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this. please retain old tracking camera .

How about this idea for d-scan? You tap ‘C’, and then click on anything you want to keep track of, be it in-space brackets or on the overview. Your ship remains centred and the camera aligns the target with a user-definable position on screen. If you tap ‘C’ again, you no longer track clicked targets — it works like a toggle so you don't have to press a bunch of keys every time you want to track something. It's just point and click.. Or you just turn the camera, which then stays where you point it and doesn't float around a bunch.

From there, if you want to scan something, you scan it. If you want to fly towards it, you double click near it. If you want to do anything that relies on the relative positioning of your ship and someone else, both of you are readily available on-screen and your normal flight controls act as you would expect them to. No unnecessary special-case functionality that entangles camera with scanning with navigation with anything. Each is its own thing and works efficiently on its own. If you want to implement a d-scan hot key then that's fine, but it has exactly zero relevance to how the camera needs to work.

I know it can be done, because it's already in the game and there's no reason to remove it.

Once you've implemented that, you need to look at implementing the following critical components, the lack of which should be considered showstopping bugs if some numbskull accidentally lets the unfinished build go live:
• Keeping the ship centred at all times.
• Adjusting the tracking point, as mentioned above.
• Tracking toggle.
• Look toggle.
• No camera movement without input while looking.
• Linear zoom.
• Linear (and equal on every axis) orbiting speed.
• Instant reset
• RClick-slewing with snap-back
• Manual R+L-Drag zoom and FOV adjustment
• Tactical overlay setting persistence



How about a setting to remove all inertia, irrespective and unconnected with camera speed? How about letting camera speed act equally on both axes? How about making the camera movement entirely linear, both in rotation and zoom?

I get that you want to implement these neat features that the refactoring has allowed, but realise that they are at best of tertiary (and most likely of zero) importance compared to making a camera that gives the player full control of his view on space. If you really want to have fun with those new features, put in settings for X, Y, and Z response curves similar to what you see in more serious sims (they generally do it for control input, but this is EVE and the camera is the controller in question — coincidentally, that's also why you cannot **** it up and why people are screaming at you at the moment).

Emphasis mine.

This is so obviously not the case. The very first thing I noticed is the delayed, line-by-line output of the scan results. The results are most certainly not populated instantly. I hate to bring this up because it sounds like nit-picking, but I think most here would agree that the delayed output effect serves absolutely no practical purpose.

D-Scan is an intel tool. We use it specifically because we need information as fast as possible. Yet once again, this is an example of "form over function". We don't need d-scan to be pretty. We need it to be useful. This delay effect needs to go, plain and simple.

Sorry about that, I should have worded that differently. I meant that the list BEGINS to populate instantly. This is quicker than in the old camera because you don't have to wait for the camera to move first before it populates.

CCP Turtlepower

Yeah, unrelated to the whole camera issue, this speaks to an ongoing theme that has plagued EVE's UI changes for quite some time now.

It's suffering more and more from hollywood:itis. I can fully understand that UI artists like to really go hog wild with the fancy effects, since they look cool and it's not something you get to do all that often… but there's a reason for that: they make the UI objectively worse. A functional UI is restrained and therefore inherently incompatible with the flashy fun stuff that is fun to make.

The problem is that the players want something fast, functional, and effective. As much as the devs might want to get away from the perception of Excel in Space, that need is the first one that has to be met and anything that gets in the way of it would have to have a spectacularly good reason to be allowed to stick around. Animations and presentation-style “appear”-effects delay and remove precision from time-critical information. Save them for Powerpoint in Space, if and when you get a reason to create that game, but leave them out of EVE.

Top tip for UI designer reflection and insight: if at any time you create some visual effect that is applied to the UI, first imagine how you would react if that effect was applied to the programs and tools you use to design the effect. Imagine if the select tool in Photoshop had to perform a corner-to-corner wipe and flash-fade in every time you clicked it before you were allowed to actually select anything; and that the selection suffered from input lag — not because you're working on a 32GB file, but because of the mandatory animations that play while you drag that box across the screen. It looks cool, but it only serves to make the tool awful. You should have no trouble imagining the frustration this would generate and the slowly rising wish to punch the programmer in the mouth. Now realise that by creating such a UI effect, you are the one who's generating that frustration and who are thus the target for said mouth-punching fantasies.

I've just tested new D-Scan thing.

Now i'm confused, cause i very much like the way the camera moves, its speed and the instant result.
Though, ... i feel disturb by the 'non aligned' axe that makes [My Camera]-->[My Ship]-->[Object_to_D-Scan] even though i do know that my camera is D-Scanning the exact object i clicked while pressing.

Probably a habit to re-learn.
And i'm ok with that.

But 1:
The fact that it was drawing an axe between camera / ship / object to DScan was a point of reference as of WHERE you would DScan exactly @ 5 degrees and FROM where as well (your ship), for some situations, it might be harder to be sure what we are DScaningwithout this point of reference.
But 2 :
And to add something else as mentioned below my response, given that Eve needs a lot of windows opened to have lots of sort of informations, fleet window, drones, targts, selected items, watchlist, chat, autopilot, local, overview, DScan window, Probe window, etc, etc, that non-aligned thinggy can sometimes put one's ship behind those windows, if he choose not to zoom out much.

About a moving object that's ok, once you've done your command and you don't touch camera position anymore, it follows the object till it goes out of grid. Enough to be able to see where the object went.

Probably a habit to re-learn, but i find it harder to re-learn than the basic D-Scan.

BUT1 :
Constantly having to press the shortcut + the object is something more to care about in a middle of a fight.
Not mentionning all the other above "BUT" that applies here as well. :/
BUT2 :
Awareness of the ennemy position, the vector they have, their positiong is also given by that tracking camera (along with tactical, but not only).

A simple mode on/off would be so much easier, but we would lose that instant result that i really like.
Hard to decide if it's better or not...

Is it possible for you to merge a toggle mode on / off and this shortcut + click awsomeness ?

[Edit] One technical important issue while using the command shortcut + click while ship is moving, when "Ship speed offset" is checked once you've done your DScan, then want your camera to reposition manually, camera goes all crazy like it can't stand its position.
It gives the impression that i can't control my camera, it does what it wants, pretty disturbing. :(

For now, with new DScan thing added to the new camera, it's kinda "ok" when all its options are un-checked, which is making me wonder, why the hell did you do all that. :/
Could be very cool for some dedicated cameraman trying to make a video out of a fight in cloaky ship or something, but in PvP, specially fast-paste ones in frigs, with all the options on, that's just unplayable. :(

Turtlepower - I don't understand why we can't just have the tracking functionality like in the old camera. Your Dscan fix sounds cool and all, but ultimate the functionality we're use to have is lacking and I would love to see it come back into this camera.

There are some inertia issues that need fixing, scrolling bugs and as other have pointed out the speed offset it putting ships right off the screen.

For me to use this as a full time play feature, it needs that tracking camera toggle. If you remove the old camera from in game in a months time... I won't be undocking.. it will literally just be skill queue online until my accounts expire.

Sadly I have nothing positive to say about the new camera. The rubberbanding camera zoom (or whatever it is called) and sluggish movement are terrible. I much prefer the old sharp and quick movement. Actually the new camera feels like something I could expect from a bad console port. It is also not possible to zoom as far out as before. You have also removed the ability to right-click in space to move the camera around. These are the major issues I could think of right now. I hope you decide to keep all features of the old camera as this new camera makes playing the game very annoying and frustrating.

You've completely missed the point. The old tracking camera was good for far more than dscan.

Scouting structures? Warping to the location and clicking the structure on overview automatically put it in your field of view.

In combat? Clicking something on your overview immediately shifted your view to it.

Need to sort of align to something but don't want to run into it because you're cloaked? Click it, and once your camera points at it double-click near it and you've got an angled approach that will take you close without risking a direct hit.

Your userbase WANTS TO KEEP WHAT WE HAVE. We don't like the new thing you made. We're sorry, I know it was a lot of work and you're proud of it and it's going to make for some neat visuals, but you're breaking functionality and we're not happy with it. The absolute best thing you can do here is say "We understand, we'll maintain the tracking camera as a mode of the new camera system and implement it on TQ for your testing before we remove your ability to turn off the new camera"