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Recurring Opportunities coming soon

First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1601 - 2016-04-14 15:42:47 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie.
No.
Again: injectors do not create time. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP.

All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from.


The SP generated from game mechanic A don't have to follow the rule of those created by game mechanic B. This flies int he face of "SP will only be created by training" but I think by now you should of gotten the idea that this was no longer true as soon as they decided to reward SP for an activity. The SP rewarded for the opportunity are not a "time creation" because they are not handed over time anyway. They are created by an entire different set of rule.

As for ISK reward instead of SP, the reason for that is that much less people are strongly addicted to the ISK drugs than the SP drugs hard enough to log-in as often. We have to keep in mind they want as much log-ins as possible. Not the system that makes the most sense.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1602 - 2016-04-14 15:45:08 UTC
Cyan Moonwinder wrote:
I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.


You should log-in to a game because the game is interesting to play and not because you get something out of logging in. The real issue CCP face is they are not able to produce a game where we will log-in every day just out of our own will to play the game so they are resorting to artificial method to get us to log-in more often what we usually do.
Christian Kim
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1603 - 2016-04-14 16:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Christian Kim
I think it is good that many see introducing daily opportunities so critical.
In the end those opportunities are chores. Those who don't have time are left feeling missing out on something, those who do them will get tired of them. Maybe not within a week, but sure as heck at some later point.


Vardec Crom wrote:
If you're actually looking for feedback on this I think what newer players need more than skill points is ISK, so to keep with your idea, you could have a "bonus bounty" once per day, like 10 mil, 5 mil, 20 mil, I don't know.

I didn't mind skill injectors because they don't actually increase the net sp in the game, but this is handing out millions of sp a year to everybody, not a big fan.


As a newer player who just returned after leaving the elder grind online I agree with you. Although I want and need SP, the thing that is keeping me from experiencing more of the game (low/nullsec activities) is ISK.

If I had more ISK I could afford to go out and fight, go to lowsec and explore and do more risky stuff. But with implants costing me a large part of my total ISK, I simply cannot afford to die. To get back the ISK lost for level 3 implants I need to play a whole afternoon... or be lucky and get a really good lvl 4 mission.
So if I want decent training times, I am confined to high sec and low ISK.

Changing how jump clones work would do much more to encourage me playing the game than daily opportunities. Like being able to jump twice in 24 hours (which would allow me to jump to a combat clone and if I get pdded back in to my training clone).
(Why is it ppl are so mean and podkill you all the fracking time, anyway?)

I think I'll rather not have the option to shave off a couple of hours worth of training time off of the 19 days it will take me to train Gallente Cruiser 5 if I am left to do the activities I actually want to do and not daily chores and the pressure of having to log in every single day.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#1604 - 2016-04-14 16:16:40 UTC
Cyan Moonwinder wrote:
I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.


we are not complaining about it becoming a modern MMO we are complaining about it losing the sandbox
Tollix Yolo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1605 - 2016-04-14 16:28:30 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Tollix Yolo wrote:
maintain a competitive skill point gain.

And what is that? Either you have good skills for a particular task or you don't. For every possible task there will always be a large number of players who have a lower skill level in it and a large number of players who have an equal or higher one.

If I have 40, 80 or 120m SP on my main, getting this 20% bonus SP for daily logins does not affect my overall competitiveness. I already have a lot of gameplay options available where I can have very good skills. More SP just gives me more options, and the bonus SP gives me these options faster. But I will never 'lose' against another player in any way because he gained SP 20% faster than me.

The only case where this 20% makes a real difference is very new players still on the way to achieving really good skills for even a single ship or task, and they should generally be more active and it is good if they get a tangible reward for being active every day.

I see your point in terms of the greater EVE population.

But it is all relative, I started playing with a bunch a real life friends. Now there is a relative competitive skill point gain between us ( not like you are bad at EVE if you have less). Yes we are generally trained to accomodate a relatively large amount of gameplay options but there is always more to train. I agree with you that it only increases your available gameplay options but this is equally competative between peers. And don't tell me you don't go damn I still have to do that one when your mate tells you he finished a LV5 skill that you still have to do. Now imagine that is just because he killed 1 npc a day. Not the end of the world but less than ideal.
I have seen this with players resubbing that started with you they get a bit of a downers for a bit before getting back into it. As they see the options you have available to play with that they don't and would of if....

If you want it for new players only then make it that way I don't have a problem with that to be honest really. Although the casual gamer there may also feel that they are being left behind by their peers, this will be much more noticable with low SP characters. But then make it more lenient, not a daily task, that still rewards activity.
I found comparing peers to be more of a metric of comparison in terms of SP that I used rather than comparing with older characters when I was younger, much less so now that I have my niche gameplay of choice trained.

But maybe I'm weird and shouldn't compare at all.
Neeraja Kalrapindhi
TYR.
Exodus.
#1606 - 2016-04-14 17:05:40 UTC
After briefly reading through 81 pages of players from all backgrounds and experience levels mostly saying, "No!" ...I also have to add my voice to this, because it feels wrong to not say something even if it falls on deaf ears.

I've played a lot of MMO's in my day and the daily challenges/tasks get repetitive and nothing burns me out faster. Which is what made EVE such a stellar game that keeps me coming back year after year, to pay to play even. I could undock and didn't feel required to do X, Y, or Z for the day...I could undock and do anything I wanted. Not to mention that the 3+ mil theoretical SP per year of doing the daily thing is no insignificant amount of SP, so even at my level I feel I'd be missing out by not doing them, even if I don't want to do it.

I get that CCP is looking for more daily logins, but I think this type of "incentive" to get people to log in is the wrong type of deal and misrepresents what EVE is and how different from every other MMO it is. Let's not dumb down EVE, if I wanted to play WoW or whatever other grindy game there is nowadays, I would go do that. But I play EVE where we're a bit more elevated than the daily grind.

If you want to reward people with small amounts of SP, give it for doing things in game, not just undocking to kill an NPC and dock back up. Give SP for actually completing the goals of the game via the tutorials, the opportunities, etc. That way it would benefit the lower SP people, who are the ones most in need of it , and it gets them out of the rut of highsec to learn just how fantastic of a game it is, how utterly sandbox it can be, and hopefully they'll find their niche in game and stick around. In EVE the stars are the limit.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1607 - 2016-04-14 17:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
Cyan Moonwinder wrote:
I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.

Why should i feel incentivized to log in every day? Or in other words, if i have to log in every day to get the most out of my game, why should I play EVE and not some other game? Or in yet other words, why should I be punished for not being able to log in every day and why should I not just walk away instead of taking the punishment?


I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?

The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Erihn Sabrovich
#1608 - 2016-04-14 17:08:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie.
No.
Again: injectors do not create time. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP.

All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from.


Injector don't create time...

But bonus SP don't create time either... You still have 24h/day, your prod won't go faster, your PI don't get of the supply chain faster, the belts/anomalies/signatures won't respawn faster, ... Combats vs NPC won't go faster (nor slower)...

So it's time to stop throwing a tamtrum... CCP choice is a sensible one and if you don't like it, you may quit EVE, I won't care !!!
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1609 - 2016-04-14 17:23:54 UTC
Quote:
Quote:
and what was the reason you don't log that often?
Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.

If you are not motivated to log on into sandbox game, then maybe sandbox game is not for you. It should give you tools to play not lure you into a content that you don't like anyway. Nothing will change you just need an excuse. What will you do with SP you'll earn, you didn't know before now you will?

Ofc people will do it and PCU will rise but will it still be a sandbox? Hardly. So maybe we stop with whole sandbox nonsense? Players don't like hardcore games nowadays. Everything must be fast, smooth and without effort. If you want to earn money CCP change approach to your product and stop pretending otherwise.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1610 - 2016-04-14 17:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Tippia wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie.
No.
Again: injectors do not create time. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP.

All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from.

HAH oh how wrong you are. As I said earlier in this thread, all the SP farming alts, they create SP, create time, out of thin air since you can sell the injectors for enough to cover a plex to continue farming and get two cyno/trade/etc. alts out of the deal as well. This is in fact no different, except for the use of the plex. More demand for plex is a good thing though.

Lets also not forget the fact that injectors Destroy SP if anyone over 5mill SP uses them. An astronomic amount of SP has been lost to the aether since injectors came out.

End of the day your post was a complete and utter lie and nothing you say will change that. Very sad.

Lets look at the ISK injection issue!

Too much raw isk injection is bad for the eve economy. Like, very bad. Isk faucets is a very real and very big thing that CCP has to manage in EvE and I bet the sums they made pointed to any non insignificant amount of ISK they can give the players for this would quickly do very bad things (TM) to the Eve economy. So a raw ISK injection is something they should not do, at least, not in this way. Even suggesting an ISK injection shows extreme lack of understanding of how eve works. Very dissapointed.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1611 - 2016-04-14 17:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
ISK = SP and SP = ISK. In more ways that one actually since Isk = Plex = Game time = SP. Also since you need an active account to do the dailies past a 14d/21d trail (wonder if trails will be able to do dailies?) that means Isk = Plex = Game time = Dailies = SP.

End of the day this is not anything NEW. That's the hilarity of it all. They are not doing anything new. Oh I'm sure the perception of the ignorant is that it's something new or that ISK/LP/AUR would be better but just like injectors they just need to go through with it and all the hubbub will die down.

Fun fact, you want to know how much ISK they are giving for this daily? Take a guess! Anyone? 50mill? Nope. 30mill? Hah not even close! A skill injector with 500k SP goes for 642mill in Jita at the moment. A little bit of math and you get a grand total of ....

12.84mill!!

That's right ladies and gentlemen, less than 13 mill ISK worth of SP. That's what everyone is up in arms over. How pathetically petty can players be?

Yo CCP Rise, put that in your the Dev Blog you guys are going to write about this so people can see just how sad they are.


inb4 'but it's the principle of the thing'. Spare me. The principle of the thing went out the damn window when injectors got released.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Erihn Sabrovich
#1612 - 2016-04-14 17:31:59 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
and what was the reason you don't log that often?
Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.

If you are not motivated to log on into sandbox game, then maybe sandbox game is not for you. It should give you tools to play not lure you into a content that you don't like anyway. Nothing will change you just need an excuse. What will you do with SP you'll earn, you didn't know before now you will?


This is clearly a way to compete for the "idle computer time" that many people have... these times where anything is good... surfing, posting on forums, watching a video on youtube, ...

This will make EVE an interresting target for that "idle time"...

And, well, like most MMO, EVE is also a "social game"... When you connect, you usually chat a little on corp channel or other... which will give you motivation to come back...
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1613 - 2016-04-14 17:50:21 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
ISK = SP and SP = ISK. In more ways that one actually since Isk = Plex = Game time = SP. Also since you need an active account to do the dailies past a 14d/21d trail (wonder if trails will be able to do dailies?) that means Isk = Plex = Game time = Dailies = SP.

End of the day this is not anything NEW. That's the hilarity of it all. They are not doing anything new. Oh I'm sure the perception of the ignorant is that it's something new or that ISK/LP/AUR would be better but just like injectors they just need to go through with it and all the hubbub will die down.

Fun fact, you want to know how much ISK they are giving for this daily? Take a guess! Anyone? 50mill? Nope. 30mill? Hah not even close! A skill injector with 500k SP goes for 642mill in Jita at the moment. A little bit of math and you get a grand total of ....

12.84mill!!

That's right ladies and gentlemen, less than 13 mill ISK worth of SP. That's what everyone is up in arms over. How pathetically petty can players be?

Yo CCP Rise, put that in your the Dev Blog you guys are going to write about this so people can see just how sad they are.


inb4 'but it's the principle of the thing'. Spare me. The principle of the thing went out the damn window when injectors got released.

Pick supporting numbers, ignore the rest, spice up with insults. Says a lot about your personality.

Mister Ripley wrote:
I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less).

So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year.

Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style?

You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour...

And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again..

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1614 - 2016-04-14 17:54:54 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?

The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts.

It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#1615 - 2016-04-14 17:58:20 UTC
Id prefer if this was for pvp kills or even losses, because for pve you already get full use of implants but players involved in real content (pvp) usually end up foregoing implants.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1616 - 2016-04-14 18:08:47 UTC
Mister Ripley wrote:
Mister Ripley wrote:
I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less).

So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year.

Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style?

You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour...

And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again..


Actually no, if you do the dailies for 50 days you will have gained 500k SP. You then put it in an injector and sell the injector and... you get your 13mill ISK per 10k SP. Injectors might have less value to you because of your SP total but you're just twiating the numbers to fit YOUR narritive.

Also you can only do this ONCE A DAY. I can make 200mill/h (or you your 50ish heh) every hour. So again, twisting numbers to fit your pov. Lets get some objectivity here.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1617 - 2016-04-14 18:15:49 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?

The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts.

It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect.

I understand your point but FT Dio. points out that a paying customer should not be pushed to provide some service (in this case content) to the sales company.
It's like buying something and then being pushed to write positive reviews and recommend the product to friends and family.

In Free to Play games you are the product. In Pay to Play games this should not be the case. The total CCU (concurrent users) metric makes sense in F2P games because every minute someone is playing is a minute to push him to buy game currency (i.e. because something takes insane amount of time to build or to craft, but can be completed with just 100 diamonds).

I don't understand why CCP seems so eager to improve this metric. I never had the feeling to be alone somewhere. Sure some 0.0 areas are basicaly empty, but that's because of game mechanics. People are in other areas where they can use said mechanics in their favour. Like a standing fleet in a system, forming groups to be safe.
Tigh Edatosmi
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1618 - 2016-04-14 18:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tigh Edatosmi
I hope that a Dev makes it this far to read my two cents.

1. I don't like the overall idea. Eve is about gaining skill *without* needing to log on. It jives well with living a healthier life, knowing I don't have to grind and can continue to advance. I know that I will do dailies every day (I hope sleepers count) and that is on me to be able to deal with the emotional aspect of now having to level grind on top of the natural grind.

2. This will change the market for multiple account training. Fact. If i just need a few skills on an alt, I can work that out without buying a whole month of training.

3. "We don't want you to farm your alt, thats why no pvp... yada yada." - why not make it so you can get credit for activity by killing a given toon once? "But this will make fight clubs..." you mean where players have to interact with each other? I thought that was the point. Sucks for the database that has to keep track, but it can't be *that* much data.

4. Seems like a slippery slope. Skill extractors were just launched, and to get the community to go along with the idea, the Devs said that the only way skills came into the game was through time. So, not two months later, that's changed. "Well, we aren't going to become like other MMO's, look, sandbox, citadels!". But the slope is clearly apparent. If the business model this game is predicated on is not financially viable, and the only way to survive is to attract a different type of new player, just be honest with the community. If you know that things have to change, that the old customer won't like the changes, but it will attract new customers or new business activity, don't misrepresent the process to the old customers, promising that things aren't really changing, when it is clear that they are, and continue to do so. Pretending that Eve is the same after a change like this, coupled with skill extractors and injectors, is unfair to your old time customers who purchased a different product with different rules. Just be honest with us about what the direction is and why. (A short TL;DR for this portion : Saying in a dev post "the only way skills come in to the game is through time" one month, and changing that literally two months later, is unfair to your customers).

5. This would be a great idea for new players, and should phase out the longer a toon is around. Best of both worlds, it promotes new players to keep logging on (to develop the habit), but protects invested players who have an advantage precisely because they have been around for so long.

6. I know, I *know* this will change in the future, so that different activities are rewarded differently. The posts that are coming about how "Why does he get the same SP for killing a high sec pirate NPC as I do for killing a sleeper in a C5??!?", there will be these posts, and there will be a repsonse. Let us all be honest.

TL;DR. I don't like the idea. I will keep playing, as long as there is fun to be had.
Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1619 - 2016-04-14 18:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Ripley
Anize Oramara wrote:
Mister Ripley wrote:
Mister Ripley wrote:
I have ~100M SP so I get 150k SP per Injector. To buy the same amount of SP dailies would provide in a year costs me ~16B ISK. That's ~45M ISK per day. I can earn that by playing approx one hour (with logging in, warping around, finding rats, killing rats, selling loot, etc). 10k SP per day can be earned in 5 minutes (maybe even less).

So time wise it's: Playing 365 hours (~15 days) versus playing 30 hours (1 day, 6 hours). Per year.

Do you really think, this is not punishing normal play styles compared to daily grind monkey play style?

You can think what you want about skill injectors, but the diminishing returns are there for a reason. The more SP you have, the less incentive you have to use them. Dailies reverse this. 10k SP per day gives me 150k SP (worth 625M ISK) for 75 minutes playtime. Please show me the activity that gives 500M ISK per hour...

And all this for logging in every day like a zombie and do the same thing, again and again and again and again..


Actually no, if you do the dailies for 50 days you will have gained 500k SP. You then put it in an injector and sell the injector and... you get your 13mill ISK per 10k SP. Injectors might have less value to you because of your SP total but you're just twiating the numbers to fit YOUR narritive.

Also you can only do this ONCE A DAY. I can make 200mill/h (or you your 50ish heh) every hour. So again, twisting numbers to fit your pov. Lets get some objectivity here.

Why should I sell for 13M ISK per 10k SP if the benefit I get for not selling is 45M ISK per 10k SP. ISK = SP. Didn't you say that?
I just showed the value of 10k SP to someone with over 80M SP. Nothing more.. And since ISK = SP, both can be treated as equally valuable.

I find it also pretty funny to see you bragging about your 200M per hour. Yeah sure, if you start counting when warping in a site, don't consider other players, forming fleets, etc. If I play a week to accumulate some goods worth 100M ISK and the sell them all with five minutes, that must be 1.2B ISK per hour... right?

Also you get the SP by playing the way you like, trading, mining, afk cloaking and so on. Getting decent ships and skills to do what you do, does not just happen while you play. And you don't just become an incursion/escalation/sleeper uber grinder just by doing what you like. You have to put effort into ISK grinding and I also become pretty good at it, but that's not everyones play style.

45M per hour may not be much, but that's what I make without putting much afford into it. Still a hundred times more effort compared to undock, kill NPC, dock.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1620 - 2016-04-14 18:33:11 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Ravcharas wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I just don't understand why it matters that log in every day. I pay a subscription fee. Why does it matter whether I use the service as long as I continue to subscribe. I could understand encouraging daily logins in a F2P or one time fee game, but CCP gets paid no matter what I do in Eve, so long as I am willing to subscribe. They should be doing things to keep me wanting to subscribe. Right?

The sad part is that this is going to make me subscribe less - not quit, just spend less on the service. Six accounts worth of dailies is going to cut into my "fun time" a bit too much. And I don't like the way Eve is heading, so, just as I did last year, when I went from seven down to six accounts, this year I'll be going from six down to five accounts.

It matters because the game is more interesting and attractive it it feels populated. Eve is an interconnected game with a persistent world, so the consequences of my actions actually has an effect even after I'm logged off. However for every minute you are logged on, the possibility of interaction with other players is higher. Other people being the main draw of a massive multiplayer experience. But some actions have a much greater effect than others. And one hour of active play can be more important than other hours, even if that hour is spent doing the same kind of activity. That's the butterfly effect.


As I have already explained elsewhere in this thread, logging in for 10 minutes a day to do a PVE task is not conducive to generating the butterfly effect. CCP Rise suggests I should be able to complete this on my lunch break. If I only log in on my lunch break (which I cannot do anyway because of my job), I cannot afford to get into an hours long hunt or B-R style battle. So, I have every incentive to do my task, avoid other players, and log off again. Nor does the task require me to risk an attractive target. I can kill a belt rat in a matter of seconds in a Vexor or T3D and be basically immune to interacting with other players.

This mechanic is only conducive to boosting the log in numbers for the day. But why does that statistic matter? The game has a subscription model. The only reason this statistic would matter is if the subscription numbers look terrible and some manager wants to post "Subscriptions are down X%, but daily activity is up over 9000%!" In short, it is a meaningless statistic only useful for dishonest purposes. At least such will be my assumption until I hear otherwise from CCP.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.