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[February] Force Auxiliary Skills

First post First post
Author
Equinox Daedalus
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#81 - 2016-02-08 20:10:43 UTC
When are you announcing the new carrier bonus's.

This is pretty much the more important of anything else.
If i don't want to spend money on skill books that i don't need, i need to know WHAT are the new bonuses for that carriers and what is going to used for in correlation with the rest of the capital/drone skills as well.

I wish you would at least let us know what you have planned for the carrier role/bonus's so we can plan properly.
Memphis Baas
#82 - 2016-02-08 20:14:35 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Any character with Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration, a Carrier and Force Auxiliary skill (of the same race) injected when the citadels expansion launches, will have the racial carrier skillpoints refunded as unallocated skillpoints.


Wait a second, you have NOT fully specified what will be done for EACH choice that we have: to fly carrier, or to fly faux.

To continue to fly carriers:

- Will carriers use Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration? Triage modules?
- Fighters skill?
- Capital Remote Armor, Shield, Energy Transfer?

It sounds like you want to switch the triage and remote repair modules to apply to fauxes, and so you are probably planning on requiring another skill and module for carrier siege mode. NOT triage.

It's ok if the plans for carriers haven't been finalized yet, as long as you confirm that people who refuse the Force Auxiliary skill, and thus keep their Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration and associated skills, will have these skills switched over to whatever the carriers will use once THAT change goes through.

So please clarify:

- what skills will be required to fly carriers
- what skills will be switched to the carrier versions, specifically if triage still applies

- what skills will be required to fly force auxiliaries
- and you've already mentioned that fauxes will use the triage skill.


Anthar Thebess
#83 - 2016-02-08 20:14:44 UTC
Celeste Benal wrote:
If you aren't going to use those fighter skills anymore, grab some extractors and pull those SP for sale to recoup your FAX skillbook cost.

Why?
I need to pay for every thing.

CCP for very long time uphold rule : If you can fly it now ...
You will find multiple posts from CCP employees stating this, you will find this in dev blogs.

Now CCP changed this while changing at the same time important, time consuming and expensive line of ships.

Problem is that you will be no longer capable of doing the same stuff like before after this changes.
In some cases this is very big change.
chris elliot
Wildcard.
#84 - 2016-02-08 20:15:23 UTC
How are we supposed to know which fax book to buy and inject when you haven't released the stats on the fax machines themselves... You guys have been half-arsing this stuff.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#85 - 2016-02-08 20:24:19 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
If you're sitting in a mothership, you can't dock to inject the FAX skill (unless you get out of your space-coffin). So no worries.

dont need to dock to inject skills....
Anthar Thebess
#86 - 2016-02-08 20:24:33 UTC
chris elliot wrote:
How are we supposed to know which fax book to buy and inject when you haven't released the stats on the fax machines themselves... You guys have been half-arsing this stuff.

Fax skills is one thing, all capital modules stats is another.
Add new fighter to this, and complete stats of citadels.
How we can decide what ships we will be needing if we don't know statistics of the structures they are going to be killing.
Mashie Saldana
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#87 - 2016-02-08 20:29:22 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

...


Good idea :) +1
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#88 - 2016-02-08 20:31:36 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Celeste Benal wrote:
If you aren't going to use those fighter skills anymore, grab some extractors and pull those SP for sale to recoup your FAX skillbook cost.

Why?
I need to pay for every thing.

CCP for very long time uphold rule : If you can fly it now ...
You will find multiple posts from CCP employees stating this, you will find this in dev blogs.

Now CCP changed this while changing at the same time important, time consuming and expensive line of ships.

Problem is that you will be no longer capable of doing the same stuff like before after this changes.
In some cases this is very big change.


It's you can fly what you could fly, not you can do what you could.

You will still be able to fly a carrier unless you decide not to. There are 0 ship that you could fly that you will no longer be able to unless you decide to switch your SP via refund to something else and at that point, YOU made the decision to change so CCP's rule of "If you can fly it before you will after" is not broken.
Bombay Boozer
Care for Kids
#89 - 2016-02-08 20:33:14 UTC
HeyGuys!
This sounds absolutely ********
hey I spent 2bn isk on 4 carrier skills to triage, now please spend more isk to keep that ability xdxdxdxd great stuff boys, great stuff
Panther X
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#90 - 2016-02-08 20:36:58 UTC
So in addition to having racial carriers erased, at their cost of each race, which we dont get reimbursed for, we have to shell out the spacebux just to fly the ships we have already been flying (triage) and spent hundreds of hours training for only to have it all wiped out.
Torture you? Thats a good idea... I like that.

My Titan smells of rich Corinthian Leather...

Anthar Thebess
#91 - 2016-02-08 20:41:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
CCP Larrikin wrote:


There'll be a dev-blog going into more details about our transition plans for Carriers, Force Auxiliaries and a bunch of other stuff, coming out later this week.


Sorry.
You ask us to make a very costly decision that will affect up to year of our gameplay without giving us nothing we can make this decision.

To chose proper FAX, we need information :
- exact stats of FAX
- exact stats of capital modules used by FAX
- exact build cost of FAX

To chose proper Combat Carrier we need :
- exact stats of each carrier
- exact information about new fighters
- exact information what modules will be used by new Combat Carriers

Additionally for both:
- information about citadels, and structures combat carriers will be fighting, and Fax will need to survive.
- information about supers they will kill and save
- information about dreds getting fleet hangars and ship bays.

Capital ships did not show in eve instantly, and you want to introduce FAX in this way.
To many questions, and no answers.
Capital ships are end game skills, and decision what to skill is based on multiple conditions, and all of them are currently unknown.
You don't skill capitals on day one in game, you learn them over months of playing and learning mechanics.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#92 - 2016-02-08 20:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Baki Yuku
Honstly this is a rather poor solution and can not even be called a "solution". The abilities of the orginal skill a rank 16 skill are getting cut in half and the half that got cut away gets a new skill rank 16 as well. Why?

It would have been more sound to just reduce the rank of Fax skill and Carrier skill to rank 7 and everyone who already has the carrier skills at whatever level just gets half the SP back and can then decide on whatever or not to invest them into FAX.
Tiberian Deci
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2016-02-08 20:47:22 UTC
Celeste Benal wrote:
If you aren't going to use those fighter skills anymore, grab some extractors and pull those SP for sale to recoup your FAX skillbook cost.


I refused to spend real money on those things before, and I refuse to do so now as well. I shouldn't be forced to spend real money because the fundamental roles of carriers are changing.
Talixia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2016-02-08 20:52:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Talixia
So am I reading this right....I need the hulls as well?

You haven't addressed those of us that have all racial carriers to 5, so now we also need to have the hulls, so what's going to happen to the hulls? are they going to magically turn into the racial force aux? or will we be stuck with hulls to sell now too?

Not to mention investing ANOTHER 2b into books that should really have just been split off the existing skill (simplicity guys, why do you avoid it?)
Anthar Thebess
#95 - 2016-02-08 21:11:06 UTC
Transition will be probably also on similar rules.
So you will lose rigs, or maybe get them back, but if you have Large rigs on carrier you will probably get large rigs back.
Perfect solution will be moving EVERY Carrier to redeeming quene, including rigs and fitting.
Then allow player to choose what ship they want to back.
Yes some capitals will be moved - but ignore this , give 14 day expiry timer, and after it expire hull lands back in the station.
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#96 - 2016-02-08 21:14:44 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Seconding questions on the fighter skills. We have existing fighters/fighter bombers, what is happening in regards to those?


Whilst it would be nice to know - and perhaps we will find out in 3-4 days.....

If you look in your Overview Settings - there is a new folder for 'Fighters' which has one entry 'Support Fighters'. So it rather looks like our Fighters -> Light Fighters & Fighter Bombers -> Heavy Fighters.

Now - as to numbers, however, I'll guess 1 -> 5 or 6.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#97 - 2016-02-08 21:17:46 UTC
LYFE SUCKS wrote:
what if you trained 2 carriers to V but didnt train tactical logi reconfig yet, but still want the sp refunded as you were training for triage???


Buy the TLR skill and train it to 1 SP......

Buy the FAx skill(s) and train to 1 SP......

On patch day spend as you wish - with 2 Carrier skills you can be an instant FAx pilot.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium

Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#98 - 2016-02-08 21:45:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mai Ling Ravencroft
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-to-the-balancing-future/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174410
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2145814#post2145814

It is a repeated mantra of CCP...

"If you could fly it before, you will be able to do so after the change."

tl;dr- Will CCP break our trst for an extra buck? or will they be true to their word and be faithful to the players?

How is this any different? You are taking my Chimera, Thanatos, Archon, and Nid; splitting then in half and giving us a new hull that we already could use. I didn't train for a Thanatos and Chimera just to be a Triage pilot. Nor did I train them just to be fighter jockies. I trained carriers, rather than dreads because I wanted to be able to do logistics and to participate in the aggressive side of combat.

I can fly Caldari logistic capital hull, I can fly Caldari capital drone ship, it is what I spent over 120+ days training for, it is what I should still be able to fly after the changes. Anything less than that is a breach of trust between the players and CCP, point blank. We the players have always known that any time invested in training for a type of ship would always be of use once we finished the training. Until now.

CCP is violating the one sacred rule, one that we the player base has always felt safe with, and that was the simple knowledge that even if you changed the way things worked later down the road, our training time wouldn't be wasted. Taking that away from us, while tossing in a real currency item that will let us remove those unusable skills, due to the changes, is a money grab.

So I ask you, which is more important, our trust in CCP: that we will always be able to fly what we had before, or a fast buck and completely destroying any faith that CCP will honor any traditions and pledges it has made with the players.

Before you tell us it is a new hull, and that means we never flew it, so it doesn't count. Take a second to recall how you have been contemplating changing current carriers fitted with triage into the new hulls. Basically stating, that thes are the same thing, with a new look and name, but cut in half, no longer having both roles of logistics and combat, but rather each having only part of what it was before. Thus even if I don't move into a FAX, I still won't be flying what I could before, as it is only half the ship it was.
Kallor Eidermann Tes'thesula
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#99 - 2016-02-08 21:50:36 UTC
Just let everyone with at least 1 carrier skill injected turn ALL the skill points on the entire character into unallocated points, so we can reevaluate our life choices when that patch comes out. P

At least when other ship skills split (and let's be honest, they are not adding a NEW ship, just splitting an existing one), there at least was some incentive to get more skill points, which people generally felt pretty happy about. Now all we get is an opportunity to waste tons of time training skills that have been added for no good reason, without knowing if it will be worth it until it is too late.

Give people who have "Racial Carrier to X" an equal amount of skill points towards "Racial Force Auxiliary X". That way we don't lose anything. Make the fighters either Fighter = something and Fighter Bombers = something else, or be sensible and split them in the same way that light and medium drones were. I currently enjoy being able to fly all types of carriers, and I am not incredibly happy about the absolute ton of skill books I have to buy and training I have to do for no benefit over the current system.

I'm pretty confident carriers will be really cool - but your improving your game is the reason I pay a subscription - I am not going to pay a subscription to play the game AND another one for your doing some much needed improvements.
Traiori
Going Critical
#100 - 2016-02-08 21:52:59 UTC
14x skill is 30-50 days to V right? So that's... 120-200 days of training CCP would like me to add to all of my carrier pilots so that they can continue to fulfil the same niche roles, along with dropping 2b per character on skillbooks.

What about my unsubbed characters? Am I expected to resub all of my carrier sitting toons just to be able to have this flexibility? What are the stats of the new carriers? How are the new fighters working? Am I going to be adding on another month of training there?

This is badly thought through. Dedicated multiracial triage alts are looking at 4-6 months of additional training to be able to fly the ships that they've been flying previously. Add on fighters / bombers and if the changes are anything like this set of changes then we're looking at 6-9 months of training.

I'm sure that for the people that don't have dedicated triage alts, this is less of an issue. But I do fly triage, I do have dedicated triage alts, and I have dedicated delivery/sitter pilots too. I fail to see how CCP's mantra of "fly it before, fly it now" is being maintained in any form by this announcement.

Especially annoying as it seems that I'm expected to pay £40-60 per pilot to get them back to where they are at present (ignoring ISK costs) in terms of being able to log in and immediately drop in a capital fleet of any kind in whatever role is required.