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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

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Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
#321 - 2016-02-25 22:18:29 UTC
Koenig Yazria wrote:
Another day without dearly needed clarifications.

Well done.


When this thread started I had 16 accounts subbed. 48 hours later and I'm down to 8. Keep it up CCP!
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#322 - 2016-02-26 00:00:50 UTC
Catt Stevens wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
stg slate wrote:
ITT: People saying all these random programs don't give an unfair advantage and they are no big deal while loosing their **** about the idea of not being able to use them anymore.

You can't use EVEMon or EFT anymore. Let's see how you react.


You are a fool, if you actually read the dev blog you would understand that is not the case, but since you just want to throw rocks you choose to do so without any actual facts.

Don't worry you will catch up eventually.

It was an analogy you moron, I'm well aware CCP is not banning those programs.
Alundil
Rolled Out
#323 - 2016-02-26 00:14:48 UTC
So about those updates....or that clarity.....

I'm right behind you
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#324 - 2016-02-26 03:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Alundil wrote:
So about those updates....or that clarity.....

Should've just named this thread like the other one in general.

"Update regarding Overlays"

Kinete Jenius wrote:
Here I am running 12 on two machines with three total monitors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ4LByLY5T4

My current setup has 10 of the clients tiled on one machine.

OTA ticks are now around 6 minutes (5:50-6:10)
NMC ticks are now around 7 minutes
NCO ticks are also around 7 minutes

I cannot see the algos link but I think I know who you're talking about and he just uses drone assist with a primary DDD. It's almost trivial to do.


I could get fancy and use the OS features that focus on hover and other things to prevent even having to click through the clients. Windows 10 itself has some nifty features for doing such things. I don't have to arrange the cap bar to be visible as watchlist does that well enough for my activities.

Mmm drone assist. Definitely the way to go when coordinating DPS of several ships.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
SEVISGEN
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2016-02-26 04:25:22 UTC
any information at all would be great friends.....
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#326 - 2016-02-26 05:35:00 UTC
SEVISGEN wrote:
any information at all would be great friends.....

Be aware, what you ask for... http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/?_ga=1.216755862.1223706813.1445118733

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#327 - 2016-02-26 06:24:06 UTC
Uh. I launched a client and forgot about it, and left it under my browser. Then it was very odd to me that I could hear EVE sounds as my mouse moved around the screen. Apparently my mouse location was registering in the EVE client when it was hidden behind another window? Is this new? Am I going to be penalized for a false positive if I find myself in a similar scenario in the future?

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Shadoroth
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#328 - 2016-02-26 06:35:45 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Uh. I launched a client and forgot about it, and left it under my browser. Then it was very odd to me that I could hear EVE sounds as my mouse moved around the screen. Apparently my mouse location was registering in the EVE client when it was hidden behind another window? Is this new? Am I going to be penalized for a false positive if I find myself in a similar scenario in the future?


Don't lie. You were looking at dotlan you cheater. Enjoy your ban.
Ravana 729
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#329 - 2016-02-26 08:18:29 UTC
"the use of programs that provide in-game overlays (Mumble, Teamspeak) is not something we plan to actively police at this time."

This sentence makes me insane. Oh tell me again how you are not going to kill your player base by not doing something totally stupid. Looking forward to more obvious overlord lording over us press releases from communist central.
Gaia Gaea
Bloody Hellhound Reloaded
#330 - 2016-02-26 08:37:14 UTC
I can position the Windows as I prefer. I can be on the second monitor everything that is forbidden for people with one monitor. Now I'm officially in a more privileged position than those with just one monitor. Thank you for that raiseth me above filthy rogue with one monitor! Love you CCP!

P. S. Dear CCP when, for example, put white people in a more privileged position than blacks please notify me in advance. I'm not a Nazi, but I do have such friends. Maybe I will be able to tell them the glad news for them.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#331 - 2016-02-26 10:25:01 UTC
Well all i can say, is i will just unsub my last 2 accounts if this goes through/not clarified properly and bloody soon.

You *advertised* power of two and crap. I was up to 5 accounts, now two. Soon to be zero.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
tasman devil
Puritans
#332 - 2016-02-26 12:10:58 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Team Security comes with interesting news - as always!

This time we clarify the use of third party tools and overlays. Additionally we have an ISK Buyer Amnesty available under certain conditions!

Read more about these interesting news in the latest dev blog from Team Security Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

Useless graph is useless...

Also: this DEV post doesn't make heads or tail for me.

Just give us a friggin' LIST of what programs are ALLOWED and then end of story. Any third party who would like to get on that list should mail CCP and detail their tool (and also give sample .exe or something). Someone in CCP looks into it, gives a green light, END. OF. STORY.

Does this mean 1 workforce has to be installed to monitor it? Probably, but that 1 person is still cheaper than maintaining the code or include the missing functionalities into the game... FTHU

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Memphis Baas
#333 - 2016-02-26 13:30:33 UTC
Ravana 729 wrote:
"players doing something is not something we plan to actively police at this time."


I agree with Ravana; what is the point of making a statement like that? The "at this time" is a threat, like we should be worried about whatever we're doing. As if it's illegal, just not yet.

A statement like that just causes stress and frustration, it has no other purpose. Instead of phrasing things like threats, just state what's illegal now, and at the point in time when you decide to no longer allow teamspeak overlays, POST A BLOG THEN. Don't threaten us with a future thing that may not even happen.

Because, we're not shooting monuments in Jita and causing you to fire another 20% of your employees... FOR NOW.
Koenig Yazria
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#334 - 2016-02-26 14:34:24 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Ravana 729 wrote:
"players doing something is not something we plan to actively police at this time."


I agree with Ravana; what is the point of making a statement like that? The "at this time" is a threat, like we should be worried about whatever we're doing. As if it's illegal, just not yet.

A statement like that just causes stress and frustration, it has no other purpose. Instead of phrasing things like threats, just state what's illegal now, and at the point in time when you decide to no longer allow teamspeak overlays, POST A BLOG THEN. Don't threaten us with a future thing that may not even happen.

Because, we're not shooting monuments in Jita and causing you to fire another 20% of your employees... FOR NOW.



That threat (caused by poor wording I guess) makes me cringe. Imagine if you are forced to use Eve-Voice. Because, you know, third party software gives you an unfair advantage.

I say threat because I dare you to "just for jokes" say "I'm not going to bomb this plane , for now". I don't recommend doing it because like literally anyone will take it as a legit threat and not anything else.
PI DATA
#335 - 2016-02-26 14:45:18 UTC
we don't get a response here? as a customer, spending my money into your business for years, i feel dumped. React on your customers needs and don't ignore them would be a option -_-
CCP Grimmi
C C P
C C P Alliance
#336 - 2016-02-26 15:40:36 UTC
Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Here are our comments to the points raised. We think this should answer most of the questions in the thread.

First, nothing has changed. This is not an update to our rules and policies but rather a clarification.

Dart Aurel wrote:
There are 2 questions regarding windows switching policy points:
1. Is it prohibited to have 2 clients open and visible each on its own monitor?
2. I play EVE Online under Linux + Wine. Also I have tiled WM (xmonad) which allows to switch windows really fast (<50ms delay). Is this fair use or is it an exploit?

1. Surprise, we are not banning monitors. Assuming all EVE Clients are used as shipped by CCP then this is fine.

2. We do not see any issues with this. Switching between the EVE Client windows is part of regular and very welcome multiboxing. Being good at it is not a ban-able offense Big smile

Mail Lite wrote:
Just wanted to check with you about 'Pirates Little Helper'.

It is a programme were you CTRL-A CTRL+C in local and it brings it up out of game, you get little icons which show what militia they are in, whether they are known to be link toons or whether they USE link toons. It also shows how many of each corp/alliance or in local without trolling though them.

It gives you instant access to their KB, their last KB activity and what their 3 favourite ships are. It also gives the average number of pilots on all of their killmails (good for identifying gangs/bait)

Can you confirm this is something that is ok to use?

Applications/tools that do modify the client, do extract or try to interpret any information from within the clients window, do interact with the client (sending data/keystrokes to the client window), do inject anything into the clients memory or try to interact with the client in any way which cannot be achieved without using said applications/tools, are not allowed. As of today, the tool you are asking about, 'Pirates Little Helper', is a stand alone application which does not do any of the above to/with the EVE Client and we therefore do not see any reason to outlaw its usage.

Koz Katral wrote:
...

But what about eve preview? in theory it should be ok because it doesn't isolate any individual elements and just displays the entire client window.

...

Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.

Nikolai Agnon wrote:
...
Summarized question: Am I allowed to have specific EVE Client windows pinned to all of my virtual desktops in order to, for example, keep the EVE Clients with my scout Characters in my line of sight at any point in time and no matter on which virtual desktop I am?
...

Yes, absolutely.

Matthew Reddy wrote:
Can i use ISBoxer for window management as long as i do not broadcast?. Can i get a clear answer on this.

Yes, window management, of unmodified/untampered EVE Client windows, is allowed using ISBoxer or any other applications/tools.

Papa Django wrote:
...
A last question, is your detection methodology takes account about pvp or not ? I do not do pvp anymore. I do industry and trade. What kind of "unfair advantages" could i have in this case ?

All activity within the game world is subject to our detection methodology. With all players on a single server and in direct competition with each other even your trade and industry activities are PvP. Any type of automation would give you unfair advantages, for example.

Knitram Relik wrote:
"For your honesty and cooperation, which is sincerely appreciated, you will not be banned. Other actions will be determined on a case by case basis."

I doubt you'll get many people to tell on themselves for RMT unless they are 110% guaranteed no ban, negative account balance, etc. I figure they've already taken the risk and gotten away with it (or so they think). Why take a chance and tell on themselves unless they KNOW nothing bad will come of it?

We will not ban you if you come forward with useful and actionable information.

A Nony Mouse wrote:
How will you differentiate between operating systems which allow overlay like behaviour for task switching and overlay tools. Windows 10 for example lets you see multiple windows in large enough thumbnails to read and monitor just by pressing Windows + Tab.

We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action.

Rain6637 wrote:
Say I have eight screens next to each other in a 2x4 grid, and several of them are scouts in neighboring systems, or cloaked on every hole in a wormhole chain. I don't use any client overlays because they're all side by side and I can see them just fine. Am I breaking rules about unfair advantages?

We are not banning monitors. Assuming all EVE Clients are used as shipped by CCP then this is fine

Lucas Kell wrote:
CCP
As an example, this is something that is readily achievable with EVE-O preview. Would as setup like this be against the EULA?

Having many clients visible at the same time is not something we intend to ban.


Also, a lot of people have asked for lists of allowed applications/tools.

We cannot sanction 3rd party programs that we do not create or have any control over. Period. We may tolerate the use of applications or tools that enhance your enjoyment of the game. This is done at our discretion and only as long as no unfair advantages are gained by you or others by the use of said applications or tools.

Thank you for your attention...
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#337 - 2016-02-26 15:55:37 UTC
I don't have any questions but I do really appreciate the clarity in that mega-response to questions.
lost packet
Alpha Flight
#338 - 2016-02-26 15:59:24 UTC
CCP Grimmi wrote:
Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Here are our comments to the points raised. We think this should answer most of the questions in the thread.

First, nothing has changed. This is not an update to our rules and policies but rather a clarification.

Matthew Reddy wrote:
Can i use ISBoxer for window management as long as i do not broadcast?. Can i get a clear answer on this.

Yes, window management, of unmodified/untampered EVE Client windows, is allowed using ISBoxer or any other applications/tools.


Good enough for my concerns, thank you very much for providing this particular clarification. +1

Alpha Flight are recruiting pilots | Almost Broken are recruiting corporations
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#339 - 2016-02-26 16:03:35 UTC
Thanks ♥

♥
Tom Uchonela
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#340 - 2016-02-26 16:05:33 UTC
Thank you for the clarification CCP Grimmi!