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Dev blog: Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security

First post First post
Author
woooooooooooo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-02-23 17:22:39 UTC
it was awesome DEV-BLOG about account security.
but, i recommend adding EVE Online SSO feature is safe at 'same username' things. for make rock solid, crystal clear.

Perry Swift
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-02-23 17:24:55 UTC
what about eve-o?
Do you really want people with a single monitor to be in an disadvantage?
ccplease
Bug Shayiskhun
Upstair Holdings Inc.
#23 - 2016-02-23 17:26:39 UTC
Effective immediately, we are also offering amnesty for ISK buyers who come clean by emailing security@ccpgames.com with actionable evidence of people selling ISK. Such information should include:

What you bought
When you bought it
From whom you bought it
Proof of purchase – we’ll correlate with our own in-game logs. Usually your proof of purchase or receipt will include all of the 3 items above.
For your honesty and cooperation, which is sincerely appreciated, you will not be banned. Other actions will be determined on a case by case basis.

We want to point out that this is not intended to encourage anyone to go and buy ISK – if you have already then you can come forward with actionable information and receive amnesty as described above. Repeat offenders who have previously utilized the amnesty program will of course not be viewed in such a positive light.

We also want to draw attention to the “PLEX for Snitches” program which permits us to reward players with PLEX if they send us reliable and actionable information about security related issues. For more details on this please go here.




This is a joke! if you really are going to let people get away with it just by admitting it then wtf are you doing as a company?

IF You do RMT you deserve to get banned and have your wallet negatived full stop! none of this amnesty BS, i spend my hard money on plex to support you as a company and to to help myself out with isk or would you raver me go and purchase it off a RMT? i highly doudt you would want me to do that and you want my IRL money ccp so sort your stuff out!
JonnyPew
Doomheim
#24 - 2016-02-23 17:27:03 UTC
"So the combination is... one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!" - Dark Helmet

I never not think of this quote when reading about account security.

EVE Online video content creator

http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew

Uppsy Daisy
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-02-23 17:31:33 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
Team Security comes with interesting news - as always!

This time we clarify the use of third party tools and overlays. Additionally we have an ISK Buyer Amnesty available under certain conditions!

Read more about these interesting news in the latest dev blog from Team Security Overlays, ISK Buyer Amnesty and Account Security


Really great work on eliminating RMT!!

But the rest of this blog is just so vague! Even the 'useful summaries' are not useful.

Quote:
e.g. ​​​In short: Do NOT use any tools/applications/modifications which either modify the client in any way OR provide you any kind of unfair benefit/advantage.


What is an unfair benefit/advantage?
Is using EFT or PYFA an unfair benefit/advantage?
Is using a spreadsheet to help with industry calculations an unfair benefit/advantage?
Is using a more tailored app like Eve Mentat or ISK per hour an unfair benefit/advantage?
This really needs clarifying properly!

Quote:
We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.
AS LONG AS it’s fair to everybody - neither you nor anybody else gets any unfair advantage – we are fine with it.


Again, what is unfair benefit/advantage?
What applications are tolerated and what are not?
There are some very advanced applications that use the CREST API to make industry much more viable to their users - in fact I would say that if you don't use a tool, doing manufacturing profitably is very difficult. They certainly give benefits and advantages but are they fair?

CCP please help me understand.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#26 - 2016-02-23 17:31:47 UTC
Perry Swift wrote:
what about eve-o?
Do you really want people with a single monitor to be in an disadvantage?
ccplease



i'm not sure thats an overlay. iirc that and isboxer use window management, which is not the same thing.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

ChYph3r
Omni Defense Intelligence Network
Hardly Competent
#27 - 2016-02-23 17:31:50 UTC
Quote:
Let us start with everybody’s favorite reading material, the EULA:

6.B. Selling Items and Objects

“You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions, newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.”


This is pretty clear however it does not contain anything about PLEX codes. I have seen many a Twitch broadcaster use PLEX codes on give always to its subscribers. However it seems to be a gray area that they still use to avoid getting banned for RMT of PLEX.

Can I get a clarification on this?

Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r  on Twitter

Lena Arzi
Sarmatia
#28 - 2016-02-23 17:36:43 UTC
Would it be possible to clarify:

  • Is OnTopReplica allowed under these conditions?
  • Is software reading the chat logs saved automatically by the client allowed under this policy?
Tom Uchonela
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2016-02-23 17:42:52 UTC
Okay, so overlays from other eve instances inside one instance are now a no-no, because it allows access to too much intel.

I'm not asking this to be pedantic, I actually want to get a clear idea of where the line is being drawn. Is it getting more information simultaneously than other players, or is it getting that information in the display of a single eve instance?



Can we get clarification on the use of third-party software and/or windows 10 functionality to allow simultaneous view of multiple eve clients at the same time, provided there is no information included from one instance of eve inside another?

In other words, if I use a third-party program or windows 10 to have 4 instances of eve displayed on my main monitor and a single on a second monitor, allowing me to view 5 instances simultaneously, but each instance has no information from another instance inside its respective window, is this cool?

Alternatively, if I use no third-party programs, but have a 4K monitor and an extra wide monitor, and use these to display 4 and 2 instances on each monitor respectively (by resizing the EVE windows), is this okay? Functionally, i'm actually getting 1 more eve instance visible than under the third-party option, but it does require more expensive hardware.


Please clarify. Thanks!
CCP Peligro
Doomheim
#30 - 2016-02-23 17:46:37 UTC
Thanks for all your feedback and criticism so far! Please keep it coming, we're watching this thread and will post replies to serious questions in the near future.

CCP Peligro - Team Security

Atomic Child
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2016-02-23 17:46:41 UTC
Koz Katral wrote:
So isboxer is now 100% banned because it allows you to only reveal certain elements of the eve client.

But what about eve preview? in theory it should be ok because it doesn't isolate any individual elements and just displays the entire client window.

As usual this is ridiculously vague.

Classic CCP. I doubt anyone will know until the ban wave hits and hundreds of legit customers are just cut out of the loop.

If you ban preview, it will definitely be in up there on the list of 'dumbest things CCP has ever done'



didn't they say that isboxer is screen management tool?

also it overlay this overlay that - so what is the f.... overlay in CCP terms?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/overlay

this?
Akrasjel Lanate
Lanate Industries
#32 - 2016-02-23 17:47:46 UTC
CCP Peligro wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Quote:
“<…Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.”


Im bad at this but does this means monetization of videos is not allowed ?


This is covered under the following policy:
https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/monetization-of-videos-and-streaming-policy/

Speaking of which, we recently had a bunch of policies translated and updated on the website, check it out:
https://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/

Cheers!


Thanks

PS. None translated in to my language... not that i need it

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Grookshank
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#33 - 2016-02-23 17:52:17 UTC
Repeating what others asked: Can you please clarify the legality of software like on top replica and eve-o-preview?

Linking for reference: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5201457#post5201457

If you forbid those, what is about having multiple monitors?
Niraia
Starcakes
Cynosural Field Theory.
#34 - 2016-02-23 17:52:20 UTC
"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules."

Could you please let me know if using the tool 'EVE Online previewer' (https://bitbucket.org/ulph/eve-o-preview-git) which CCP FoxFour contributed to constitutes violation of this rule?

Here is a screenshot of how I use it.

The tool uses live taskbar previews, a Windows feature that exists in 7 onwards, which allows you to preview the contents of a window by hovering your cursor over it in the taskbar. What you see on my left monitor are slightly bigger copies of the images generated by the operating system.

I see this as no different to moving a client to my second monitor and making it really small. It's essentially doing the exact same thing as the Windows taskbar but with larger previews. The overlay does not forward mouse actions to the previewed clients; clicking a preview only switches focus to that client.


That aside, consider your example of using an overlay to display an overview from another client on top of another. This isn't something I do, but is it really much different to running two clients with two monitors? I think you're in very weird territory, trying to limit the way we view clients.

Gibatci Aideron
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2016-02-23 17:52:43 UTC
Quote:
AS LONG AS it’s fair to everybody - neither you nor anybody else gets any unfair advantage – we are fine with it.


This is far too wide to be considered an enforceable policy. Under this policy it's easy to argue that applications like siggy and tripwire are not allowed, because they give an advantage of being able to see a map of all systems while people that don't use it won't be able to. You're also basically saying "get a second monitor" if you want to be able to look at 2 clients at the same time. We're playing eve, a game where multi-boxing is allowed and encouraged, but unless you have 2 monitors you're only allowed to look at one at a time? I'm hoping you'll clarify "unfair advantage" and rethink the overlay decision. Needed to purchase a second monitor to look at more then 1 client at the same time is ridiculous.
Asinae Antaelis
#36 - 2016-02-23 17:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Asinae Antaelis
Dart Aurel wrote:
There are 2 questions regarding windows switching policy points:
1. Is it prohibited to have 2 clients open and visible each on its own monitor?

Not that it should be prohibited, but the client should be designed to render only the (last) active one at least if it detects multiple clients running on the same computer!

Quote:
However, if any third party application or other software is used to gain any unfair advantage, or for purposes beyond its intended use, or if the application or other software violates other parts of the EULA, we may fully enforce our rights to prohibit such use, including player bans.

We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules. It changes the way the game is played and grants the player unfair advantages over other players. For example, having overviews from other EVE clients as overlays on one EVE client would allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows. Similarly, overlays using elements from a second or multiple other EVE clients to allow the player to activate modules etc.0-> on those other game instances without switching to the other<- client windows are clearly in violation of our rules.

This mean that multi screen hasn't been taken into account by design
Robnik Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-02-23 17:58:41 UTC
You guys need to bite the bullet and come up with a 3rd party whitelist. By the letter of the law you've written here, something like "EVE-O Preview" is ban-worthy but I find it completely impossible to believe that is actually your intention. Your policies about this stuff are usually pretty reasonable but I am pretty shocked at this one, given that it offers inferior functionality to just having a bunch of monitors and a nice video card. Is it CCP's intention to reward RL-wealthy people who can afford expensive rigs and many monitors by nerfing us more casual folks who already are dedicating our gaming budgets to just paying for account subs rather than expensive hardware? I love this game, I'm on a shoestring student budget and I dedicate all of my gaming budget for three monthly subscriptions right now. If you're telling me to go **** myself for only having one monitor then I've got to consider cancelling my other subs. Honestly this bit of your policy update just seems completely out-of-touch with your playerbase.
Raksan Ibid
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2016-02-23 17:59:25 UTC
I wish you would just please come out and make rulings on specific software, such as ISBoxer, EVE-O Preview, Pirate's Little Helper, multi-monitors, etc. Leaving it up to us to guess which if any of these programs violate the guidelines with the penalty for guessing wrong being permaban is not fair.

With some specific examples of popular software ruled on, then future software that's materially similar would be much easier for us to decide if it's safe to use. No need to play whack-a-mole on every piece of software that comes up, just say something specific about popular ones in use now that are problematic or a-okay.
Koenig Yazria
Adversity.
Psychotic Tendencies.
#39 - 2016-02-23 18:03:25 UTC
Niraia wrote:
"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules."

Could you please let me know if using the tool 'EVE Online previewer' (https://bitbucket.org/ulph/eve-o-preview-git) which CCP FoxFour contributed to constitutes violation of this rule?

Here is a screenshot of how I use it.

The tool uses live taskbar previews, a Windows feature that exists in 7 onwards, which allows you to preview the contents of a window by hovering your cursor over it in the taskbar. What you see on my left monitor are slightly bigger copies of the images generated by the operating system.

I see this as no different to moving a client to my second monitor and making it really small. It's essentially doing the exact same thing as the Windows taskbar but with larger previews. The overlay does not forward mouse actions to the previewed clients; clicking a preview only switches focus to that client.


That aside, consider your example of using an overlay to display an overview from another client on top of another. This isn't something I do, but is it really much different to running two clients with two monitors? I think you're in very weird territory, trying to limit the way we view clients.



Same for isBoxer windows management where one can view smaller versions of multiple clients on one screen while having the "real client" on another screen.

I'm not a win10 user, but AFAIK it does the same, out of the box.

Literally the same as having multiple monitors.




Gibatci Aideron wrote:
Quote:
AS LONG AS it’s fair to everybody - neither you nor anybody else gets any unfair advantage – we are fine with it.


This is far too wide to be considered an enforceable policy. Under this policy it's easy to argue that applications like siggy and tripwire are not allowed, because they give an advantage of being able to see a map of all systems while people that don't use it won't be able to. You're also basically saying "get a second monitor" if you want to be able to look at 2 clients at the same time. We're playing eve, a game where multi-boxing is allowed and encouraged, but unless you have 2 monitors you're only allowed to look at one at a time? I'm hoping you'll clarify "unfair advantage" and rethink the overlay decision. Needed to purchase a second monitor to look at more then 1 client at the same time is ridiculous.


This is so vague, its pretty hilarious. Like most support stuff in Eve could fall under that, Eve-appraisal, Dotlan, and a long etc.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-02-23 18:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Niraia wrote:
"We do consider overlays using elements of a second or multiple other EVE clients to be against the rules."

Could you please let me know if using the tool 'EVE Online previewer' (https://bitbucket.org/ulph/eve-o-preview-git) which CCP FoxFour contributed to constitutes violation of this rule?

Here is a screenshot of how I use it.

The tool uses live taskbar previews, a Windows feature that exists in 7 onwards, which allows you to preview the contents of a window by hovering your cursor over it in the taskbar. What you see on my left monitor are slightly bigger copies of the images generated by the operating system.

I see this as no different to moving a client to my second monitor and making it really small. It's essentially doing the exact same thing as the Windows taskbar but with larger previews. The overlay does not forward mouse actions to the previewed clients; clicking a preview only switches focus to that client.


That aside, consider your example of using an overlay to display an overview from another client on top of another. This isn't something I do, but is it really much different to running two clients with two monitors? I think you're in very weird territory, trying to limit the way we view clients.



This.

Please clarify ASAP.

What does this tool do, which I cannot do with my second or third monitors?

Are you really wanting to go there, to put the boot into people without many many screens whilst encouraging alt proliferation....say it ain't so!


And your own devs use it and previously confirmed all was well!