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Watchlist changes incoming.
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Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#21 - 2016-02-27 04:47:02 UTC
Sten Taxi wrote:
They did that over 6 months ago.

I agree with watchlists going though, it is an overpowered intel tool. The main drawback being esclations just got even safer.


That was sarcasm. Cool

I remember when they removed WH API, saying how they will replace it with gameplay, where you would have to drop an anchorable to gather the data as you would at the time. I'm still waiting on that.

I agree that the watchlist is OP, but removing it and not replacing it with something is just going to make the lives of hunters more difficult, and the bears even safer.

Not that it will matter soon, with the dread gun changes capital escalations in their current form will be worthless, unless you(smart)bomb sleepers. Signs have pointed towards them redoing/removing capital escalations around if not at the same time as that release though. Surely they wouldn't leave them as is, right? Big smile

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#22 - 2016-02-27 05:32:37 UTC
What should happen is that if you rock up to a Citadel in w-space, you get to join the owning corporation's Corp chat channel to see if any of them are logged in.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Suzanne Khale
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#23 - 2016-02-27 16:26:59 UTC
Goodbye added haulers pilots in POS which made me jump 2-3 WHs back when get online, and give some hauler kills.

Let's make WH life safer.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-02-28 21:42:56 UTC
Ah yes, here we see the classic WH population response:

Expected impact of change on wh life: 'OMFG, the world is ending, whs are done for!'
Actually impact of change on wh life: 'wait, they changed something?'

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#25 - 2016-02-29 01:24:58 UTC
I think the watchlist changes aren't a big deal right now because you can still peer into the crystal ball of the POS shield. When the Citadels arrive and you can't see who's around, life is going to change a lot. I think it's too early to call everyone who is wary of the WL changes a bunch of whining ingrates.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Michael1995
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#26 - 2016-02-29 01:59:45 UTC
Nah nah, listen to Jack, the Revelation is also the best PVE dread!

Selling WH CFC Standings 10b/month for +10 with: Lazerhawks, Hard Knocks, Overwatch This, Many Vacancies, Golden Showers, Friendly Probes, Isogen Memed.

Join up for swag C3 Gila/Osprey ratting fleets daily! We also rent C2s out with CV effect!
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-02-29 02:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Trinkets friend wrote:
I think the watchlist changes aren't a big deal right now because you can still peer into the crystal ball of the POS shield. When the Citadels arrive and you can't see who's around, life is going to change a lot. I think it's too early to call everyone who is wary of the WL changes a bunch of whining ingrates.


This is pretty much the elephant in the room.

Watchlist removal we can deal with...but with everyone hidden in citadels.. scouting becomes signicantly harder and more time consuming as you cant dscan for ships in citadel/POS as a quick indicator of that wormholes current activiity level.

Was hoping that our current and future WH CSM reps would be all over this.... but I guess its not on Goons or PLs radar Roll

Its going to be great for people who just use wormholes as farmholes though..

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Frank Armour
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-02-29 02:49:23 UTC
I'm not a WH hunter or dweller so you can already use that argument against me but I really don't get what is all this fuzz about loosing that precious intel...
You never had this intel (see in stations/citadels) anywhere else and you are now going to be on even ground with WH dwellers. You used to just get in there without nobody noticing you and then hide near a POS. You can see the ships the guy have, his habits, hell, you could even figure out the planets where he did his PI for ...sake. Now you'll actually have to catch him when he's out of his citadel and without knowing what he is going to fly if he comes back to his citadel!!! I call this a move from CCP to even out the field in WH and encouraging people to set up shops in WH.

And -1 on the idea of making a cloaky ship that can target and scan. You have to think of the useage outside of WH space. That'd be too overpowered.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#29 - 2016-02-29 03:11:15 UTC
Frank Armour wrote:
I'm not a WH hunter or dweller so you can already use that argument against me but I really don't get what is all this fuzz about loosing that precious intel...
You never had this intel (see in stations/citadels) anywhere else and you are now going to be on even ground with WH dwellers. You used to just get in there without nobody noticing you and then hide near a POS. You can see the ships the guy have, his habits, hell, you could even figure out the planets where he did his PI for ...sake. Now you'll actually have to catch him when he's out of his citadel and without knowing what he is going to fly if he comes back to his citadel!!! I call this a move from CCP to even out the field in WH and encouraging people to set up shops in WH.

And -1 on the idea of making a cloaky ship that can target and scan. You have to think of the useage outside of WH space. That'd be too overpowered.


Your forgeting the huge intel advantage K space has.... LOCAL.

Without local WH dwellers need other ways to see if people are present. Without spending an hour in each system hoping someone comes out of a citadel.

LOL people like you have had their content handed to them by FCs and scouts.. and just think it just magically happens without intel gathering or work. Remove the ability to gather intel you remove content.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-02-29 05:35:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Trinkets friend wrote:
I think the watchlist changes aren't a big deal right now because you can still peer into the crystal ball of the POS shield. When the Citadels arrive and you can't see who's around, life is going to change a lot. I think it's too early to call everyone who is wary of the WL changes a bunch of whining ingrates.

That's an issue with Citadels in general. It's one I, and many others, immediately called out when CCP first announced docking in wspace, but it has little to nothing to do with watchlists.
citadels will certainly change wh life, no question there. for the worse though? well, it will not appeal to some portion of the wspace population who like the stealthy scouting hunting aspect, and i certainly include myself in this group, but it also will appeal to many other people I expect so it's a trade off in the end.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#31 - 2016-02-29 05:40:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Frank Armour wrote:
I'm not a WH hunter or dweller so you can already use that argument against me but I really don't get what is all this fuzz about loosing that precious intel...
You never had this intel (see in stations/citadels) anywhere else and you are now going to be on even ground with WH dwellers. You used to just get in there without nobody noticing you and then hide near a POS. You can see the ships the guy have, his habits, hell, you could even figure out the planets where he did his PI for ...sake. Now you'll actually have to catch him when he's out of his citadel and without knowing what he is going to fly if he comes back to his citadel!!! I call this a move from CCP to even out the field in WH and encouraging people to set up shops in WH.

And -1 on the idea of making a cloaky ship that can target and scan. You have to think of the useage outside of WH space. That'd be too overpowered.

calling out WHs having it too easy to gather intel from anyone living and flying in space with local is a bit rich, even for me.
the difference is in wspace the hunter has the slight intel advantage, while in kspace the hunted has such an enormous advantage that it's really a joke.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Frank Armour
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-02-29 06:25:47 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Frank Armour wrote:
I'm not a WH hunter or dweller so you can already use that argument against me but I really don't get what is all this fuzz about loosing that precious intel...
You never had this intel (see in stations/citadels) anywhere else and you are now going to be on even ground with WH dwellers. You used to just get in there without nobody noticing you and then hide near a POS. You can see the ships the guy have, his habits, hell, you could even figure out the planets where he did his PI for ...sake. Now you'll actually have to catch him when he's out of his citadel and without knowing what he is going to fly if he comes back to his citadel!!! I call this a move from CCP to even out the field in WH and encouraging people to set up shops in WH.

And -1 on the idea of making a cloaky ship that can target and scan. You have to think of the useage outside of WH space. That'd be too overpowered.


Your forgeting the huge intel advantage K space has.... LOCAL.

Without local WH dwellers need other ways to see if people are present. Without spending an hour in each system hoping someone comes out of a citadel.

LOL people like you have had their content handed to them by FCs and scouts.. and just think it just magically happens without intel gathering or work. Remove the ability to gather intel you remove content.


1st of all. I've never forgot about LOCAL like you say. You leave in WH, it never had a local and you survived so far without it. Not having local is part of living in a WH so nothing changes here.

2nd. Sometimes, luck of the draw is what you need and that's what's gonna be good with the changes. No more seeing your targets log on and instantly be a threat. I call this a plus on people who wants to join WH living. It gives them a fighting chance.

3rd. I've never said that Intel was easy to get or that what you did was easy. I know very well how intel can be hard to get and time consuming. Even with a local chat! I can only imagine the time it takes to get all the intel I mentionned in my first post but it's a choice YOU are making as an individual. It's way easier to get into fights in low or null but that would put you at a disadvantage would'nt it?
KC Kamikaze
Blue-Fire
#33 - 2016-02-29 20:58:05 UTC
This change is absolutely proper to do. Thanks ccp!

WH dwellers don't get any intel that's why wh's are dangerous.

Petition CCP for a wormhole bear citadel upgrade that gives you a local channel.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#34 - 2016-03-01 08:24:54 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
I think the watchlist changes aren't a big deal right now because you can still peer into the crystal ball of the POS shield. When the Citadels arrive and you can't see who's around, life is going to change a lot. I think it's too early to call everyone who is wary of the WL changes a bunch of whining ingrates.

That's an issue with Citadels in general. It's one I, and many others, immediately called out when CCP first announced docking in wspace, but it has little to nothing to do with watchlists.
citadels will certainly change wh life, no question there. for the worse though? well, it will not appeal to some portion of the wspace population who like the stealthy scouting hunting aspect, and i certainly include myself in this group, but it also will appeal to many other people I expect so it's a trade off in the end.


Personally, I don't know I can sustain both changes. I can do without a WL when I can see people sitting in a POS. I can deal with a Citadel when I can see people on a WL via looking on eve-hunt or zkill and chuck a few on WL for shizengiggulz. Together?

I can't really see how you're supposed to do cloaky hunting except by tossing bait into sites and hope someone bites. Then Chance et al. will complain they want to know if an alt is controlled by someone else and will want their IP to appear on mouse-over and declare that the same IP is used by, eg, TF

it's that kind of dumb we are seeing.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Mimiko Severovski
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#35 - 2016-03-02 00:21:47 UTC
And with no watchlist, farming will be even safer than hsec incursions.
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
#36 - 2016-03-02 00:31:47 UTC
The Citadel is supposed to light up if someone is logged in and inside, so we haven't lost ALL intel on active people around though its severely limited. I foresee a lot of alts who's whole existence is based around staying online permanently to make that intel source useless.

For us its going to be changing our intel tool to look more in depth at potential daily playtimes for characters in corps and using that to judge if its worth keeping an alt around in system to look out for someone. People are creatures of habit and don't change countries weekly.One of the things I've been most worried about with EVE is that it becomes more about who has the best IT department, not the best pilots. This will be another step down that path for W Space.
Koston Eld
Extra Galactic Expeditions
#37 - 2016-03-02 01:19:48 UTC
This is not helping the farmers, this is helping the hunters way too much. Without watchlist, even if you do see someone sneak into your WH, what do you do now? You can't tell if they logged off, you can't tell if they jumped thru another wormhole. Cloaky camping a WH that looks like people mine in or rat in is going to be killer now! The watchlist helped protect a bit against not having local but without both there isn't much to do. I'll bet quite a few corps move out of whs after this.

The only saving grace is hopefully the citadel intelligence array thing. Hope it adds a system scanner to just tell you f there is a cloaky camped in system or even a pseudo local chan for residents would be killer. Give some benefit to those of us who want to live in a WH, not just those that hunt in them.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-03-02 22:27:13 UTC
Koston Eld wrote:
This is not helping the farmers, this is helping the hunters way too much. Without watchlist, even if you do see someone sneak into your WH, what do you do now? You can't tell if they logged off.

^someone finally said it and it's spot on.
watchlists help the prey just as must, if not more than, the hunters.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Leeluvv
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2016-03-03 19:29:38 UTC
Koston Eld wrote:
This is not helping the farmers, this is helping the hunters way too much. Without watchlist, even if you do see someone sneak into your WH, what do you do now? You can't tell if they logged off, you can't tell if they jumped thru another wormhole. Cloaky camping a WH that looks like people mine in or rat in is going to be killer now! The watchlist helped protect a bit against not having local but without both there isn't much to do. I'll bet quite a few corps move out of whs after this.

The only saving grace is hopefully the citadel intelligence array thing. Hope it adds a system scanner to just tell you f there is a cloaky camped in system or even a pseudo local chan for residents would be killer. Give some benefit to those of us who want to live in a WH, not just those that hunt in them.


Or just stop doing wormholes solo.
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#40 - 2016-03-05 17:08:15 UTC
I just hope they provide an auto-remove for every conctact from my contact list, that is on watchlist but not mutual. Because there is no way I gonna clear that sh't myself. But who am I kidding... well time for a "delete all" I guess...
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