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First post
Author
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1581 - 2016-04-14 12:18:29 UTC
Chjna wrote:
This thread is filled with comments that points out that other stuff is like:
Quote:
skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be?

It's like saying that Clamydia can't be bad, as you already have Syphilis.

The reason that you did not complain that much about getting Syphilis, is that the guy you got it from was so sexy, that you forgot to think about how this would affect you in the long run.

This time around, he is not that good lookin, you are all out of birth control pills, and you know he is infected.
Most of all, you really do not want to raise a demanding kid by yourself, even if you would receive child maintenance.




Us capsuleers have accepted a lot of changes for the worse and all the time does ccp get it the way they want in the end. Last time when we shoot the monument, what did it acchive? appart from a new model for the monument? -Looking at this new feature, Nothing.


You can avoid the second infection just like you can avoid the burn-out from the opportunity system...
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1582 - 2016-04-14 12:35:39 UTC
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1583 - 2016-04-14 12:39:36 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

and what was the reason you don't log that often?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1584 - 2016-04-14 12:47:41 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan.


You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!!

You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not.

Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds.

The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous)

The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would.

Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it".

This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be.

Holy molly I don't think Ive ever agreed with a post as much as this one and its a goon.

It's like I'm taking crazy pills.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1585 - 2016-04-14 12:58:41 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Right. At the end of the day this is a game. Not a job where people need an incentive to punch in every day. Treating it as the latter is bad. If fun for their customers isn't the goal, they should rethink their plan.


You are surely the type of player who think EA is doing it all wrong while they are swimming in pools of money. If the real goal was fun, nobody would be making a dime in the gaming industry as they would burn all the money into MOAR FUN!!!!

You keep the fun at an ok level and coast on it. This new feature does not add fun. Nothing about it is fun at all. What it adds is log-ins. Log-ins seems irrelevant but they are not. Rise said it in this very thread. Log-ins for non-direct gameplay reason generate un-intended gameplay event. You used to log for your skill queu every few days because you had less than 24 hours queued at that point and while there, you saw someone online to do something with or just did something because well, you are already in game so why not.

Technically, they could just revert the skillqueue change and get back those log-ins but the feature is really well liked. People are happy to be able to setup their plan and just forget about it so removing this is a hard sell for CCP. From that point on, you have to give players a reason to log in that is often enough to matter (if it's once a month, it's not worth the effort to develop) and relatively easy so chances are you will still have some "game will" to do something after it in game. If they make the task something meaningful that lakes some time, they have a higher risk of player doing it and quitting. 1st daily wins like in WoT are an example of that. A lot fo people would do their 1st win and stop playing because getting that first win could easily take over 15 mins. Adding to a skillqueue for example just took a few seconds.

The activity to get you online also has to be realtively easy in game term to make sure everyone can be the "log-in that will make stuff happen". If you ask people to scan a WH, you lost a good chunk of player because some can't scan anyway while shooting a rat is possible for at least 99% of the characters in game. (You technically might have a market alt with extracted weapon skill which would be unable to kill a frig rat but those are not likely to be numerous)

The reward need to be attractive. If you give nothing, the log-ins won't happen. Nobody will long-in just to log in. You can try many things but in EVE, there is one ultimate carrot. The carrot that makes people orange with envy. The one that people are the most likely to do what you ask of them for it. That carrot also has a few bonus attached to it. You are monetizing it in a way that even people with a metric ass ton of it will have a use for it while most other resources might not. This is why SP was chosen and not anything like LP which some people are too damn rich to care about, ISK for the same reason, special LP because people might not want to spacebarbie their character and aurum because this mean killing their own income. SP is valuable to everyone and does not destroy CCPs revenue like aurum would.

Now the first problem come but funnily enough, it's not a CCP problem but a playerbase problem. You see, the carrot that trumps them all really DOES trump them all at an insane level. Players are really going to go out of their way to get it. That carrot is way too tasty. It's a sugar coated candy stuffed with caramel served in a bowl of melted chocolate and the players are sugar deprived kids. We technically can all go down in our own way eating or apple ignoring the treat we can only obtain by juggling chainsaw while jumping through fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard but a lot of people just can't skip it. Hell they are willing to arrange of set of chainsaw with automatic gas refilling to make sure they get it the most often possible. This si technically all on them even if they will accuse CCP of making them do it. CCP never said "Thou shall juggle chainsaw while jumping fire hoops over a piranha pond in a blizzard". All they are doing it saying "Hey guys, we're leaving to you everything you used to have but if you ever feel like doing and extra thing, we'll give you something for it".

This is what CCP is announcing right now. The choice will stay in each player's hand just like all the choice we don in game. The requirement for the reward is something more than likely just so we can't just crash the client as soon as it load so we can do it faster while still begin extremely short, easy and not really "gameable" like PvP kills would be.

Holy molly I don't think Ive ever agreed with a post as much as this one and its a goon.

It's like I'm taking crazy pills.


It's the saddest post I think I ever wrote...
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1586 - 2016-04-14 13:00:37 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

and what was the reason you don't log that often?

Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.

.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1587 - 2016-04-14 13:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Tippia wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Nope. They want you to log-in and do something and for that, they are willing to
…give you something that cannot be had in any other way: time. In order to get this unique and incomparably valuable commodity, you are forced to engage in an activity that serves absolutely no other purpose.



But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie. Why would you lie like that just to win an internet argument?

At this point in time in Eve SP = ISK and ISK = SP.

The ENTIRE THREAD is laughably silly (as is your extreme measures to win it) if you consider that single fact.

Ratting for ISK, Station Trading for ISK, Wormholes, Industry, PVP (Moons, loot, corp theft, etc.) In fact any single activity that rewards ISK in some way REWARDS SP BECAUSE SKILL INJECTORS.

I am finding the amount of energy going into fighting this one of the single most amusing things in a long time.

.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Evander Armistice
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1588 - 2016-04-14 13:08:37 UTC
Hi CCP Rise,

I understand that the goal is more log ins and I personally have no issues with giving out small amounts of sp to encourage it. I just wish you would introduce a more elegant way to do it. 10k for the first npc kill seems very clunky and "un-Eve". I wish you would find a better avenue to reward log ins.
Love what you have done in the past, I think you can do better with this.

Thanks for reading
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1589 - 2016-04-14 13:17:19 UTC
Evander Armistice wrote:
Hi CCP Rise,

I understand that the goal is more log ins and I personally have no issues with giving out small amounts of sp to encourage it. I just wish you would introduce a more elegant way to do it. 10k for the first npc kill seems very clunky and "un-Eve". I wish you would find a better avenue to reward log ins.
Love what you have done in the past, I think you can do better with this.

Thanks for reading


The whole reason why this idea is trash is because rewarding log-ins is stupid. We should log-in because the product is deserving of our time. Not because some specific mechanic is based on logging in. More people log in right now because there is fun to be had in the game with the war. Once that war is over, what will be the reason? It should not be an artificial reason like a daily.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1590 - 2016-04-14 13:40:32 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

and what was the reason you don't log that often?

Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.


Rubbish.

People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1591 - 2016-04-14 13:51:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

and what was the reason you don't log that often?

Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.


Rubbish.

People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE.

So you're saying his personal experience and reasons for doing something is... not true?

What?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1592 - 2016-04-14 13:52:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Happy with the update... this way I won't feel forced to log in alts every day that I normally only use for rare, special tasks.

Well, I wouldn't have done it anyway because too lazy, but this way I will not feel bad for missing out on the reward :D

I actually think this is a good feature. Pretty sure it will motivate me to log in on more days than I do now, and that is a good thing.

and what was the reason you don't log that often?

Inertia.

After work, many days I feel it is too much effort to log in to EVE so I just sit and watch some stupid movie I already know or don't do anything at all. But if I do somehow manage to log in (either because I force myself or a corp ping motivates me enough), I may stay and play for several hours.

With EVE this is more an issue than with other games because on any given day you don't really know if you will find interesting content or just 'waste' your time trying to find it. This makes it especially hard to overcome this 'log-in threshold' sometimes. You just think: 'Maybe tomorrow, today I'm too tired. And I don't miss out on anything so it doesn't matter whether I play today or tomorrow'.

Now I'm sure many people don't get this and will just say 'so if you don't want to log in, just don't, why should we care'. But CCP cares, and if a sizable number of players are like me (and I think that is probable), it totally makes sense from their point of view to introduce a feature like this.


Rubbish.

People who don't log in every day don't log in because they don't have time. No amount of SP reward will change that and to bring in this kind of daily reward will only serve to punish the people who simply do not have the time in the day to play EVE.


Wrong. People WILL log in for SP.
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#1593 - 2016-04-14 14:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnathan Coffey
So let me get this straight. Instead of improving the game so that players actually WANT to log in and play, you bribe us with SP to log in and do a task that is both less exciting and less challenging than solving a captcha...

Now that I think about it, can we just straight up get a captcha instead? Preferably here in the forums, so I can do it at work and not waste time logging in my 15 accounts every evening.


edit: A somewhat more serious response.

CCP Rise wrote:
Why Dailies?
So first lets talk a little history. EVE had a daily logon incentive for most of it's existence: the 24 hour skill queue limit. Back in Phoebe, we removed those limitations. Now, at the time, we were of two minds internally. We didn't like the experience around being punished for not logging in to update your queue, but also knew that some of those logins might be leading to meaningful gameplay and we shouldn't lightly let go of them. We leaned to the side of a better experience and removed the limitations, hoping that the logins we were generating were fairly empty, rarely leading to more actual activity in the universe. Well, it turns out we were wrong about that. Now, with before and after data we can see that making it into the client is a huge step towards real activity, even if the reason for logging in in the first place seems artificial. So this leads us to where we are now, attempting to find ways to create more logins that also don't feel like such a punishment as the skill queue limitations did. This may not turn out to be the perfect alternative but that's what we're looking for.
These are not the daily active users you are looking for. Yes, a few of them will stay logged in and do something else, but most of them will just curse this new system even more than they did the 24hr skill queue, and many of them will get tired of the routine and quit. Increasing your DAU/MAU is done by making a better product, not by bribing your customers into it.

CCP Rise wrote:

Why Skillpoints?
There's been a lot of feedback here that this kind of feature would be acceptable if the rewards were more monetary, either LP or ISK or something similar. There's a few reasons that doesn't really work and we feel pulled towards SP. I think the biggest one is that many people simply won't be motivated by LP or ISK, especially in the amounts we would be restricted to giving. SP simply has higher demand across more playstyles and player ages and that just makes it a more powerful incentive. Second big reason that we actually tried designs using item and ISK rewards and it quickly creates a lot of economic imbalances. Any time we are giving something away without much activity cost we are heavily sabotaging someone's gameplay. Whether it's because of devaluing LP, causing major inflation, or crashing item markets, it's all bad for you guys so we would rather avoid it.
You are right that SP is in demand across many play styles. But undocking isn't, let alone shooting rats or most of all, logging in daily. I'm reminded of the good old days in WoW where you HAD to do copious amounts of dragon killing to get the most effective weapons for PvP.

CCP Rise wrote:

Why so lazy?
Lots of feedback about the feature having such a minimalist implementation. First, let me clear up some confusion by saying that this feature has no relationship with the 'Tribute' system that was described last year at EVE Vegas. That feature has actually gone down a path more focused on goal setting and long term engagement than daily activity and so the daily part was broken off and given to our team separately. With that in mind, we are trying to find the right mix of activity and accessibility. We want you to be able to collect this reward during a lunch break or a 10 minute period where your kids are in timeout but also want to make sure there's some real gameplay associated with it. We think getting to a belt or gate for an NPC is about the right mix and that's why we've landed with this. That said, we've also deliberately tried to keep it simple so that we can deploy fast and adjust based on how it gets used. We are absolutely open to expanding the list of activities in the future and imagined that as one of the most likely first iterations. Small sidenote on activities: many of you mentioned PVP, remember that this is always problematic because the most effective way to PVP for rewards is just kill your own alt, which isn't very fun or interesting.
The current implementation is way way waaaaay too minimalist (to take your own term). As I said in my little rant above, you might as well give us captchas to solve, that's how tedious and boring it is. Calling it 'real gameplay' to me is a euphemism at best.


And now for some constructive proposals:
First, and most importantly, many of your customers aren't able or willing to log in all of their accounts daily, and pushing them to do so won't do them or CCP any favor. If you want to increase engagement, you should find more dynamic and less coercive ways to do so.

Second, if you decide to stick with the undock and shoot something, at least make it a X times per week thing, preferably with X < 3. That way, one can fit it into his or her gaming schedule and other commitments more easily.

Thirdly, if you feel you need to force players to undock, you still shouldn't force them to train combat skills. Consider just having aura offer distribution missions in the same system where you have to pick up a small item in space or something similar.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.

Tollix Yolo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1594 - 2016-04-14 14:28:53 UTC
I think this is a poor idea. It goes against one of the reason I signed up for Eve in the first place as I couldn't guarantee daily logins and would go inactive but maintain my sub due to personal reasons and events out of my control and maintain a competitive skill point gain. With this change I would be severely less competitive than a player that is capable of committing to this task. Skill Injectors did change this but this is still SP that was generated via the SP/Hr method, and thus the balance is maintained to a degree.

Secondly lets assume you keep the npc rat event trigger. This npc rat is not a 10 minute quick task that you can do in a lunch break in all areas of space.

Take WHs for an example if there are no sigs/sites in you home hole (yes this has happened to me) you have to scan the neighboring holes completely then check for activity. Now maybe you can kill your 1 npc rat if the site is solo able ( as this is a quick task so I should be able to do this alone without organizing a fleet). This quite possibly will take longer than 10 min which is your stated target time for this opportunity. Alternatively I can move to HS and be able to complete this task on a whim. So essentially as I see it in a way you are trying to bribe me out of a WH for SP. Additionally you would like to force players to miss out on this opportunity in times when it is not possible to perform the task or just stupid to try eg. Eviction/ War dec/Null war or any combat condition where more than a frig is required in hostile territory.

If logging in and getting side tracked by the people online is your stated goal then make the complete condition talking in a corp channel. That way it is the same time and commitment for all areas of space and the chances of the player interacting with another player that could get them involved in something meaningful is increased.

Note: First prize would be to cancel this change completely and go back to the drawing board.
Chjna
the Goose Flock
#1595 - 2016-04-14 14:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Chjna
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Chjna wrote:
This thread is filled with comments that points out that other stuff is like:
Quote:
skill injectors are accepted, and why should this not be?

It's like saying that Clamydia can't be bad, as you already have Syphilis.

The reason that you did not complain that much about getting Syphilis, is that the guy you got it from was so sexy, that you forgot to think about how this would affect you in the long run.

This time around, he is not that good lookin, you are all out of birth control pills, and you know he is infected.
Most of all, you really do not want to raise a demanding kid by yourself, even if you would receive child maintenance.




Us capsuleers have accepted a lot of changes for the worse and all the time does ccp get it the way they want in the end. Last time when we shoot the monument, what did it acchive? appart from a new model for the monument? -Looking at this new feature, Nothing.


You can avoid the second infection just like you can avoid the burn-out from the opportunity system...


Precisely, by not implementing it.

Remove T2 BPOs

Manic Velocity
Bank Robbers
#1596 - 2016-04-14 14:41:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Manic Velocity
What troubles me most about this is that it will undoubtedly be an effective motivator to get people logging in and undocking. There will be more people in space, and the PCU will increase. But not because this is a good mechanic that adds depth and complexity to the overall gameplay. It's only an effective motivator because it blatantly takes advantage of something deeply rooted in our psychology.

And even worse is that this is no secret. This is exactly why similar mechanics are used in other MMOs. Because it just works.

I won't deny that more people undocked and in space is a good thing. But does it have to come at the cost of considering why they're undocked and in space? If the only reason they're undocked and in space is because they're doing what CCP tells them they should do, at a regular interval as determined by CCP, then this mechanic goes against everything that the sandbox is about, and it diminishes the free-form player agency that EVE prides itself on.

CCP, I don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of when I log into your game. I know you're going to implement this anyway, despite the backlash from the community, but still I feel compelled to plead that you reconsider.

"The most punchable face in New Eden."

Be excellent to each other.

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Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1597 - 2016-04-14 14:42:42 UTC
Tollix Yolo wrote:
maintain a competitive skill point gain.

And what is that? Either you have good skills for a particular task or you don't. For every possible task there will always be a large number of players who have a lower skill level in it and a large number of players who have an equal or higher one.

If I have 40, 80 or 120m SP on my main, getting this 20% bonus SP for daily logins does not affect my overall competitiveness. I already have a lot of gameplay options available where I can have very good skills. More SP just gives me more options, and the bonus SP gives me these options faster. But I will never 'lose' against another player in any way because he gained SP 20% faster than me.

The only case where this 20% makes a real difference is very new players still on the way to achieving really good skills for even a single ship or task, and they should generally be more active and it is good if they get a tangible reward for being active every day.

.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1598 - 2016-04-14 14:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Anize Oramara wrote:
But Tippia, that's a bald faced lie.
No.
Again: injectors do not create time. None of the activities you list create time; much less SP.

All you're demonstrating is that it would be infinitely better if the rewards came in the form of ISK, same as with every other activity you can choose from.
Cyan Moonwinder
Cyta Corp
#1599 - 2016-04-14 15:01:01 UTC
I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#1600 - 2016-04-14 15:09:48 UTC
Cyan Moonwinder wrote:
I highly approve of this idea. Despite some people yelling about EVE becoming a modernized MMO, it gives incentive to players to login everyday. Despite it being a bit -too- simple to me, I feel it's still a great way to accelerate newer players who would desperately need those skill points, or a veteran player who is happy to chip away at that massive rock of a 10+ day train time.

I'd also like to focus on the 'modernization' thing, the training system needs something to help make it easier for newer players to attain skills for trying things in the game out, and I personally think this would be perfect in the long run to help bring in new blood.

Why should i feel incentivized to log in every day? Or in other words, if i have to log in every day to get the most out of my game, why should I play EVE and not some other game? Or in yet other words, why should I be punished for not being able to log in every day and why should I not just walk away instead of taking the punishment?

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.