.


More stuff:

Jump Gates:
When you set up jump gates in continuous sov they make a jump network. Jump networks can teleport (jump) people anywhere in range of the gate, which depends on the networks size. So if an alliance/corp/whatever was trying to defend an isolated pocket of Sov and had a large enough jump network, they jump reinforcements in, but those reinforcements would not be able to get back.

Using a jump gate in a network will allow jumping to any other gate in the network, with costs dependent on distance ofc.


Observatories:
Be able to send (combat) probes anywhere in system.
If there is a jump gate/network in system, then they get the ability to send probes in the same areas that the gate could send ships. So you can see what's on the other side of that gate!
Mark Letuse
Darkside Inc.
#609 - 2016-03-21 15:17:21 UTC
Am not against cloaking or covert op but when you have a guy camping you for three (3) months and more 24/7 with 40+ of his alts in 40+ systems around you, this is not content generation, this is more like harassment.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#610 - 2016-03-24 15:10:23 UTC
@Zockhandra, I am a blops pilot, a recon pilot, a T3 pilot, and a bomber pilot. I have no problems with the residents having a way to eventually scan down afk cloakers, so long as it a) allows an active cloaked pilot an opportunity for counterplay, and b) is not an "I win" button that gives instant perfect intel.

I had a big list of responses to each of your pasted "reasons". Then I realized your entire set of "reasons" was nothing more than a big bucket of tears about how hard it is to blops, and thus everyone else should be gimped to make it easier for you.

Every one of your "reasons" has a solution. I will leave it up to you to figure out what they are.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Alundil
Rolled Out
#611 - 2016-04-16 17:50:38 UTC
exiik Shardani wrote:
yes AFK cloaky camping is same thing like using bots. there is really needs something against that

The mental leap of illogic it takes to mash the keys in such a way as to generate that thought is astounding. You sir are in the wrong thread. You should be in this one instead.

I'm right behind you
Lugh Crow-Slave
#612 - 2016-04-16 20:54:32 UTC
Mark Letuse wrote:
Am not against cloaking or covert op but when you have a guy camping you for three (3) months and more 24/7 with 40+ of his alts in 40+ systems around you, this is not content generation, this is more like harassment.




If he is actively at the keyboard there is no issue as he is playing the game and if he is afk there is no issue as he can't do anything to you.

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Mark Letuse
Darkside Inc.
#613 - 2016-04-21 11:41:38 UTC
I would like to point out the word "actively".

What is the point then to play eve if you not playing game actively, only to be afk?
Shank Ronuken
TURN LEFT
#614 - 2016-04-25 02:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Shank Ronuken
This is absolutely ******** and the fact that CCP is even entertaining some of these ideas is abhorrent. Having structure modules that impair ships mobility/navigation will only kill roaming which is already on its last legs and will completely **** up alot of mechanics and playstyles. Secondly a cloak pinpointing bullshit module only makes is ultra safe for krabs in addition making roamer's lives even more hell because now when you're camped in for 3 hours or longer by the locals you can't even ******* refit to a cloak to avoid combats.

As far as schewing statistics on the starmap that is complete stupid, its the only way to find a destination to roam do that isn't complete devoid of life and now you're telling me that system is worthless?? It's bad enough the locals can see you coming severla jumps out with intel networks, and in some cases intel bots and anyone who is at keys and paying attention has almost zero chance of being caught. on top of that many, many locals would rather dock up and go afk than run the roaming gangs off. And now all of the intel that multiple playstyles use simply to find a destination in the HOPES that they can get a fight/gank/whatever they are looking for is completely worthless??? So now on top of the time I've wasted traveling, trying to provoke fights vs people who refuse to undock/leavepos you're now going to waste even more of my time by giving me misleading map statistics that can and will lead me into completely lifeless areas? Get ******.

If you want to make some sort of intel modules, make nullsec delayed local and have a structure model that brings back some of the instant-local functionality; but with the drawback of being potentially disabled by entosis on the service.
Mark Letuse
Darkside Inc.
#615 - 2016-04-29 09:49:04 UTC
Am gonna quote a guy from the AFK Cloaking post :)


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=397030&p=295



"""""


If you're scouting / preforming recon/ sneaking up on someone you're not AFK, and i get that sometimes you will have to wait around for a target.... BUT if you're sat in a system, causing people to remain overstressed and on edge whilst you're cloaked and then go AFK....well you're causing significant disruption to others whilst not at risk, and that is the point i'm making. You can cause massive disruption but without any need to do anything, and it isn't "COUNTER-ABLE"

Having fleet protection and rapid response on comms is not a counter to an AFK cloaker. It's a reaction to a valid threat. The fact the person poses a threat by being there is good, they help you keep your skills high, but if they're AFK they're not playing!!

"""""
Tavion Aksmis
Perkone
Caldari State
#616 - 2016-06-08 13:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tavion Aksmis
I have some ideas regarding player built Stargates Roll Those structures you are planning for down the line:



  • How far gates connect two systems and maintenence cost should be defined by ly distance between systems they are connecting.

  • These gates should be destructable.

  • Gates are anchorable from one side, take several days to come online and leave some notable mark on the other side for the period. The finalization process does however require someone freindly on the other side (think Starcraft 2 nydus worm).

  • Existing gates in the game should become destructable. Maybe leave some in high-sec and low-sec. Systems with all gates destroyed to them can only be accessed through wormholes.

  • Everyone can use them (standings towards owner does not matter), however they can be fitted with automated guns that fire depending on standing, like todays low-sec gate guns. This could be dependent on the size of the stargate, where the smallest can not have guns, while the larger ones do.

  • Size of gates should not determine how many ships can pass, but only range and other aspects. Let wormholers keep their mass mechanics, null is about large fleets. This is to emphesize the fact that a stargate is supposed to open "doors" for yourselves as well as potential hostiles - risk/reward.

  • Player owned/buildt gates can be "hacked" as exploration cans. The hacking attempt will notify the owner and will also take time depending on some chosen mechanic (combination of ADMs, Stargate size and Stargate Fitting?). Hacking gives you two benefits.

  • First banefit is that you can shut down the gate guns until the owner comes and puts them online again. Hence guns on gates only makes sence in activly controlled areas.

  • Second banefit is that you can D-scan through a hacked gate or some similar mechanic where you can gather information about whats on the other side of the gate without jumping through.

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#617 - 2016-06-27 15:02:05 UTC
Preamble: (Those of a fragile nature in terms of combative forum posting by those they define as carebears should read from the fourth paragraph.)

Dear CCP, hopefully you will read this before the frenzied horde of HTFU shiteposters descend on it like a cloud of ugly two faced locusts.

First of all I have heard about your intentions for Observatory Structures, I placed one such idea in the AFK cloaky thread which is trolled by the worst type of HTFU trolls, this is to deal with AFK and emphasis on AFK cloaky campers, see here Pleae excuse my flippant tone, one that I often use when dealing with trolls on the Eve forums...

We are all aware, well those with a brain that is, of the lack of content in hisec, sadly we have extremely rich war dec entities who call themselves mercs hunting around the major pipes and around the major hubs the normally fail 0.0 alliance people that go to hisec for supply reasons or whatever. They also war dec any hisec entities that look like they have more than a couple of members, looking desperately not for good fights but something to add to their already green killboard and to test their bling ships out on. In return those hisec entities which are often 0.0 alt indy corps avoid any dec like the plague, changing corp etc.

Since you changed the watch list to be a buddy list, something I agree with, there is a chance for real hisec entities to develop, however as soon as they are noted they will get a blanket war dec and their only fun will be being massacred when trying to fight a War dec entities main fleet or watching the GTFO shisp run away. They will be war dec'd by multiple entities if they show any fight because too many people are desperate to find something to shoot. Those hisec people will be telling their players to not log in for a week, or play on an alt, but if they have a bit more to them they will operate at a reduced level taking advantage of the fact that the war deccers do not know they are on line. This happy stae of affairs is good news for hisec, but one of the issues is that being war decced means that you have no real easy way to fight back and even more deadly to content, no reason.

Imagine that you in your huge wisdom create a Observatory Structure that tells the mercs (ahem) in the corp that owns it that Joe Bloggs is alive and kicking in game and was spotted in that Constellation. If Joe Bloggs moves into another Constellation then they will get a report that he has left that constellation but has arrived in the other.

Joe Blogs may also have picked up that there is such a structure keeping tabs on him, and he wants to play at a low level, so he and his corp mates jump into some ships and start to blap that structure, being fragile things it can be taken down with no reinfroced timers, but a strangled cry for help will be sent should it be attacked rather like that given by the POS. Here we have a perfect situation, a corp able to cause pain back to its attackers and a fleet in space that can have fun. This will also create a cat and mouse game around placing these things which will need to be probed down etc.

Fun can be had by all and hopefully with the ability to kill these things war dec entities will be a little bit more picky.

Over to you CCP and I hope you do it, because this will help hunter killers like the Devils Warriosr Alliance and perhaps will create better hisec entities then we have now....

Detail:
Observatory Structure for watch list and presence within the constellation.
Can be taken down with one attack if at war only
Value around 100m as they are expected to be destroyed
Do not show on overview unless you are on grid with them
Need to be probed down

Report:
System the war target is in or that they are within the Constellation or just that they have been picked up in the Constellation, discuss please.
Report that they have left the Constellation
Logout report if they logout within that Constellation, should we make that system level and even detail which station.
Will be sent to the holding corp only, not to the alliance as will notifications of being attacked.

Pros:
Revitalise mercs that do hunter killing in hisec
Create a meaningful target for those that want to fight back that has real benefits to the war dec entity
The defender can be a real pain to the war dec operations and therefore changing the dynamic of blanket war decs

Cons:
Weaken the possibility of hisec entities operating under the radar when war decc'ed

Threads in which this has been discussed:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6542729#post6542729
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=483651&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=479121&find=unread
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=485866&find=unread

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Makareena
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#618 - 2016-06-27 19:10:33 UTC
Whats the point of a cloak when you can be seen ? O.o
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#619 - 2016-06-27 20:11:13 UTC
tis is awesome that is all.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Gankhis Khan
Derpyversity
#620 - 2016-07-14 05:01:00 UTC
We haven't heard anything about Observatory Arrays in quite some time now. We were promised these structures with citadels but they were never introduced. The AFK cloaky camping situation needs to be addressed. Being cloaked and hunting targets in a system is one thing, being cloaked and AFK is something else entirely.

Being able to disrupt the operations of an entire null system when you aren't even in front of your computer shouldn't be possible. There is no counter for this whatsoever! This should have been taken care of a long time ago. The fact that people can create this much stress without actively playing, and without any risk to themselves is completely absurd and needs to be dealt with asap!