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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

First post First post
Author
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#441 - 2016-02-28 04:42:58 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Daemun Khanid wrote:
You seem to be missing the point in regards to the simple phrase, "in their discretion." I don't think you quite grasp that it's not only extremely vague but it's intentionally that way. The eula has not changed, their discretion has. Hence... "their discretion."


You dont seem to grasp how discretion from one eula to another can mean different things. old eula discretion ment that you could do it. New eula discretion means you cannot. Its the same word but has a different meaning.


It means neither... It means they can decide on a case by case basis what to allow and what not to allow. You are seriously grasping at straws and I'm done wasting my time trying to talk any sense to the senseless. If you think you can interpret it however you want then go ahead. I'll look forward to your "I've been banned and it's not fair" post in GD.


Sorry if you feel that debunking your ideas are grasping at straws lol. It is as i said though. I really dont see any legal reasoning for me being banned though but you wait there and stalk for me maybe just maybe one day in thet far future(however long eve lasts) when I am done with eve i might show up there just to wave bye to my haters.

edit: it was not a case by case basis. No one was banned for overlays before this. Botting, broadcasting,scripts of that sort yes. But not overlays. Discretion meant there was a blanket acceptance or at least nonaction against it. When that discretion changed to a no regarding this subject then indeed the word discretion when pertaining to overlays had changed.

Perhaps you banned me twice and I have to pay double to find out wheher or not.
Perhaps you support this kind of activity and are only trying to bait me into committing myself or be off topic or God knows what.

Perhaps, like me, you were unfairly banned 3 times already, as in 3 strikes in a baseball game.


lol i like you, your cool, alright in my book.
Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#442 - 2016-02-28 05:28:16 UTC
Now see this" “We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications"
Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#443 - 2016-02-28 05:37:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:
Now see this" “We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications"
Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.

I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups.
They can do what they want.
They designed it like that.

Edit:
It's not the ground.
They may want details and explanations from you.
I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info.

If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a.
If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility.
It may be a complain.
If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out?
Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable?
Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other?
What about credit for art?
What about NDA?
Non-competition clauses?

I have more than 30 , less than 40 accounts.
I don't use them all at the same time.
However, players like to steal my rights and property.
It's not just in the forum.

What if the patent office or the lawyer I hire try to steal or rob me or kidnap me or commit breach of trust?
Do I have to trust them even if I can make a trillion percent more income in a more trustworthy place were I'd have a better relation or better rights?
Aren't rights related to law?
Just saying.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#444 - 2016-02-28 05:49:39 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Now see this" “We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications"
Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.

I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups.
They can do what they want.
They designed it like that.

Edit:
It's not the ground.
They may want details and explanations from you.
I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info.

If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a.
If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility.
It may be a complain.
If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out?
Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable?
Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other?
What about credit for art?
What about NDA?
Non-competition clauses?



The answer is probably 42
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#445 - 2016-02-28 05:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Now see this" “We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications"
Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.

I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups.
They can do what they want.
They designed it like that.

Edit:
It's not the ground.
They may want details and explanations from you.
I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info.

If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a.
If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility.
It may be a complain.
If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out?
Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable?
Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other?
What about credit for art?
What about NDA?
Non-competition clauses?



The answer is probably 42
I prefer a billion trillion.
It's more worth it to me and every one can get a better share.
I can't do much with $42, and I got engaged to my only future wife at 43.
I would rather die without marrying someone else even if that meant war.
I'm sure that is very common as in common law.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Death Reactor
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#446 - 2016-02-28 07:07:07 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
Now see this" “We do not endorse or condone the use of any third party applications or other software that modifies the client or otherwise confers an unfair benefit to players. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications"
Since multiboxing is explicity allowed then it is reasonable to assume that a player with 10 accounts will have a just advantage over a player with 1 account. It doesnt say ccp has some overly vague discretion that is solely their to determine what confers an unfair benefit and therefore having 10 fully capable accounts running appears to really not be a violation of eula. It is completly reasonable to expect 10 accounts vs one to be fair game according to eula and a overlay that affects windows and not the eve client appears to be not against eula.

I'm not gonna read the whole thing, I'm on screen keyboard, with USB external power as backup power, ups.
They can do what they want.
They designed it like that.

Edit:
It's not the ground.
They may want details and explanations from you.
I don't know you yet and if I do I didn't know until I get more info.

If they mention reason x is why b happened, it doesn't really matter because of a.
If you omit their concern it may be your responsibility.
It may be a complain.
If the complain is malicious or invalid how will they find out?
Where is your analysis on balance of powers and why is it viable?
Is your credit scientific, legal, educational or other?
What about credit for art?
What about NDA?
Non-competition clauses?



The answer is probably 42
I prefer a billion trillion.
It's more worth it to me and every one can get a better share.
I can't do much with $42, and I got engaged to my only future wife at 43.
I would rather die without marrying someone else even if that meant war.
I'm sure that is very common as in common law.


but 42 could be anything, it can even be a boat, we have always wanted a boat.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#447 - 2016-02-28 07:21:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzz Orti
Death Reactor wrote:
Buzz Orti wrote:
Death Reactor wrote:
...
The answer is probably 42
I prefer a billion trillion.
It's more worth it to me and every one can get a better share.
I can't do much with $42...

but 42 could be anything, it can even be a boat, we have always wanted a boat.

Is this the time it takes to make a profit or something related to the number of days (without taking into account the other factors like costs of money and so on)...

I use more accurate data for calculations of Rate of Return On Investments and Return On Investments.

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/overlays-isk-buyer-amnesty-and-account-security/?_ga=1.80099223.1276583007.1452636251
was the link you were looking for

Also, the links to 3rd party you referred are not the ones listed in the CCP 3rd party license.
I didn't know the op was CCP.
The reference to a pc website (personal computer) and 3rd party software / hardware companies are not the same 3rd party in the CCP licenses.
3rd party is a legal term referring to contract with more than 2 parties.
If it is only 2 parties, it is not a third party.
Architects are one party, user are a second party, OS are a third party in AI and expert systems, including DARPA and the military.

Companies developing software for windows OS make third party software.
3rd party software is not a third party as in a third party company.
Third party refers to an entity that is a company or people but not software.

Third party hardware is for computer and CPU + mobo designed to work together.
They have to work for the CPU and OS.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#448 - 2016-02-28 07:54:32 UTC
Ok, now this thread has gone from voicing at least somewhat serious concerns to completely silly quarreling.
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#449 - 2016-02-28 08:21:54 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Ok, now this thread has gone from voicing at least somewhat serious concerns to completely silly quarreling.

It is about overlays, or applications like mumble, team speak, browser, or third party app not for business and not controlling other accounts modules from another accounts (like a thief would do).
Also about ISK buyers amnesty.
And it is also about account security.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Random User83
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#450 - 2016-02-28 11:12:24 UTC
As a Mulitboxer I greatly appriciate the clarification regarding ISBoxer and Windows management.
I run 2 clients split 50/50 on one screen (healers) with isboxer just so there's no overlap (but each is controlled individually, and then 8-9 dps clients on another screen in stock normal windowed mode that i just click back and forth through.

It's nice to finally know that what i'm doing isn't going to get me banned.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer the questions we've been wondering about for a looooong time.

xoxo

random user 83

I'm a strong independant alt that don't need no main...

Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#451 - 2016-02-28 14:26:37 UTC
Random User83 wrote:
As a Mulitboxer I greatly appriciate the clarification regarding ISBoxer and Windows management.
I run 2 clients split 50/50 on one screen (healers) with isboxer just so there's no overlap (but each is controlled individually, and then 8-9 dps clients on another screen in stock normal windowed mode that i just click back and forth through.

It's nice to finally know that what i'm doing isn't going to get me banned.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer the questions we've been wondering about for a looooong time.

xoxo

random user 83

Bonus round for the user.
I read ISBoxer could be used if done properly and within limited parameters allowed by the EULA or new deals contracts terms.
Except I need more RAM for around $5 to $10, idk.

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Mishra San
#452 - 2016-02-28 14:49:14 UTC
Cynthia Asanari wrote:
I've recently been drawing eve ship commissions for PLEX . is this legit? I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm just double checking anyway.
Something like this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/EBcTNPa

I figured i had to ask since it's not really an in-game item


Late to the party and kinda off topic, but that is an amazing picture =).

Likes!
Buzz Orti
State War Academy
Caldari State
#453 - 2016-02-28 15:06:05 UTC
Mishra San wrote:
Cynthia Asanari wrote:
I've recently been drawing eve ship commissions for PLEX . is this legit? I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm just double checking anyway.
Something like this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/EBcTNPa

I figured i had to ask since it's not really an in-game item


Late to the party and kinda off topic, but that is an amazing picture =).

Likes!

Is this like a 3rd party accounting system to keep track of brokers commissions on trades of services or products security?

Builds ship in empty Quafe bottle.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#454 - 2016-02-29 06:06:12 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Mishra San wrote:
Cynthia Asanari wrote:
I've recently been drawing eve ship commissions for PLEX . is this legit? I'm pretty sure it is, but I'm just double checking anyway.
Something like this.
http://imgur.com/gallery/EBcTNPa

I figured i had to ask since it's not really an in-game item


Late to the party and kinda off topic, but that is an amazing picture =).

Likes!

Is this like a 3rd party accounting system to keep track of brokers commissions on trades of services or products security?

Ah yes, a value added tax on all transactions which have out-of-game components.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Random User83
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#455 - 2016-02-29 08:17:13 UTC
Buzz Orti wrote:
Random User83 wrote:
As a Mulitboxer I greatly appriciate the clarification regarding ISBoxer and Windows management.
I run 2 clients split 50/50 on one screen (healers) with isboxer just so there's no overlap (but each is controlled individually, and then 8-9 dps clients on another screen in stock normal windowed mode that i just click back and forth through.

It's nice to finally know that what i'm doing isn't going to get me banned.

Thankyou for taking the time to answer the questions we've been wondering about for a looooong time.

xoxo

random user 83

Bonus round for the user.
I read ISBoxer could be used if done properly and within limited parameters allowed by the EULA or new deals contracts terms.
Except I need more RAM for around $5 to $10, idk.



i run an
i5-2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz
2x evga GTX970s in SLI
32gb gskill 1866
asrock ext4 gen3 (z67?68?)
2 x 24 inch 1080p acer cheapo monitors
and a evga P2 1000w powersupply

running 11 clients 2 in isboxer on high and 9 in windowed mode DDD on high slaves on medium graphics i've never even come close to maxing out ram. I could get away with using 16gb and still have room. right now the CPU is the bottleneck. it peaks out at 100% usage when i do things like warp wing through a gate all at the same time, but running VG's it usually sits at about 65-75% The SLI 970s are overkill too. Cooling is a must upgrade the stock cpu fan, toss it in the trash. Grab a coolermaster 212 or something for 30 bucks. My video cards usually sit around 68 degrees (C) the cpu at 70ish the mobo at 45-50. but it's kinda noisy with all the fans going so if that bugs you go water. I just use a good headset.

at system idle (ie websurfing, the vid cards usually sit about 40* and the fans spin down to maybe 200rpm and i've got the cpu set to level 0 in the bios so it doesn't kick in till about 45* but it's nice not having to worry about memory if you've got 40 tabs in chrome open and netflix streaming in the other window.

I'm a strong independant alt that don't need no main...

Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#456 - 2016-02-29 22:08:14 UTC
Random User83 wrote:
i run an
i5-2500k oc'd to 4.5ghz
2x evga GTX970s in SLI
32gb gskill 1866
asrock ext4 gen3 (z67?68?)
2 x 24 inch 1080p acer cheapo monitors
and a evga P2 1000w powersupply

running 11 clients 2 in isboxer on high and 9 in windowed mode DDD on high slaves on medium graphics i've never even come close to maxing out ram. I could get away with using 16gb and still have room. right now the CPU is the bottleneck. it peaks out at 100% usage when i do things like warp wing through a gate all at the same time, but running VG's it usually sits at about 65-75% The SLI 970s are overkill too. Cooling is a must upgrade the stock cpu fan, toss it in the trash. Grab a coolermaster 212 or something for 30 bucks. My video cards usually sit around 68 degrees (C) the cpu at 70ish the mobo at 45-50. but it's kinda noisy with all the fans going so if that bugs you go water. I just use a good headset.

at system idle (ie websurfing, the vid cards usually sit about 40* and the fans spin down to maybe 200rpm and i've got the cpu set to level 0 in the bios so it doesn't kick in till about 45* but it's nice not having to worry about memory if you've got 40 tabs in chrome open and netflix streaming in the other window.

Wow I practically run on potatos compared to other boxers.

My secondary machine
e7200 at 2.53 ghz (was OCed so it's rocking a CM hyper 212+ HS)
HD5770 1 GB
8 gb ddr3 at 1066 because the bios cant set TRFC high enough to run at 1333 which is odd because I can run a pair of el cheapo crucial 2 gig sticks at 1333 fine.
CX430M PSU

This machine can run up to 10 clients (lowest settings) before it becomes useless to do things. Undocking for the first time can be a bit slow and if there's a lot of fireworks (yes fireworks) flying around the FPS does drop badly. When boxing in PVP or VGs I only run 1-2 clients on this machine. Usually booster and/or scout/ore/hacker.

Primary
FX6300 at 4.5 ghz with a CM hyper 212+ evo HS
GTX 660 2gb
16 GB ram
1920x1200 and 1920x1080 monitors
corsair tx650 v2.something

When doing active stuff I usually run 10 clients on this machine. For some reason netflix gets a little wonky when skipping around in a HD movie. I don't experience that issue when playing a DVD directly. Might be because I tend to have a lot of tabs open on firefox at the same time.

Since the clients are all zoomed out and on low settings the only thing that hits 100% is the CPU and only during certain actions (like undocking or logging in all clients at the same time).

The CPU runs so cool I cannot even hear the HS on it. It also helps that I have a killer stereo setup on my primary.



So what I"m getting from this thread is that CCP doesn't want people using videofx with click through.

Tiling windows to see the overview is fine but using videofx to the same thing isn't?


Quote:
We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action.
This is the part that worries me. I've had plenty of people over the years tell me that what I am doing in game wasn't possible and I must be cheating (including eve). I've been banned from a variety of FPS servers over the last 2 decades of online game play for that reason (headphones and knowledge of the game/maps). So basically I'm worried about what baseline they are using to determine what is or isn't possible with the stock eve window options.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#457 - 2016-03-01 02:24:17 UTC
This is a concern for me also. Not so much for eve since i am now only playing 2 accounts, and my dreams of multiboxing a 5 strong cap fleet was crushed with a WH eviction.

But in the past I have been accused of cheating in FPS, just because i had a full 3d sound setup and could easily outplay everyone that didn't.

Eve is no differnent. Many monitors and perfectly legal game play is undifferentiated from partial screens or extra overlays. There is no way outside spyware (that woudn't work on Linux anyway) to tell these cases apart.

And what i hate even more is the ever shifting goal posts. I just don't trust that your not just going to come out and ban multiboxing. I am in NZ, we just have to play with extra accounts or give up and go goons or PL. And i don't want to be a big alliance jockey.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Sky Marshal
Core Industry.
Fraternity.
#458 - 2016-03-01 11:04:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky Marshal
Just a question even if the answer is pretty obvious :

Because of this devblog, I just looked in eBay to check the situation, and I found multiple PLEX sellers who activate the item ingame to the buyer, so it is clearly player to player.

Between the item itself and the PLEX codes who can be bought from official resellers, I wonder if CCP can really track it and so stop it, or if this ISK-Proxy selling stuff is tolerated as PLEX « is a completely legal option for turning your real life cash into precious space bucks. »
lost packet
Alpha Flight
Sev3rance
#459 - 2016-03-08 13:13:21 UTC
I thought EVE was perceived as a game played by technically adept individuals. At least now this thread provides a source we can refer people to in order to prove that simply isn't the case. Shocked
JFKen Imperia
Beyond Frontier
Pandemic Horde
#460 - 2016-03-14 17:22:33 UTC
Carebears sitting on B in wallet thread Lol