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[Citadels] Changing NPC taxes

First post
Author
Valuv
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2016-03-03 14:46:57 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
Valuv wrote:
If XL citadels are allowed in high sec, this is a good change, as it would open up huge amounts of new gameplay options.



No citadels in jita or amarr, shattered WH or Thera

No other restriction

XL's everywhere


Man, that is awesome. Now if they also allow caps in high sec, everything will great again.
luobote kong
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-03-03 14:47:52 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
luobote kong wrote:
So the general drift is some people will in future have to ask permission from others to be able to play Eve competitively? I'm thinking small groups and solo players who also can't set up a market in a medium citadel. Good luck with that if that is your intention. Or have I missed something?



Medium Citadels can't fit the market service module - L and XL only


That is my point. Small groups and solo players are being coerced into other people's playstyle
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2016-03-03 14:51:19 UTC
Valuv wrote:
If XL citadels are allowed in high sec, this is a good change, as it would open up huge amounts of new gameplay options.


yes just not the ones related to the player owned market that CCP see happening.

Unless the new market citadel is owned by a huge group that has the manpower to truely defend the structure from ALL of Eve, no one will use one.

If you have to either pay 5% in taxes to sell your items or 20% to get the items back should the citadel be destroyed, you are going to just pay the higher taxes and stay in an NPC station.

If we are honest, the only groups in the game that could even consider putting up an xl in high sec to function as the new "Jita Market Hub" would be Goons, NC., and/or PL. If anyone else does, the other groups will burn it to the ground because that is what Eve is.

With the tax changes, all CCP has done is ensure prices will rise across Eve.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2016-03-03 14:53:05 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:
Valuv wrote:
If XL citadels are allowed in high sec, this is a good change, as it would open up huge amounts of new gameplay options.


yes just not the ones related to the player owned market that CCP see happening.

Unless the new market citadel is owned by a huge group that has the manpower to truely defend the structure from ALL of Eve, no one will use one.

If you have to either pay 5% in taxes to sell your items or 20% to get the items back should the citadel be destroyed, you are going to just pay the higher taxes and stay in an NPC station.

If we are honest, the only groups in the game that could even consider putting up an xl in high sec to function as the new "Jita Market Hub" would be Goons, NC., and/or PL. If anyone else does, the other groups will burn it to the ground because that is what Eve is.

With the tax changes, all CCP has done is ensure prices will rise across Eve.


Asset recovery to the same system is free.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

Valuv
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-03-03 14:54:08 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:
Valuv wrote:
If XL citadels are allowed in high sec, this is a good change, as it would open up huge amounts of new gameplay options.


yes just not the ones related to the player owned market that CCP see happening.

Unless the new market citadel is owned by a huge group that has the manpower to truely defend the structure from ALL of Eve, no one will use one.

If you have to either pay 5% in taxes to sell your items or 20% to get the items back should the citadel be destroyed, you are going to just pay the higher taxes and stay in an NPC station.

If we are honest, the only groups in the game that could even consider putting up an xl in high sec to function as the new "Jita Market Hub" would be Goons, NC., and/or PL. If anyone else does, the other groups will burn it to the ground because that is what Eve is.

With the tax changes, all CCP has done is ensure prices will rise across Eve.


Fine by me to be honest. More reasons to fight, more player driven content.
Alexhandr Shkarov
Deepsafe Orphanage Ltd.
#26 - 2016-03-03 14:55:03 UTC
Muon Farstrider wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We are planning to increase that amount to 5m ISK to install a jump clone in NPC stations. That price will also be payable anytime a clone is left behind in a NPC station - so, if you jump clone away from a NPC station from previously established jump clones you will still pay that price.


Wat. Every time I jump out of a clone while docked in an NPC station I'm going to have to pay 5m isk? That's absurd. 5m for initial installation is a bit of a steep jump from the existing fees but reasonable for a one-time cost, but essentially a 5m fee every time you want to use the jump clone system is crazy.

Please tell me I'm misinterpreting this, or if I'm not, please think that through a bit more. Not everyone lives somewhere where there'll be abundant friendly citadels to get around that - and to boot, the people who don't (hisec/lowsec dwellers) are also the ones who are most likely to have a large, spread-out geographic area that they use the current jump clone system to get around in.


Assuming we go by your interpretation, it actually makes sense.
We need to cut down the constant JC jumping and make people commit to an area of space. Also EVE needs ISK sinks and reasons to move to player owned structures / Citadels. Deal with it.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.

Alexhandr Shkarov
Deepsafe Orphanage Ltd.
#27 - 2016-03-03 14:56:20 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Scotsman Howard wrote:
Valuv wrote:
If XL citadels are allowed in high sec, this is a good change, as it would open up huge amounts of new gameplay options.


yes just not the ones related to the player owned market that CCP see happening.

Unless the new market citadel is owned by a huge group that has the manpower to truely defend the structure from ALL of Eve, no one will use one.

If you have to either pay 5% in taxes to sell your items or 20% to get the items back should the citadel be destroyed, you are going to just pay the higher taxes and stay in an NPC station.

If we are honest, the only groups in the game that could even consider putting up an xl in high sec to function as the new "Jita Market Hub" would be Goons, NC., and/or PL. If anyone else does, the other groups will burn it to the ground because that is what Eve is.

With the tax changes, all CCP has done is ensure prices will rise across Eve.


Asset recovery to the same system is free.


Which in turn means that should your tradehub be blown up, your assets will be safe to be picked up in another station.
So in Jita it may be worth having a XL if that gives you tax benefits over the tax from the station itself.

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.

CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2016-03-03 14:57:25 UTC
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#29 - 2016-03-03 14:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Akrasjel Lanate
Is the goal to make NPC stations to be second category in longer term ?

The goal should be for people to put those in stationles systems assuming those systems will have to offer anything in term of localization or resources.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Mia Markaya
Unlimited Blade Works.
#30 - 2016-03-03 15:04:48 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.


What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim?
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#31 - 2016-03-03 15:07:23 UTC
Mia Markaya wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.


What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim?

CCP Ytterbium whats the max tax owner will be able to set up ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2016-03-03 15:09:45 UTC
Mia Markaya wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.


What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim?

Nothing.

Aren't player-driven economies grand?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Dave Stark
#33 - 2016-03-03 15:13:01 UTC
Querns wrote:
Mia Markaya wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.


What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim?

Nothing.

Aren't player-driven economies grand?


dunno, nobody will leave jita to find out.

between having docking rights revoked, taxes changed on a whim, the citadel itself likely to get wardecced by everyone and it's dog as soon as it's anchored...

6% tax seems pretty trivial to avoid all that hassle.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2016-03-03 15:15:01 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Querns wrote:
Mia Markaya wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
MuraSaki Siki wrote:
just to clarify the market tax

after the changes, when trading in citadels, transaction tax goes to system, and broker's fee goes to the owner. Is that right?


Correct. The broker's fee in Citadels isn't fixed. The owner can set 0% if he wants.


What's stopping the owner to switch it from 0% to 100% at a whim?

Nothing.

Aren't player-driven economies grand?


dunno, nobody will leave jita to find out.

between having docking rights revoked, taxes changed on a whim, the citadel itself likely to get wardecced by everyone and it's dog as soon as it's anchored...

6% tax seems pretty trivial to avoid all that hassle.

As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2016-03-03 15:15:54 UTC
Although I can pay it with ease, the on use jump clone fee seems really counter to what I thought was the original idea, of letting new players get out into risky situations without needing to worry about expensive clones.

Making it so that they have to either pay 5 mil to jump into a clone, or search around to find someone with a public access citadel with a cloning bay and no JC fee seems like a bad decisions for a small isk sink.

You are going to pull untold billions out of the market each day through those brutal market transaction fee's, 5 mil a clone jump is inconsequential in comparison.

Leave it alone, think of the newbies.
Dave Stark
#36 - 2016-03-03 15:20:03 UTC
Querns wrote:
As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.



pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2016-03-03 15:21:33 UTC
Anhenka wrote:
Although I can pay it with ease, the on use jump clone fee seems really counter to what I thought was the original idea, of letting new players get out into risky situations without needing to worry about expensive clones.

Making it so that they have to either pay 5 mil to jump into a clone, or search around to find someone with a public access citadel with a cloning bay and no JC fee seems like a bad decisions for a small isk sink.

You are going to pull untold billions out of the market each day through those brutal market transaction fee's, 5 mil a clone jump is inconsequential in comparison.

Leave it alone, think of the newbies.

This is not a very good place to use the "appeal to newbies" tactic. Jump clones, in this scenario, are being used to protect implants. A set of +3s costs a person 40-50m isk simply to plug in. If they can swing +3s, they can probably swing a jump clone once in a while to protect those +3s. A newbie who legitimately is too poor to afford a 5m jump clone fee also can't afford the implants he'd be using the service to protect in the first place.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2016-03-03 15:22:32 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Querns wrote:
As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.



pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk.

The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
#39 - 2016-03-03 15:23:26 UTC
If you have good standings these 6% will melt significantly, and since transaction tax remains everywhere, I don't see how can a citadel attract many traders, unless its guarded by a huge force 23/7 and earns itself a good reputation. Then again, we have events like burn Jita which will only change the system name accordingly.
Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#40 - 2016-03-03 15:25:14 UTC
Querns wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Querns wrote:
As usual, the reward will go to those willing to take the risk.



pretty sure having items stuck in the asset recovery system, which iirc isn't instant, are going to be rewarding you with nothing but tied up isk.

The reduction of those 5% fees is the reward.

You can argue all you want, but no one will use your goon citadel in Jita as main trading hub.