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[March] Heavy Stasis Grapplers

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Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#321 - 2016-03-09 15:29:52 UTC
Would allowing grapplers on combat battlecruisers be a bad idea?
Terraj Oknatis
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#322 - 2016-03-09 21:49:39 UTC
I just tried the T2 grappler on the test server with a rapid heavy raven VS a Claw orbiting at 20km with a long point as tackle.


The grappler increased the damage to the interceptor from 12 per hit to 18 per hit on missiles.

The drones did a little better but a good interceptor should still be able to hold down a battle ship no problem while eliminating drones.

In my opinion this moduel is not strong enough to counter a cetpor orbiting at 4k at 20 KM.

The myth that the moduel would slightly change the frigs orbit enough to get good hits is false. There was no major disruption in the orbit of the interceptor, and its speed was only slightly decreased.

If you wanted to counter ceptors then increase the effective range of heavy nuets so that you could eventually turn off their prop.

This web is not working the way everyone thinks it should be working.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#323 - 2016-03-09 21:54:24 UTC
Terraj Oknatis wrote:


The grappler increased the damage to the interceptor from 12 per hit to 18 per hit on missiles.



Your missiles did 50% better.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#324 - 2016-03-09 22:33:19 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Would allowing grapplers on combat battlecruisers be a bad idea?

BCs are probably the hull on which these grapplers would really shine.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#325 - 2016-03-10 02:33:04 UTC
Terraj Oknatis wrote:

This web is not working the way everyone thinks it should be working.


Well at 20KM you are pretty far into falloff so anyone who understands the falloff mechanic will know that it would be ineffective .

That being said I think that it will help a lot for ships that rely upon orbiting at very close range. Things like Assault frigs, short range dessies/cruisers , hell even a Blaster or Auto BC can orbit a BS at 500m and be OK in many cases (No Web or AB fit).

PS. Get a heavy neut for those pesky Inties. They either get nueted out or come into range to get a NOS on you and then the Grappler works more.
Admiral Icarus Raidriar
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2016-03-10 13:56:52 UTC
Can't wait to fit this on my Prophecy. (Guessing it's a Medium Module)

Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#327 - 2016-03-10 14:54:30 UTC
Admiral Icarus Raidriar wrote:
Can't wait to fit this on my Prophecy. (Guessing it's a Medium Module)


unless its turned into a battleship overnight then no..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#328 - 2016-03-10 19:35:26 UTC
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
what slot is this mod?


I shouldn't even make the comment.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#329 - 2016-03-10 21:10:52 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
what slot is this mod?


I shouldn't even make the comment.


You know you want to.
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#330 - 2016-03-10 21:41:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#331 - 2016-03-10 21:56:56 UTC
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#332 - 2016-03-10 22:08:52 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?


Technically the Golem I guess.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#333 - 2016-03-11 12:00:44 UTC
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..

This reads to me as "I will ignore significant part of proposed solution because I don't like it for subjective reasons (also insert an insult of choice), and then complain that what is left of that solution doesn't work".

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#334 - 2016-03-11 14:24:42 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?


I mean.. its really not hard to murder frigs in a battleship. You just fit for it.

Missile BS are especially good at this. RHML is the obvious choice. But with webs/missile computer even cruise missiles apply decently. Just last night i killed a dual RF MSE svipul with my cruise phoon. Before that i killed a dual rep a-type confessor with cruise missiles. Frigs arent hard to kill.

But when you only have a long point and web (or grappler) then complain about not applying, thats your own fault. Same principle when people brick tank drakes. "Drakes/HAMs suck because they dont apply when all i fit is a scram" but have a 100k EHP tank. Fit for frig killing and you can kill them easily as well as everything else except other battleships. And its not like BS are as common as frig/cruiser gangs, so its a fair trade in the current meta.

Other turret ships like the pest also work well because they can neut out frigs as they close in, preventing them from scramming. I recently killed a dual prop dram and dual prop mal with my pest because i nuked their cap and then pulled range to pop them.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#335 - 2016-03-15 18:50:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?

2 accounts.

A belicose or any bonused painter ship is going to massively help a BS hit a frigate. in the case of a sniper DOmi, it will insta pop them.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#336 - 2016-03-15 21:18:08 UTC
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Alysha Saronn wrote:
Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..


You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.

Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?

2 accounts.

A belicose or any bonused painter ship is going to massively help a BS hit a frigate. in the case of a sniper DOmi, it will insta pop them.



to be fair, he did specifically state "ship" in the singular, and then followed-up with solo. A bellicose+domi combo is neither of those things.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#337 - 2016-03-15 21:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Poranius Fisc
[quote=Stitch Kaneland
to be fair, he did specifically state "ship" in the singular, and then followed-up with solo. A bellicose+domi combo is neither of those things.[/quote]
It stated a solo friagte, nothing about you being solo.

Where do people get this whole "honor fight at the sun" thing?

The heavy stasis grappler, while plenty powerful might help for the "I have it on my armor bs in case im in a pinch" fit, but I'd rather stick a Target painter on a damage ship, or fly a cruiser to take on frigates.

Range is too short.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#338 - 2016-03-15 22:45:28 UTC
Poranius Fisc wrote:


It stated a solo frigate, nothing about you being solo.

Where do people get this whole "honor fight at the sun" thing?


No... no it didnt.

It stated:

Quote:
What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?


Maybe the better way to read it would be "what battleship would you use to solo frigates with, that has a bonus to tracking and TP?"

This isn't an honor "fight at sun" kind of thing. Its a reading comprehension thing. Solo tends to be pretty specific, as in 1 ship/account fighting. Not, "i have a 15man bomber gang being multiboxed by 1 person, so i'm still solo lulz".

I see the whole conversation, and you mentioned:

Quote:
Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


Which led to the previous statement, because it made it sound like you were talking about a single ship that has a bonus to target painters and tracking.

Even the original statement mentions:

Quote:
You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.


Implying that the topic is a SOLO battleship killing frigates

Disclaimer: I probably put more effort into this response than needed, but i'm bored.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#339 - 2016-03-15 23:48:18 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:


It stated a solo frigate, nothing about you being solo.

Where do people get this whole "honor fight at the sun" thing?


No... no it didnt.

It stated:

Quote:
What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?


Maybe the better way to read it would be "what battleship would you use to solo frigates with, that has a bonus to tracking and TP?"

This isn't an honor "fight at sun" kind of thing. Its a reading comprehension thing. Solo tends to be pretty specific, as in 1 ship/account fighting. Not, "i have a 15man bomber gang being multiboxed by 1 person, so i'm still solo lulz".

I see the whole conversation, and you mentioned:

Quote:
Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.


Which led to the previous statement, because it made it sound like you were talking about a single ship that has a bonus to target painters and tracking.

Even the original statement mentions:

Quote:
You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.


Implying that the topic is a SOLO battleship killing frigates

Disclaimer: I probably put more effort into this response than needed, but i'm bored.


in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.

2 accounts running 2 ships is not multi boxing 15 bombers. thats a pretty far right comparison. EIther way, i threw off origional topic involving the new grapplers, which wont help you in a solo situation.

Removing the painters and multiboxing 15 bombers, perhaps this might be more useful on BS's holding cap's to stop them from re-entering a POS shield, or something like that. they allready move very slowly so IF you can hold and bump them further out, the speed reduction makes them crawl even more.. 1 would probable be enough with others having a backup as you bump them further out.
Ace Lapointe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2016-03-16 00:23:51 UTC
Terraj Oknatis wrote:
I just tried the T2 grappler on the test server with a rapid heavy raven VS a Claw orbiting at 20km with a long point as tackle.


The grappler increased the damage to the interceptor from 12 per hit to 18 per hit on missiles.

The drones did a little better but a good interceptor should still be able to hold down a battle ship no problem while eliminating drones.

In my opinion this moduel is not strong enough to counter a cetpor orbiting at 4k at 20 KM.

The myth that the moduel would slightly change the frigs orbit enough to get good hits is false. There was no major disruption in the orbit of the interceptor, and its speed was only slightly decreased.

If you wanted to counter ceptors then increase the effective range of heavy nuets so that you could eventually turn off their prop.

This web is not working the way everyone thinks it should be working.


A 50% increase against a Ceptor, something even Cruisers stuggle to deal with effectively.. And your complaining? Jesus, your a hard one to please.