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The Best Feature Idea I've ever read
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Defecanda
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2012-01-11 11:29:55 UTC
It doesn't have to be a linear or pure log penalty. You could set a minimum lock requirement to take effect that would not penalize small gang tactics, but would be detrimental to blobs.

[i][b]CCP Zulu.....      Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. [/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]
Defecanda
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2012-01-11 11:35:41 UTC
Actually, a good idea would be to set the penalty to every 3 targets; i.e. only modify lock time at 4th target lock, 7th target lock, 10 target lock ,etc . . ..

[i][b]CCP Zulu.....      Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. [/b](i like to steal sigs)[/i]
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#163 - 2012-01-11 12:18:02 UTC
Why so all fleet fits add Se Bo II and Se Link II's?
You make and sell them......don't cha.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2012-01-11 12:33:30 UTC
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
No.

Just no.

If your fleet is linked up to the point of knowing what someone else's hull, armor and shield amounts are, you WILL be sharing targeting data. In fact, if anything, you'd get better lock on times as the amount of sensors on target would light up the target like a goddamn christmas tree in the middle of July.

I mean, let's go with the basics.

There are four sensor types in EVE that can be boiled down to this.
Gravometric - LOOKIT THAT. THAT SHIP HAS ENOUGH MASS TO DISTORT GRAVITY. ITS RIGHT THERE.
LADAR - IT SHOOTS A LASER AT THE TARGET. DOES THE LASER COME BACK? YES? TARGET LOCKED.
RADAR - SHOOT SOME RADIOS AT IT. BLAST THEM WITH BAD JPOP. DOES IT COME BACK EVEN WORSE? YES? TARGET LOCKED.
whateverthefuckthe Minmatar use... Probably a guy in a crow's nest or something with a telescope screaming rage and obscenities down a copper tube to the guys in gunnery who use hand cranks to rotate and align the turret. REGARDLESS. IS IT THERE? YES. SHOOT IT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN ITS NOT ****** THERE YOU ******************* SHOOT IT. ****!

As for "Blob Tactics." All I hear is "Baww, the enemy had more people and a good doctrine."

Which is to say, They fight like Soldiers. Professionals who use proven gear using proven tactics. Stop fighting like warriors who are in it for the dickwagging contests. Want to fight the blob? Get your own fleet together. Establish a doctrine, get people in the ships that are required for the doctrine and go from there.

"But that's blob warfare!" So? Deal with it. Stop playing WoW in a fleet fight and start playing Soldiers in a Fleet Fight and you might actually get somewhere.

Killmails are the worse feature in EVE.


Yeah, because every battle in history, everyone shoots at the same person, one at a time. Roll

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#165 - 2012-01-11 12:38:07 UTC
Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanksRoll

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2012-01-11 12:49:20 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanksRoll

Ahahahahha
Ahahahahha
Ahahhahaha
Nope!
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2012-01-11 13:13:09 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanksRoll


Yeah, war news reports are full of stories about 300 Stealth Bombers taking out one tank. Roll

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-01-11 13:15:08 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Nope, but in the modern ones they shure love to do that to tanksRoll


Yeah, war news reports are full of stories about 300 Stealth Bombers taking out one tank. Roll


Well if that tank can survive 299 Stealth Bombers .. then maybe.. depend on price tag of that flight Big smile
Mirima Thurander
#169 - 2012-01-11 13:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirima Thurander
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Q_Q



Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen.

1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs.
2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic.
3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence.
4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it.
5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships.
6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more.
7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well.

Status Quo preserved.

There's a reason why this thread died in Ships And Modules.




holy ******* **** man and the glass is half empty

edit1


let me go ahead and say to ever one that goes QQ L2 BLOB like us, your a ******* idiot or a troll, i cant see why any one would want less strategy in there game, and to the ones OMFG IT R HARD to do strategy in lag, have you forgotten TIDI.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2012-01-11 13:55:55 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
Aestivalis Saidrian wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Q_Q



Simple: Its why you don't have the problem of this completely arbitrary mechanic that does absolutely nothing for the game other then make the following happen.

1) Only Logistics are found in small gangs.
2) Small gangs all lock each other to abuse this mechanic.
3) Blobs Do Not Change. Targeting is handed down to squad level, leaving squad leaders to designate targets. People still get alpha'd out of existence.
4) x8 Large Smart Bomb Titans hotdrop into fleets, erase everything when 200 people can't lock it.
5) SeBo II with Lockon script becomes standard issue on all ships.
6) Haters gonna hate Falcons even more.
7) Everyone will carry shield/armor rep drones. After all, those lock onto people as well.

Status Quo preserved.

There's a reason why this thread died in Ships And Modules.




holy ******* **** man and the glass is half empty


Real Questin is ? Does this glass exist or is it just projection of my brain ? I can touch it but do i really touch the object or is it just another projection Big smile
Mirima Thurander
#171 - 2012-01-11 14:13:25 UTC
understand CCP codes the game none of you do*, no one has the right to dictate how a part of it should work, unless there a dev,
so unless you have a blue tag next to your name there's no way for you to know whether it would work or not.







*( and if you do man the hell up and voice your support/or say why it wont work and stop posting on an alt)

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2012-01-11 14:54:26 UTC
I'm no fan of blobs, but if blobbing is to be changed, it should be changed by giving players incentive to not blob - some sort of tactical advantage from splitting up your forces.

Implementing an illogical, fake "stacking penalty" system like this screams un-sandbox like and desperate. They were more prepared than you; they mustered up more might than you; why shouldn't they wipe the floor with you?
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#173 - 2012-01-11 15:03:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank.................
Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo.
I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#174 - 2012-01-11 15:08:02 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank.................
Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo.
I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play.


Wow, it's amazing how much utter garbage you just wrote there. Amazing.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#175 - 2012-01-11 15:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Ya your right tanks taking heavy fire from multiple sources or ships taking heavy fire, or trucks, or...........the only things ever used on tanks are stealth bombers...................even though they couldn't hit a tank with there weapons..............and there payload over kills a tank.................
Also consolidated fire is a common thing in modern warfare. Humans tend not to use it against other humans because we tank like **** so why wast the ammo.
I'm sorry that you don't like human nature using the simplest and easiest tactics to succeed but changing core game mechanics will not change how people try to play.


It is questionable.. majority of blob are carebears. They do it because its required .. Core "pvpErs" prefer real "fight" where the single pilot got its meaning. And they know what they are doing. They are good at it..

If the game-play was changed in the direction of "fun" than it could work. But many people take this game too seriously to allow something like fun into their "e-world"

Sure .. one of the most important rule for PvP is to know what and when engage .. and what you should avoid.. Getting upper hand is way for victory... But by adding "actuall competition" into the equation .. where some challenge is presented.. its more giving but less forgiving. People just try too hard to cut out the "challenge of combat" part .. and instead they are adding so called "meta-gaming" challenge.

PS. I am horrible pilot, i will always lose and die horribly.
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#176 - 2012-01-11 15:51:47 UTC
Why does this have to stop people fleeting ?

Why cant it jus tbe if you target an untargeted ship you do so at 100% speed, if you target a ship already tarteted you will target it at 101% speed, if it has 100 locks on it then its 200% etc

Doesnt matter if the ships doing the targetting are in the same fleet or not.

Or am I missing something obvious?
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#177 - 2012-01-11 15:58:06 UTC
Grateler wrote:
Why does this have to stop people fleeting ?

Why cant it jus tbe if you target an untargeted ship you do so at 100% speed, if you target a ship already tarteted you will target it at 101% speed, if it has 100 locks on it then its 200% etc

Doesnt matter if the ships doing the targetting are in the same fleet or not.

Or am I missing something obvious?


As i understand it its not about current locks on the target.. but about numbers which are currently locking said target..
So if 500 ships tries to lock one ship all of them will be penalized.. if the 10 people locks one target they do it at normal rate ..
then other 10 people can lock it at same time window.. +/-

just as i understand it.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#178 - 2012-01-11 16:20:09 UTC
Giving incentives to smaller groups will be the only successful way to brake up large fleets priming targets.
Any form of decentive will just result in countering the penalty.
This is why fleet fights are this big. The last time they did this they gave us the HP buff and now it takes even more ships for fights. Don't buy it look it up.
Don't think concentrated fire is used on vehicles look it up.
Don't think the easiest most efficient route will be used always buy a human, look it up.
Think I'm a care bear, look it up.
Think I fly in large groups, look it up.
Or I guess we can just pretend that tomorrow if this happened the next day wouldn't be filled with new fleet fits full of Se Bo II's and Se Link II's, and fleet doctrine wouldn't change to locking up 4-6 targets instead of 2 at a time.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Mirima Thurander
#179 - 2012-01-11 17:02:58 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Giving incentives to smaller groups will be the only successful way to brake up large fleets priming targets.
Any form of decentive will just result in countering the penalty.
This is why fleet fights are this big. The last time they did this they gave us the HP buff and now it takes even more ships for fights. Don't buy it look it up.
Don't think concentrated fire is used on vehicles look it up.
Don't think the easiest most efficient route will be used always buy a human, look it up.
Think I'm a care bear, look it up.
Think I fly in large groups, look it up.
Or I guess we can just pretend that tomorrow if this happened the next day wouldn't be filled with new fleet fits full of Se Bo II's and Se Link II's, and fleet doctrine wouldn't change to locking up 4-6 targets instead of 2 at a time.
'

u mad about something?

your posting seams like your mad someone is suggesting to change the way fighting is done away from the the now standard blob fighting we have now.



if you don't like this idea make your own to change the blob....

but i know the answer to that you don't want the blob to change its all you know how to do, and you all feel threatened by any change to the way fighting is done in YOUR world. no matter if its in the name of Fun.





All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#180 - 2012-01-11 19:07:23 UTC
On another note, does this effect the Passive targeting module?