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[March] Heavy Stasis Grapplers

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Author
FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#341 - 2016-03-16 07:11:45 UTC
Poranius Fisc wrote:


in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.



One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2016-03-16 13:09:19 UTC
FT Cold wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:


in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.



One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight.



While in reality that sounds how it should be and sounds like all is working as intended, but the point is they can still scram you from OH scram range and then coast out of that grappler's 10km+ falloff; read ineffective, web and it does nothing since now the BS is stuck for 3mins waiting for the MJD cooldown to finish. For these webs to truly benefit BS classes, especially given their fitting and cap requirements, these need to be significantly better than the average t2 web at 10km, and then start having falloff and decreased effective go from there.

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FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#343 - 2016-03-16 17:31:48 UTC
Yun Kuai wrote:
FT Cold wrote:
Poranius Fisc wrote:


in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.



One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight.



While in reality that sounds how it should be and sounds like all is working as intended, but the point is they can still scram you from OH scram range and then coast out of that grappler's 10km+ falloff; read ineffective, web and it does nothing since now the BS is stuck for 3mins waiting for the MJD cooldown to finish. For these webs to truly benefit BS classes, especially given their fitting and cap requirements, these need to be significantly better than the average t2 web at 10km, and then start having falloff and decreased effective go from there.


If they're in scram range then they're in neut optimal. Shut down their scram and warp, or turn on your mwd and murderzone them. Besides, not everything trying to scram you is going to be a ceptor with an overheated republic fleet scram and links or is Chessur and manually piloting in a tight cone under your ship. These weren't made to replace webs, just to be an alternative to them or to be paired with them on dual web setups. Because you can point out an instance where they don't perform well doesn't mean they can't work well at all. Seems to me like they're working as intended.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#344 - 2016-03-16 19:47:53 UTC
When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take the grappler over standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#345 - 2016-03-16 20:21:56 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take the grappler over standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram.

And because ceptors always travel alone...........

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#346 - 2016-03-16 20:29:12 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take a grappler over a standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram.

And because ceptors always travel alone...........


Ceptors are the fastest ships in the game. So unless its a ceptor blob (which isnt unheard of), the rest of the ships will be well behind the ceptor. Making it easy to single him out for easy popping.

This taking into account youre not warping to gates at 0 and actually being cautious of camps or local spikes. Not much you can do if youre on the receiving end of a gate camp. But if you have a gamg chasing you, warping at 100km from a gate for positioning works much better than landing at zero and trying to outrun frigs/ceptors.
Beta Maoye
#347 - 2016-03-17 18:20:36 UTC
Optimal range is too low. The size of a battleship is already 1km. Minimum orbit range is about 2-3km. A little bit increase in optimal range to 2km would fit its purpose.
Ace Lapointe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#348 - 2016-03-17 22:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ace Lapointe
Beta Maoye wrote:
Optimal range is too low. The size of a battleship is already 1km. Minimum orbit range is about 2-3km. A little bit increase in optimal range to 2km would fit its purpose.


I used this last night in combination with a Single Scram, I held and killed a Pontifex at 5km, and it wasn't moving at all, also locked down a Machariel at 5km but he managed to get on the gate to de-aggressed and jumped.

The thing works amazingly, if you have used it you would have noticed, works lovely in duels, and in tournaments too, just watch the Spectre Fleet tournamnet comming up, almost every Battleship will be fitted with one over the standard web, and plus, Battleships don't uses Webs to control range against Frigates and Cruisers, we use them to slow the target down enough to Apply more DPS, not to dictate, you can only dictate in a BS fight against other BS's, but then that is stupid as the shortest range BS guns will hit fine at 10-20km, so that makes the Web a moot point of dictation.
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
#349 - 2016-04-08 18:03:54 UTC
Please, oh please, OH PLEASE! Let us fit these to Barge/Exhumer hulls. My Skiffs pilots are hungry for this one!Twisted
Luscius Uta
#350 - 2016-04-27 12:42:38 UTC
Considering that they don't benefit from Web-bonused hulls nor from warfare links, I think it might not be a terrible idea to introduce a rig that increases their strength or range.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Ace Lapointe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#351 - 2016-04-29 00:48:51 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
Considering that they don't benefit from Web-bonused hulls nor from warfare links, I think it might not be a terrible idea to introduce a rig that increases their strength or range.


CCP! THIS! ALL OF THIS! :D
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
White Sky.
#352 - 2016-05-23 04:39:46 UTC
Someone may have asked this. But are they targeted or aoe?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#353 - 2016-05-23 06:34:13 UTC
darkneko wrote:
Someone may have asked this. But are they targeted or aoe?


.... targeted.. why not just use one?