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Citadels are now on Singularity

First post
Author
Arline Kley
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#181 - 2016-03-23 15:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Arline Kley
Eli StanAlso wrote:
Anybody got a primer on control permissions? I can take control of my Citadels with the director character I used to deploy them, but not with other characters. I've double-checked corp roles, groups, profiles and skills - far as I can tell I should be able to take control of Citadels, but the button does nothing. I can't tell if I'm doing something wrong or if this is a bug.


Currently only CEO's/Directors can take control of a citadel. In my opinion, that is more dangerous than it sounds; I'd rather have role management allow individuals the privilege of maintaining the thing rather than someone with more authority than required.

For example:

A role "Citadel Management" (or even Station Management) that gives control/fitting/refueling rights with lesser ones for refueling.


*edits*

God i'm failing on foruming today..

"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57

sokotony
Ornery Cantankerous Curmudgeons
#182 - 2016-03-23 16:02:52 UTC
Has there been a discussion about how the timers negatively affect the small corps out there?

The current unanchor timer is 7 days. Like it or not most small corps don't have the people to handle high sec war decs, so we pack up and unanchor everything. Then when the war is over, we anchor it back up. With the new timers, this won't be possible.

It seems that this is taking away a huge set of gameplay from the small group. Are these timers permanent?

Soko
Somebody TheGreat
Somebody's Corp
#183 - 2016-03-23 16:13:15 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Not sure if this is intentional or not, but it does not appear to be possible to activate a Cyno while tethered. The only feedback when attempting to light the cyno is not very informative: "Your ship is realigning its magnetic field, please wait a moment."

Locking a target, in this case a jettisoned can, without any further action, causes the tether to drop allowing me to light the cyno within tethering range but remain untethered.
If I remove the can by looting it, the can pops, no timer, and tether re-enages (the cyno is not active).

This makes sense that you cannot light the cyno while tethered. So:

1 - Will it be possible to light a cyno and cause the tethering to break just as you can lock something and cause tethering to break?

2 - Will CCP create something similar to the Cynosural Generator Array for Citadels?


1: Amusingly that was how it worked on SISI a few days ago, with tether dropping when you activate the cyno, so I suspect that we will see that when they get to TQ

2: Not for citadels, AFAIK. Thats most likely going to go on a different structure.
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#184 - 2016-03-23 16:23:43 UTC
sokotony wrote:
Has there been a discussion about how the timers negatively affect the small corps out there?

The current unanchor timer is 7 days. Like it or not most small corps don't have the people to handle high sec war decs, so we pack up and unanchor everything. Then when the war is over, we anchor it back up. With the new timers, this won't be possible.

It seems that this is taking away a huge set of gameplay from the small group. Are these timers permanent?

Soko


I agree with what you said. However, the more I thought about it, the more I began to see how it may not be to bad.

This will require testing to determine exactly how good a citadel is against subcaps (with logi).

Yes, it takes you 7 days to unanchor, but a medium is only vulnerable for what 3 hours (I am thinking 6 for high sec but can't remember).

This gives you options.

Putting the time around downtime may work due to the enemy being logged or having to fight downtime itself.

Putting it so only 1-2 hours every few days it is vulnerable would also help as the enemy would have to coordinate the attack in a smaller window. Again, you could probably defend the citadel from a small-medium gang depending on logi.
Ace Aideron
Red Falcon Group
#185 - 2016-03-23 16:37:44 UTC
1. While controlling an XL, clicking "Launch all fighters" doesn't always launch all tubes (though it *sometimes* does). Same for recall all.

2. Also while controlling, every once in a while the overview stops showing a bunch of things. Sometimes, clicking on another tab and back will refresh things, but sometimes not.

3. The Standup Signal Amplifier I doesn't seem to be working. The max target range before installing is 400 km, and it doesn't change after installing.

4. The Market Hub being disabled after reboot has happened twice more.

5. I'm not seeing any station services in the menu on the right side of the screen (under where the corp name is). I have a Cloning Center installed, and it doesn't seem to be available, either.

6. The description of the Variable Spectrum ECM indicates that it should take scripts -- but it doesn't.


Suggestion: it would be helpful if self-inflicted damage against your own ships or drones was shown differently somehow -- maybe a different color? The issue came up for me while using the Point Defense gun. It's area defense, which is great, except if you have heavy fighters out, in which case the fighters get hit. Blue damage reports make it look like good news, but of course it's not.

Also, with the lovely looking, carefully crafted docking bays, it's a shame that the visual indication of docking is for ships to just cloak. It would be cooler if they were rapidly tractored into a random (but close and appropriately sized) docking bay.


I should add that I think all of the citadels are visually wonderful. I was expecting bigger versions of the current stations -- these are so, so much more. Really great! Congrats to everyone who made them possible.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#186 - 2016-03-23 17:04:52 UTC
The testing areas I was interested in were setting up and taking down of the Citadels.

Setting up: There needs to be a way to move them vertically. Maybe hold down some key, and you get vertical movement?

Both setting up and taking down: It was my understanding that Citadels were to be a replacement for the POS, along with POS functionality. But in this area Citadels fail totally. I can set up a small POS is a very short time, and take it down just as fast. They can be used tactically. But Citadels cannot. They take one day to set up, and a WEEK to take down. This limits them to more strategic uses. A basic POS function is lost. Example:

The "POS in a can" Wormhole day trip. Your corp puts a POS and some modules in a industrial, goes into a WH, and sets up for a day or two. At the end, you take it all down and go home. This cannot be done with Citadels as they stand now.

A new use: The mobile market that follows incursions about. Citadels are too slow in their set up and tear down to make this idea viable.

The current times, one day up, 7 down, seem appropriate for the extra large, as it is a strategic asset. I recommend shorter times, maybe much shorter, for the smaller sizes. I think the medium should go up and down as fast as a small POS. The large, a few hours up, a dozen to take it down.

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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2016-03-23 17:26:55 UTC
Arline Kley wrote:
Eli StanAlso wrote:
Anybody got a primer on control permissions? I can take control of my Citadels with the director character I used to deploy them, but not with other characters. I've double-checked corp roles, groups, profiles and skills - far as I can tell I should be able to take control of Citadels, but the button does nothing. I can't tell if I'm doing something wrong or if this is a bug.


Currently only CEO's/Directors can take control of a citadel. In my opinion, that is more dangerous than it sounds; I'd rather have role management allow individuals the privilege of maintaining the thing rather than someone with more authority than required.

For example:

A role "Citadel Management" (or even Station Management) that gives control/fitting/refueling rights with lesser ones for refueling.


*edits*

God i'm failing on foruming today..


That will be implemented via the Groups and Structure Browser windows, looks like. Create a group first, then put some characters into it. Then go to Structure Browser, create profile, add Citadels to it, then add group(s) to Docking and/or Defense rights.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#188 - 2016-03-23 18:43:17 UTC
Actually I have a question regarding group permissions.
How to explicitly DENY group an action?

Because in profile management you are adding groups, not setting up permissions which kinda implies explicitly allowing a group an action.

IMHO it should be done POSIX/NTFS ACL style.
Little Bad Wolf
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#189 - 2016-03-23 18:48:02 UTC
How does unanchoring work, how long does it take?

Can they be unanchored while in reinforcement?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#190 - 2016-03-23 19:06:29 UTC
I have two citadels deployed last friday, after a few days of anchoring since the timer reset with every node reboot, a dev wrote a script and anchored all of them (and fixing the anchoring bug too). When i logged in back, both citadels where at 24% armor and they are not repping themself.

Means i can not fit or use them. They are at this state since two days now.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2016-03-23 19:52:29 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Actually I have a question regarding group permissions.
How to explicitly DENY group an action?

Because in profile management you are adding groups, not setting up permissions which kinda implies explicitly allowing a group an action.

IMHO it should be done POSIX/NTFS ACL style.


I'm guessing it'll be through the "Blocked" role in the Groups UI. So if you have a "Citadel Users" group that contains your corp, alliance and blues that you use to allow docking rights, you'll be able to block individuals (or corps) who are members of those corps/alliances from being a member of that group. They would then, one hopes, be unable to dock.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#192 - 2016-03-23 19:57:57 UTC
Little Bad Wolf wrote:
How does unanchoring work, how long does it take?

Can they be unanchored while in reinforcement?

Go to "Structure (something)" under business on the Neocom.
You citadel should be there.
On the line with your citadel, right click and you will see a decommission option.

It takes one week.

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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#193 - 2016-03-23 20:44:11 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
There will not be an alternative to Cynosural Generator Array on first release.


That sounds hopeful for something in the future.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Mister Ripley
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#194 - 2016-03-23 21:04:30 UTC
Some people may get pretty upset if the adds on an in their citadels will advertise for random stuff and not for the corporation/alliance.
Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#195 - 2016-03-23 21:24:23 UTC
Citadels come out of anchoring with 20% armor and 0% shield. At least mine do. I have no way to repair it, and after going through at least one vulnerability timer the Secure timer is stuck at 0s, and it will not let me rep the Citadel even when vulnerable.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2016-03-23 22:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Two more things:


  • I have every Advanced Audio Settings slider set to zero, and I still hear the spooky atmospheric sounds of the Citadel's ship hangar. I assume there will a new "Structure Interior" slider to go along with the "Station Interior" setting"

  • For testing purposes, would it be possible to change online and decommission times to just 10 minutes each? 1 day online and 7 day offline mean there are very few opportunities to test those functions between now and April 27. Along those lines, allow us to change vulnerability timer at any time, instead of just for the next week? I want to shoot my Citadels, but they don't become vulnerable until Saturday...


Thanks!
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#197 - 2016-03-24 00:02:07 UTC
For me over 50% of citadels have the graphic bug where I can see all the lights but not the actual citadel itself.

they look like ghost citadels... spooky... Shocked

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

Lugh Crow-Slave
#198 - 2016-03-24 01:31:00 UTC
sokotony wrote:
Has there been a discussion about how the timers negatively affect the small corps out there?

The current unanchor timer is 7 days. Like it or not most small corps don't have the people to handle high sec war decs, so we pack up and unanchor everything. Then when the war is over, we anchor it back up. With the new timers, this won't be possible.

It seems that this is taking away a huge set of gameplay from the small group. Are these timers permanent?

Soko


the entire point is that if you want to use them you have to risk them
sokotony
Ornery Cantankerous Curmudgeons
#199 - 2016-03-24 01:59:30 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
sokotony wrote:
Has there been a discussion about how the timers negatively affect the small corps out there?

The current unanchor timer is 7 days. Like it or not most small corps don't have the people to handle high sec war decs, so we pack up and unanchor everything. Then when the war is over, we anchor it back up. With the new timers, this won't be possible.

It seems that this is taking away a huge set of gameplay from the small group. Are these timers permanent?

Soko


the entire point is that if you want to use them you have to risk them



Please. That makes no sense for high sec. Most high sec wars are large corps who war dec for business. There is no way a small corp could compete with the likes of PIRAT or the equivalent. It is already inconvenient enough that indy types need to cancel all long running jobs and take things down for the week.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#200 - 2016-03-24 03:08:30 UTC
sokotony wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
sokotony wrote:
Has there been a discussion about how the timers negatively affect the small corps out there?

The current unanchor timer is 7 days. Like it or not most small corps don't have the people to handle high sec war decs, so we pack up and unanchor everything. Then when the war is over, we anchor it back up. With the new timers, this won't be possible.

It seems that this is taking away a huge set of gameplay from the small group. Are these timers permanent?

Soko


the entire point is that if you want to use them you have to risk them



Please. That makes no sense for high sec. Most high sec wars are large corps who war dec for business. There is no way a small corp could compete with the likes of PIRAT or the equivalent. It is already inconvenient enough that indy types need to cancel all long running jobs and take things down for the week.

You could hire a merc corp for defense. Or learn how to use the citadel wapons now. (If they work as intended)

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

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