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March release - General feedback

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Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#401 - 2016-03-12 09:27:22 UTC
There are lot lot of people complaining about the changes of watch list and buddy list -

A few post above this one, was probably the best idea for what the list should be.

But here are my two cents - the old watch list was to strong. The new buddy list is to weak.

CCP, not to bust any balls, ****** up by changing things with out creating a balance.
The watchlist provided to much "free" intel.
Now, CCP will at some point realize they half assed it, and will introduce something to offer players a way to know log in log off of other players.

Now, I remember CCP Seagull speaking about how they messed up in many ways with the smaller patches and that they would bring back the big patches because of the fracturing in features that should have been released together.

I have a twinkle of hope, this issue will be fixed by fanfest

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#402 - 2016-03-12 09:43:49 UTC
Module tiericide was something. many many likes for cap batteries, damage modules, sensor boosters. and grapplers. Fozzie you awesome.
Dorian West
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#403 - 2016-03-12 13:04:02 UTC
Captain headquaters > Scope news - they are so damn loud and there''s no way to disable it (except overall client mute). CCP, in the name of all the gods - save me from this because after 1000th time I am so alergic to "Serpentis syndicate". This drives me so mad. Hope you'll get rid of it
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#404 - 2016-03-12 14:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
CCP Lebowski wrote:
There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, the information provided is 100% accurate all the time without any risk to the pilot’s receiving it. This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this).


Calling that a non-choice is like calling not minimising your overview a non-choice, because minimising it will deprive you of information. There is nothing wrong with giving people information which assists interaction between players. The primary goal in an mmo should always be to maximise interaction (of all kinds) between players, and basic online/offline intel is not very strong except in ONE case: supercapitals.

The only reason it's strong for supercapitals is a different design choice: they're unable to dock, effectively forcing supercapital pilots to be dedicated to flying only their super. This is the real problem, not the watch list, and it's a problem you already have a solution in the works for: citadels. A supercapital pilot logging on is only perfectly useful intel currently because you know that he is going to be in space in his super. When supers are moored at citadels, he's just a pilot who can fly a super and has one, and it's his own fault if he makes the intel perfect by never doing anything else.

Quote:
Secondly, a pilot concerned about people watching them has no in-game choice to counter this overpowered source of information.


The primary counter to being watch listed is to afk in station a lot. It's not a very interesting counter, but very effective and most people do it by accident. On that note, I would not be fundamentally opposed to the watch list being reintroduced but not changing status to online until you undock, and maybe until you warp if you log in in space, but I think any changes from the original design are unnecessary and probably undesirable. The change of completely removing it as a pvp feature, which is what you did, is certainly undesirable to say the least.

Quote:
They can either log in and face the fact that notifications have instantly appeared for everyone wanting to hurt them, or simply not play.


Sorry, what? Did you suggest that people wanting to "hurt you" is a bad thing in EVE?

Quote:
We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause.


Almost everything that I consider my core gameplay is completely reliant on the watch list. Hunting anyone without it is unreasonable, absolutely no life allowed 23/7 camping territory. You do realise that everyone is offline MOST of the time, right?

In order to hunt someone without a watch list, you locate them and they're in space or in station, either could be logged off. Now your only option is to go there and wait for days, weeks, months on end, staying logged in all day, every day watching until your eyes bleed for them to appear in local. Such great "gameplay" there. I know there are a few people who are willing to do this, and others who will abuse the log server to automate this, but even for them that's dedicating a character to just sitting in a system doing nothing instead of just doing other things while targets are offline. Removing the watch list is attacking the entire hunter play style, it's in no way just a "short term inconvenience", it's destroying a profession that creates interesting content. This isn't something that can be adapted to, you either have a life or you can very painstakingly hunt a single person at a time, maybe getting one encounter with a target (you certainly can't handle multiple targets) every couple of months at the expense of your job, family, health and sanity.

I am struggling to decide whether I can find enough gameplay left to justify continuing to play, and even if I do I'm definitely going down to a single account. EVE is at best on life support for me.

EDIT: No, you can't have my stuff.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#405 - 2016-03-12 14:16:24 UTC
And in case it's not clear, although citadels are the solution to supercapital intel issues, they are not in any way a jesus feature. The only thing worse than structure gameplay is unassailable structure non-gameplay. You have massively overspecified citadel defenses both in term of the basic man hour requirements to destroy one without, or even with, dreadnoughts, and in terms of their active defenses. Speaking of their active defenses I should point out that...

Quote:
This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this).


Defending a citadel is an actual non choice in the sense you supposedly oppose, because there is absolutely no risk in boarding a citadel and using its defensive modules, unlike fielding a fleet.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#406 - 2016-03-12 14:21:15 UTC
I just got a wartarget disappear from me in local and without running a locate I have no way of knowing if he is online or not, would be nice if we at least had watchlist for people in our local system.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
River Almond
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2016-03-12 14:43:19 UTC
I only came here because the station video is the most annoying thing ever.

Please give us an option to mute the audio sequence of station videos playing. Thx.
Yeng Constantine
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#408 - 2016-03-12 15:03:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Yeng Constantine
Last night after update I was switching camera's turning on some new camera features and my laptop freeze for couple of minutes? And also when switching between columns in the overview. Did anyone notice this?

And oh yeah I lost my ship when my laptop froze. :(
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#409 - 2016-03-12 16:04:57 UTC
Helios Anduath wrote:
This may have happened in an earlier release but I haven't been undocking as much lately ;)

The change in order of the options when you right click on the first routing point with an autopilot route set is a little annoying.

It used to be just right click > jump through stargate. Now, the first option is "look at" and there is another option before jump in the list. Surely jump is the most common and important task when right clicking a waypoint (or warp-to/dock for stations)) so shouldn't they be at the top? Also, muscle memory sucks...


Good point but... Who the hell still uses right click menu for basic commands? I use shortcuts or the much improved radial menu.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Miss Peregrine
Miss Peregrine Corporation
#410 - 2016-03-12 16:17:05 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
CCP Lebowski wrote:
There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, the information provided is 100% accurate all the time without any risk to the pilot’s receiving it. This means that the best (and really only) choice for a pilot is to add enemies, as it doesn’t cost them anything and they don’t put themselves at any risk by doing it. We've discussed before how we’re not really keen on non choices in New Eden (See the clone removal for one example of this).


Calling that a non-choice is like calling not minimising your overview a non-choice, because minimising it will deprive you of information. There is nothing wrong with giving people information which assists interaction between players. The primary goal in an mmo should always be to maximise interaction (of all kinds) between players, and basic online/offline intel is not very strong except in ONE case: supercapitals.

The only reason it's strong for supercapitals is a different design choice: they're unable to dock, effectively forcing supercapital pilots to be dedicated to flying only their super. This is the real problem, not the watch list, and it's a problem you already have a solution in the works for: citadels. A supercapital pilot logging on is only perfectly useful intel currently because you know that he is going to be in space in his super. When supers are moored at citadels, he's just a pilot who can fly a super and has one, and it's his own fault if he makes the intel perfect by never doing anything else.

Quote:
Secondly, a pilot concerned about people watching them has no in-game choice to counter this overpowered source of information.


The primary counter to being watch listed is to afk in station a lot. It's not a very interesting counter, but very effective and most people do it by accident. On that note, I would not be fundamentally opposed to the watch list being reintroduced but not changing status to online until you undock, and maybe until you warp if you log in in space, but I think any changes from the original design are unnecessary and probably undesirable. The change of completely removing it as a pvp feature, which is what you did, is certainly undesirable to say the least.

Quote:
They can either log in and face the fact that notifications have instantly appeared for everyone wanting to hurt them, or simply not play.


Sorry, what? Did you suggest that people wanting to "hurt you" is a bad thing in EVE?

Quote:
We understand that for many people, this will fundamentally change the way you can use the (now renamed) buddy list, and we apologize for any short term inconvenience this may cause.


Almost everything that I consider my core gameplay is completely reliant on the watch list. Hunting anyone without it is unreasonable, absolutely no life allowed 23/7 camping territory. You do realise that everyone is offline MOST of the time, right?

In order to hunt someone without a watch list, you locate them and they're in space or in station, either could be logged off. Now your only option is to go there and wait for days, weeks, months on end, staying logged in all day, every day watching until your eyes bleed for them to appear in local. Such great "gameplay" there. I know there are a few people who are willing to do this, and others who will abuse the log server to automate this, but even for them that's dedicating a character to just sitting in a system doing nothing instead of just doing other things while targets are offline. Removing the watch list is attacking the entire hunter play style, it's in no way just a "short term inconvenience", it's destroying a profession that creates interesting content. This isn't something that can be adapted to, you either have a life or you can very painstakingly hunt a single person at a time, maybe getting one encounter with a target (you certainly can't handle multiple targets) every couple of months at the expense of your job, family, health and sanity.

I am struggling to decide whether I can find enough gameplay left to justify continuing to play, and even if I do I'm definitely going down to a single account. EVE is at best on life support for me.

EDIT: No, you can't have my stuff.








CCP, Five O, QA dept - Hope you guys are paying attention to this stuff.


Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#411 - 2016-03-12 16:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Lorenzio
Yeng Constantine wrote:
Last night after update I was switching camera's turning on some new camera features and my laptop freeze for couple of minutes? And also when switching between columns in the overview. Did anyone notice this?

And oh yeah I lost my ship when my laptop froze. :(


That sucks. Petition it. I hear the time it takes them to answer petitions had gone up by a lot. Not sure if it's because they're cutting down on GM staff too or because they're breaking things every couple of weeks now or both but keep in mind might take over a week to answer.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Aknan
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#412 - 2016-03-12 17:27:21 UTC
Somme bug enconters with discovery
Lots of loading problemes with the dicovery project,
some time it's changing wath you picked as answers.

some time it's do not give you some xp.

Sisters new items:
Can't not be sold on market and do not show up if you try to find them in contract:
Arton Agittain
Doomheim
#413 - 2016-03-12 17:35:15 UTC
I don´t get why hunters would be hurt by the loss of the extremly overpowered watch list (or hit list as it should have been called). I always imagined hunting meant looking for prey in general but since the hitlist appearantly is such a critical feature for hunters it must mean they (as in those who relied on the hit list) always hunt for specific targets which to me sounds more like harassment then actual hunting.

The only time going after a specific target would seem 'legit' to me is if said target had previously done something 'bad' but I get a feeling that's not the reason why many people want this overpowered feature back. Again I'm not aiming to be hostile but simply find it puzzling that so many seem to feel this particular change breaks the game.

Since I haven´t really played the game that much yet I assume I'm missing something so if anyone want to educate me on why the hitlist needs to be returned to it's previous state feel free to do so.
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#414 - 2016-03-12 17:42:11 UTC
Arton Agittain wrote:


I don´t get why



Obviously.

Arton Agittain wrote:


Since I haven´t really played the game that much



Evidently.

Arton Agittain wrote:


if anyone want to educate me on why the hitlist (#suchdrama) needs to be returned to it's previous state feel free to do so



No. Lots of decent posts about it preceding yours.

Poor trolling. 1/10.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
Arton Agittain
Doomheim
#415 - 2016-03-12 17:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Arton Agittain
Mortlake wrote:
Arton Agittain wrote:


I don´t get why



Obviously.

Arton Agittain wrote:


Since I haven´t really played the game that much



Evidently.

Arton Agittain wrote:


if anyone want to educate me on why the hitlist (#suchdrama) needs to be returned to it's previous state feel free to do so



No. Lots of decent posts about it preceding yours.

Poor trolling. 1/10.



Thank you for this very informative post.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#416 - 2016-03-12 17:59:44 UTC
Arton Agittain wrote:
Mortlake wrote:
Arton Agittain wrote:


I don´t get why



Obviously.

Arton Agittain wrote:


Since I haven´t really played the game that much



Evidently.

Arton Agittain wrote:


if anyone want to educate me on why the hitlist (#suchdrama) needs to be returned to it's previous state feel free to do so



No. Lots of decent posts about it preceding yours.

Poor trolling. 1/10.



Thank you for this very informative post.


Browse through the thread and you'll see plenty of explanations why its removal is a bad thing. There's a good one on this page above your post.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Arton Agittain
Doomheim
#417 - 2016-03-12 18:06:41 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
For the buddy list, might it be possible to have different trust levels?

Corporation Members
Alliance Members
+10 standings
+5 standings
Neutral
-5 standings
-10 standings

Then adjust the DEFAULT settings as follows:

Corporation Members: automatically visible on buddy list if you add them - unless THEY uncheck the box that shows their status to other corporation members.

Alliance Members: automatically visible on buddy list if you add them, unless THEY uncheck the box that shows their status to other alliance members.

+10 standings: if both parties have standing set to +10, they are automatically visible to each other, unless THEY uncheck the box that shows their status to other +10's

+5 standings: if both parties have standing set to +5, they are automatically visible to each other, unless THEY uncheck the box that shows their status to other +5's

Neutral and lower - do not appear on buddy list unless both parties set standings and agree to it.

Thus, for my main account, I could allow anyone I trust to see when I log in or out. But I may not want the entire corporation, alliance, or coalition to be able to see when I log in my Titan pilot, so I uncheck those options for him.


Now this is a good post ... a constructive idea instead of just a big UNDO that most other posts seems to demand ... I endorse this idea (not that I think that matters much).
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#418 - 2016-03-12 18:21:59 UTC
Arton Agittain wrote:
I don´t get why hunters would be hurt by the loss of the extremly overpowered watch list (or hit list as it should have been called). I always imagined hunting meant looking for prey in general but since the hitlist appearantly is such a critical feature for hunters it must mean they (as in those who relied on the hit list) always hunt for specific targets which to me sounds more like harassment then actual hunting.


Yes of course it's a "hit list", what's wrong with that? Being a hit man is a wonderful ability in EVE that shouldn't have been removed. And yes it would be called harassment in other games, but EVE isn't other games, harassment has a very narrow definition for EVE.
Elzek Thiesant
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#419 - 2016-03-12 18:22:33 UTC
Not a huge fan of the bong but that isn't really killing it for me. No more watchlist is a huge change and makes long-term hunting targets really tough. With that being said, I haven't been able to locate anything CCP has put out as to why they made this change. I would like to see that before I react too harshly...
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#420 - 2016-03-12 18:34:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
OMG! the ship kill animation is awful. Please make it so it can be turned off. It is like a bad 80's videogame.

On a side note why do you guys keep tinkering with things that were not broken? And if you feel that it is absolutely necessary to mess around with things that work - at least dont make them measurably worse in every respect.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.