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Balancing bumping and looting mechanics

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Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#781 - 2016-02-04 15:54:42 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it.


assume much?

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#782 - 2016-02-04 15:58:12 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it.


assume much?



As you also seem to do.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#783 - 2016-02-04 16:01:06 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:


Honestly, that's a strawman argument..

When CCP ultimately fixes the unbalanced BUMPING in HIGHSEC rules/mechanic, they will surely address ALL potential circumstances..
(if they miss one, THAT may become an EXPLOIT opportunity.. that's how things work)

I believe you posted this just so you could write: "You would be a douchbag with mental issues. Didn't you know?"

How clever.. Roll
Strawman? Hardly. I'm using your logic. Prey tell how does the server know what the intentions are, behind an action?

Maybe it's time to drop the emotional baggage? As funny as your trolling is, we've seen it all before. It's not original. Blink


thing is dude, that you seem butthurt because someone is trying to improve the game..
- to be more realistic
- to be more "fair" in that douchery would have consequences..

You wouldn't be a proponent of wanton douchery, would you?Shocked

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#784 - 2016-02-04 16:05:04 UTC
They likely 'look into' AFK cloaking just as much.
And war decs.
And ganking.
And ship performance.

Monitoring things and keeping up with discussion doesnt automatically mean there is a problem. You can investigate a concern amongst part of the player base without agreeing with them.
CCP Rise wrote:

"We have tried and tried to validate the myth that griefing has a pronounced affect on new players - we have failed... Isolating players away from the actual sandbox seems very contrary to what we would like to accomplish."

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#785 - 2016-02-04 16:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Yeah its pretty clear Bell,a that you've missed alot.

The FAQ, EVE's wiki, EVE's playerbase, CCP themselves (repeatedly) will tell you this is the game you cannot play alone and others can interfer with your game. Its one of the fundamental principals of the game. If you had read up before joining, you'd have caught at least some of this...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mag's
Azn Empire
#786 - 2016-02-04 16:10:02 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Strawman? Hardly. I'm using your logic. Prey tell how does the server know what the intentions are, behind an action?

Maybe it's time to drop the emotional baggage? As funny as your trolling is, we've seen it all before. It's not original. Blink


thing is dude, that you seem butthurt because someone is trying to improve the game..
- to be more realistic
- to be more "fair" in that douchery would have consequences..

You wouldn't be a proponent of wanton douchery, would you?Shocked
I'm a proponent of Eve remaining a sandbox. The fact you label someone's play style as 'wanton douchery ' is irrelevant.

You see in Eve you're able to do whatever you want, within in walls and rules. But others can also do the same. It's down to you to try and stop them if they interfere with your game. Eve is PvP centric, time to learn how to play. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#787 - 2016-02-04 16:57:20 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Strawman? Hardly. I'm using your logic. Prey tell how does the server know what the intentions are, behind an action?

Maybe it's time to drop the emotional baggage? As funny as your trolling is, we've seen it all before. It's not original. Blink


thing is dude, that you seem butthurt because someone is trying to improve the game..
- to be more realistic
- to be more "fair" in that douchery would have consequences..

You wouldn't be a proponent of wanton douchery, would you?Shocked
I'm a proponent of Eve remaining a sandbox. The fact you label someone's play style as 'wanton douchery ' is irrelevant.

You see in Eve you're able to do whatever you want, within in walls and rules. But others can also do the same. It's down to you to try and stop them if they interfere with your game. Eve is PvP centric, time to learn how to play. Blink


I personally don't want to STOP anyone..

I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed.
- I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment..

Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC?

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
Mag's
Azn Empire
#788 - 2016-02-04 17:03:11 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Mag's wrote:
I'm a proponent of Eve remaining a sandbox. The fact you label someone's play style as 'wanton douchery ' is irrelevant.

You see in Eve you're able to do whatever you want, within in walls and rules. But others can also do the same. It's down to you to try and stop them if they interfere with your game. Eve is PvP centric, time to learn how to play. Blink


I personally don't want to STOP anyone..

I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed.
- I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment..

Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC?
Apart from wanting to stop bumping you mean?

Oh and I just got a bingo line filled with that last sentence. Cheers bud.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#789 - 2016-02-04 17:05:44 UTC
Bella Jennie wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it.


assume much?



I'm assuming 'for comprehension' was implied in his comment.

It appears you researched eve and decided it would be a great idea to start playing it and then over time attempt to inflict some form of your own personal moral code on the game and all its players, because you're a douchebag... err I mean, because what you feel is right - obviously is, so let's fix all this immoral stuff and all in the name of what??? For the children - sure you said 'for the new players', but you're basically holding a baby up as a shield and calling others immoral. The whole image makes me sick.

You're the poison trying to infect a decade plus of engaging free form game play. This isn't HTFU, it's sincere advise. If you don't like the sandbox foundation that Eve is played on, go find a game that has a moral code you're happy with and enjoy it. In the end, Eve has been collecting folks that don't agree with your moral high ground (in the game) for over a decade and you will lose this crusade. Many many times I've watched players try to inflict / infect the sandbox with moral codes and dreams of safe and fare play.

Eve Safe - you have enough dps, tank or logistics to complete a desired task.
Eve Fare - if you can do it to them, they are able to do it right back to you.

This is seriously not a HTFU recommendation for you. You're not going to enforce any moral codes on this game, so if that sort of thing is important to you, you'll never be happy here.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#790 - 2016-02-04 17:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bella Jennie wrote:
I personally don't want to STOP anyone..
Except bumpers ...

Quote:
I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed.
It is your, apparently uninformed, opinion that it is unbalanced, your opinion is not fact.

Quote:
- I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment..
What would you consider to be a balanced environment, bearing in mind that it is already ridiculously easy to not get bumped if you're halfway competent, not afk, or of a social nature/ member of a social group?
Quote:
Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC?
Your ignorance is showing again, of course he does, Mags is a lowsec player, he rarely, if ever comes to hisec.

Like myself he has no dog in this fight, but doesn't want to see detrimental changes to the game which are purported to solve a problem that exists only as a matter of opinion.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#791 - 2016-02-04 17:10:02 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So the killrights and your sec status are of really great concern to you but they are completely without consequence for other players like the gankers?


of course killrights are inconsequential for a -10 ganking alt , as evidenced by the frequent bragging in local, minerbumping etc by such as yourselves , who only have to undock, insta warp to safe then warp to target , lock , hit f1.

just to clarify for those who don't 'get it' about krs - a 'white knight ' who uses his main to gank a mach has to take into account that any ship he flies for the next month is at the mercy of the very people he is trying to fight . so the kr is set at say 100 mil , that stops the 'white knight' from getting a friend to clear it, but the moment he shows up in a decent ship, the bumper/gankers will activate the kr at no cost .

You don't have to gank with your main. An EVE account has 3 character slots and ganking chars are trained fast this days. So this is absolutely no excuse. I think the real problem with you white-knights is that you are as usual just really bad at the game and maybe you tried already and failed really hard all the time, everyday, constantly.

bigbud skunkafella wrote:

re looting- looting directly into a fleet hangar of a dst or other ship should cause a suspect timer on the receiving ship. if you want to loot with a dst or similar then you should have to transfer into a can then scoop it as per all ninja looting, which is counterable with mtus and others being able to loot the receiving can . dsts have + 2 warp stab strength , with all wc stabs fitted you get up to + 6 or 7 warp strength, how much more safety do u want ffs?

You are just mad they fixed the wreck HP. I would be very cautious to wish for more ways to become suspect, since we will probably the first to use the new mechanic in a way you did not intended, which is honestly really easy especially with your silly ideas. It seams you only focus on that one single problem and never consider any other implications this could have.

bigbud skunkafella wrote:

another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business? alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile

Yes, confusing mechanics like this is exactly what we need. This will make everyone safer. Are you running for CSM by any chance? I would probably vote you. The broken stuff you produce would entertain us for moths.

Evil RatKid
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#792 - 2016-02-04 17:14:34 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it.


assume much?



I'm assuming 'for comprehension' was implied in his comment.

It appears you researched eve and decided it would be a great idea to start playing it and then over time attempt to inflict some form of your own personal moral code on the game and all its players, because you're a douchebag... err I mean, because what you feel is right - obviously is, so let's fix all this immoral stuff and all in the name of what??? For the children - sure you said 'for the new players', but you're basically holding a baby up as a shield and calling others immoral. The whole image makes me sick.

You're the poison trying to infect a decade plus of engaging free form game play. This isn't HTFU, it's sincere advise. If you don't like the sandbox foundation that Eve is played on, go find a game that has a moral code you're happy with and enjoy it. In the end, Eve has been collecting folks that don't agree with your moral high ground (in the game) for over a decade and you will lose this crusade. Many many times I've watched players try to inflict / infect the sandbox with moral codes and dreams of safe and fare play.

Eve Safe - you have enough dps, tank or logistics to complete a desired task.
Eve Fare - if you can do it to them, they are able to do it right back to you.

This is seriously not a HTFU recommendation for you. You're not going to enforce any moral codes on this game, so if that sort of thing is important to you, you'll never be happy here.


can you just tell me what HTFU is? Thanks in advance.

I'll bring up the point that Games evolve again..
- Eve is not static; it has evolved greatly..

I can petition for whatever I see fit.

I'll be very happy once CCP is able to address and CORRECT this issue of UNBALANCED gameplay in HISEC space resulting from there being no consequences for WEAPONIZED BUMPING.

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#793 - 2016-02-04 17:15:09 UTC
bigbud skunkafella wrote:


another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business?

alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile




re-posting this cos nobody seems to have noticed what with being so busy going off topic . easy to code, 2nd option all player driven consequences which will bring loads of content opportunities , whats not to like? Big smile
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#794 - 2016-02-04 17:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:


another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business?

alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile




re-posting this cos nobody seems to have noticed what with being so busy going off topic . easy to code, 2nd option all player driven consequences which will bring loads of content opportunities , whats not to like? Big smile
You forgot easy to exploit, 2 days after implementation MiniLuv and the New Order guys will be using it to get legal kills on all sorts of stuff.

If it can be used to tip the odds, it will, no matter the original intent of the change.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#795 - 2016-02-04 17:20:02 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:

Teckos Pech wrote:
What a load of Bravo Sierra...funny how gankers manage this just fine.
With insta undocks, and reasonable precautions ganking a bumping ship is indeed quite feasible, but go ahead and grasp at straws. Roll

What the heck are you talking about? Insta undocks, precautions? I'm not talking about ganking the bumper, I'm talking about doing anything in hisec with a kill right on your head if the person holding that kill right has any idea about what can be done with it (judging from your posts, you obviously don't). Gankers (or their ganking chars) don't care about killrights, hell they don't care about sec status to start with since current crimewatch mechanics allow them to be completely functional regardless of concord and facpo.


Seriously? Gankers can operate just fine with kill rights...but you can't?

You have the ability to gank the bumper but you choose not too because :effort:.

Whatever.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#796 - 2016-02-04 17:21:10 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:


another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business?

alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile




re-posting this cos nobody seems to have noticed what with being so busy going off topic . easy to code, 2nd option all player driven consequences which will bring loads of content opportunities , whats not to like? Big smile
You forgot easy to exploit, 2 days after implementation MiniLuv and the New Order guys will be using it to get legal kills on all sorts of stuff.

schhhh, he really thinks it's a good idea

Evil RatKid
Bella Jennie
Doomheim
#797 - 2016-02-04 17:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bella Jennie
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Bella Jennie wrote:
I personally don't want to STOP anyone..
Except bumpers ...

Quote:
I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed.
It is your, apparently uninformed, opinion that it is unbalanced, your opinion is not fact.

Quote:
- I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment..
What would you consider to be a balanced environment, bearing in mind that it is already ridiculously easy to not get bumped if you're halfway competent, not afk, or of a social nature/ member of a social group?
Quote:
Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC?
Your ignorance is showing again, of course he does, Mags is a lowsec player, he rarely, if ever comes to hisec.

Like myself he has no dog in this fight, but doesn't want to see detrimental changes to the game which are purported to solve a problem that exists only as a matter of opinion.


The RIGHT opinions do matter..

Some people were of the opinion that the WATER in FLINT, MI was not a problem.

Oh and you are also allowing your emotions to color my post's meaning:
- I sure DO NOT want to stop BUMPERS; I just want them tagged as CRIMINALS when they do it in HISEC..

Think about that a minute.. maybe you'll catch some light.

this game currently favors the DOUCHEBAGS
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#798 - 2016-02-04 17:32:35 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So the killrights and your sec status are of really great concern to you but they are completely without consequence for other players like the gankers?


of course killrights are inconsequential for a -10 ganking alt , as evidenced by the frequent bragging in local, minerbumping etc by such as yourselves , who only have to undock, insta warp to safe then warp to target , lock , hit f1.

just to clarify for those who don't 'get it' about krs - a 'white knight ' who uses his main to gank a mach has to take into account that any ship he flies for the next month is at the mercy of the very people he is trying to fight . so the kr is set at say 100 mil , that stops the 'white knight' from getting a friend to clear it, but the moment he shows up in a decent ship, the bumper/gankers will activate the kr at no cost .

You don't have to gank with your main. An EVE account has 3 character slots and ganking chars are trained fast this days. So this is absolutely no excuse. I think the real problem with you white-knights is that you are as usual just really bad at the game and maybe you tried already and failed really hard all the time, everyday, constantly.

bigbud skunkafella wrote:

re looting- looting directly into a fleet hangar of a dst or other ship should cause a suspect timer on the receiving ship. if you want to loot with a dst or similar then you should have to transfer into a can then scoop it as per all ninja looting, which is counterable with mtus and others being able to loot the receiving can . dsts have + 2 warp stab strength , with all wc stabs fitted you get up to + 6 or 7 warp strength, how much more safety do u want ffs?

You are just mad they fixed the wreck HP. I would be very cautious to wish for more ways to become suspect, since we will probably the first to use the new mechanic in a way you did not intended, which is honestly really easy especially with your silly ideas. It seams you only focus on that one single problem and never consider any other implications this could have.

bigbud skunkafella wrote:

another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business? alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile

Yes, confusing mechanics like this is exactly what we need. This will make everyone safer. Are you running for CSM by any chance? I would probably vote you. The broken stuff you produce would entertain us for moths.


1st/ as i only have one account, the day ccp lets us log in 2 alts from the same account is the day i'll have an alt ready for ganking alongside my main, which has 90% of my sp invested in it.

2nd/ in what way is making transferring yellow loot into a dst fleet hangar a suspect timer on the dst unreasonable? it won't prevent you looting wrecks, but will bring back an element of risk which is sadly lacking at the moment . mostly this will only affect gankers who currently not only have ccp holding their hands with unlimited bumping with no consequences, but also safely looting their victims wrecks with no consequences.

3/ whats so confusing about my suggestions? u batter another ship at hi speed , repeatedly over a period of several minutes,preventing it entering warp , u get a flag which 'gasp' , might have some negative consequences for the bumper , especially if the target has some friends along with him.

not too tricky to code, and pretty easy to understand to the of average intelligence eve player i'd imagine, and the hi speed ramming over a period of minutes requirement would pretty much eliminate any accidental collisions from creating a flag .
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#799 - 2016-02-04 17:36:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Bella Jennie wrote:
The RIGHT opinions do matter..
Informed opinions matter, yours is uninformed.

Quote:
Some people were of the opinion that the WATER in FLINT, MI was not a problem.
What has that got to do with the subject at hand?

Quote:
Oh and you are also allowing your emotions to color my post's meaning:
- I sure DO NOT want to stop BUMPERS; I just want them tagged as CRIMINALS when they do it in HISEC..
Why would they be tagged with a criminal flag? They haven't activated an offensive module on another player, ergo they haven't committed a crime.

Quote:
Think about that a minute.. maybe you'll catch some light.
It is you that is in the dark, not I.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
bigbud skunkafella
Utama Incorporated
Astral Alliance
#800 - 2016-02-04 17:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: bigbud skunkafella
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:
bigbud skunkafella wrote:


another idea to bring some balance to unlimited bumping with no consequences, how about when a freighter is hit repeatedly by a ship or ships , above a certain speed and preventing it entering warp over a period of 2- 3 mins say , a timer is set warning the bumper(s) he/they have 20 mins before he goes suspect for illegally obstructing a pilot from going about his business?

alternatively, after a set amopunt of hi speed hits over a period of time, the freighter pilot gets a right to clear his way of the criminals impeding his progress in the form of a limited engagement type timer , where, upon activation , anyone in his fleet can legally engage the bumper , the downside being that upon activation, he can also be engaged by the bumper(s) .just think of the fun to be had... Big smile




re-posting this cos nobody seems to have noticed what with being so busy going off topic . easy to code, 2nd option all player driven consequences which will bring loads of content opportunities , whats not to like? Big smile
You forgot easy to exploit, 2 days after implementation MiniLuv and the New Order guys will be using it to get legal kills on all sorts of stuff.

schhhh, he really thinks it's a good idea


soz, there was a response as i was reposting this earlier. i think it's a brilliant idea, cos dontcha know i'm awesome? Lol

they can do what they want, if it means bumpers have to face consequences for their actions by their victims + fleet mates, fuggin awesome content .