Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Ok, I give up.

It's like we're talking to ******* Bill Clinton here.

A raptor will cover that distance in 21 seconds, In order to stop it you have to first notice a frigate is working with the freighter turn around the MWDing battleships, manover them into a new position and then have them pull off a run. You cannot reposition MWDing Battleships in 21 seconds.

Yes, but what exactly is 'is' in this context. Is ganking, 'is' gankimg or 'is' ganking? There is a world of difference you know?

As my friends have stated we are in no way saying that ganking should be nerfed. It's a tactic, one employed by my team to hunt bumpers and scouts on a daily basis.

We are just asking that bumping and looting be revisited for balance.

Perhaps the loot that was ill gained can remain yellow indefinitely, no matter how many times it is dropped. Like a hot potato.

As a wreck shooter I believe that I add to the risk the gankers take when they kill a freighter. Having a looting freighter ready to go, grab the loot, and warp out without being pointed, and before the wreck gets destroyed by the likes of me takes real skill. Hats off to the pilot that can do it. Looting in a criminal ship that is about to get concorded is an exploit in my opinion: there is no skill involved.

Bumping will probably not get nerfed... But if this was IRL, and given this situation, I would design a ship with stronger web abilities (not just improved webifier range). A naval faction frigate that would actually have been used by a navy faction: as a freighter escort.

Food for thought.

Anyway, long live the militia! Death to Code!

Overall, good post.

On this bit though, can you explain how that aspect is a problem.

The OP claims that the catalysts loot the wreck before dying, which seems to be the same thing you are referring to here given the quote. Back a few pages ago I posted some figures, having looked at it; and it just doesn't seem even remotely plausible as a common issue that needs mechanics to be changed.

Initially, I based my figures on 30 catalysts to gank a Freighter, but then looked at zkill and it's 25 catalysts based on several kills in the last few days.

So 1 Providence can carry upwards of 1 million m^3 in it's cargo and each catalyst has 450 m^3 cargo capacity.

Assuming the cargo of the catalysts is completely empty then:

25 x 450 = 11,250 m^3 total capacity (about only 1% of the cargo capacity of a freighter).

Any package larger than 450 obviously can't be looted in the initial looting.

So the catalysts need to as a minimum:

1. Kill the freighter
2. Wreck appears on grid
3. Open the wreck
4. Loot the first time
5. Jettison their cargo
6. Jettisoned container appears on grid
7. Open the cargo container that is now in space
8. transfer additional loot from the Freighter wreck to the cargo container that has a maximum capacity of 27,500 m^3

Any package larger than 27,500 obviously can't be moved at all out of the wreck by the criminal catalysts; and with 25 containers having a maximum of 687,500 m^3, they can't loot a full freighter anyway.

Each of those steps takes time, especially as the action of the player needs to be sent to the server, queued for the next update cycle, processed and the result sent to all players. Each of those actions is an absolute minimum of 1 second, but more realistically at least 2 seconds, not including the time to kill the freighter.

In terms of the killing of the freighter, in this video it was 15 seconds from initial point until the freighter was killed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfiF5ZrFKXE

So assuming that is an absolutely worst case (giving only 5 seconds approx for all the rest of the steps), even something half that at around 7 seconds, means that timing to achieve the looting is near impossible.

On top of that, when looting more than can fit into the ship cargo or container, there is an additional step of the pop-up window asking how much to move, adding a further cycle of send, process, receive into the mix.

I have no doubt that players have tried it and maybe even some have achieved it. That alone doesn't make it a problem though. It seems in the absence of data to show how significant a problem it is, that it's a total outlying case if someone manages it successfully.

Why is it a problem that needs to be changed, especially as it seems far from no skill involved to get the timing absolutely perfect?

Wow... So that's what it comes down to. Next thing you are going to do is insult mothers. I should not be surprised.

You gankers are pretty set in your ways, when when things are leaning your way, and they are. As Rhamnousia said, its many things on the other side which AG can't control. I would not expect you to understand that. However please, if you have nothing constructive to say to this topic, please refrain from posting.

Thank you.

I agree, ganking a Mach is a good way to do it, However with the amount of Machs they have ready to go, and other pilots ready to bump, it is not always a guarantied stop to gank. It is tougher then you think to gank a Mach that is constantly moving and bumping. A few things need to come together for that to happen.

This however is what I love about the game, gankers are not completely safe, AG is not completely safe, we have been ganked while protecting the freighter. It happens sometimes. I would not want to take that away from Eve.

My final suggestion in between this pillow fight of a thread :)......

If any ship is unable to reach warp within 20-30 minutes of starting the WarpTo/Dock process, collision detection is dropped for that ship. Most bumps last 15 minutes before gank anyway....so still fair? Most AGer have no problem with bumping itself....its just length of time those bumps can last. Ransomers still have to time bluff they have a fleet to kill if they choose too. If the bumped ship attempts to change its WarpTo location, timers start over. If they are smart its to a station or a safe spot to log off... if its a empty system. They can be followed to next system and the whole process starts over.

So to avoid the lowsec/null issue.... if you any scrams/disruptors are activated against the bump target, collision detection stays intact during that time.

A 20-30 timer starts automatically(even if system is empty) as soon as right click, warp to/dock is attempted or Autopilot attempting to start the process. Bumps/Collisions have no bearing on when that timer starts. The timer can restart, IF they stop their ship and attempt warp again to another location, given bumping ships another advantage. Bumpers are only attempting to bump until its ganked or timer expires, at which any thing around the freighter just passes thru it. If freighter reaches successful warp....timer off, collision detection restored before that warp ends.

It doesn't even have to be a ship causing the issue.....could be a asteroid or gate keeping you bouncing around while trying to warp.