Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You need to fix your link. That's one of a quote from Black Pedro.

Well because many wanted the same original stats, but with fittings. They were quite amazed and upset when this didn't happen, therefore think of it as a nerf. But anyone with Eve knowledge will know that's not how it works.

And if there were no options to avoid and counter it, I would agree. But seeing as it's been shown in this thread and in game options do exist, I don't see your point.

Well, it's not just my point. In terms of options - there really are few and some of them are problematic to say at least (ganking the bumper for example), however I think and I bet you'd find quite a few people agreeing that while bumping an afk pilot might be ok in a cosmic-justice sense, ability to permabump an active freighter pilot is a bit too much. Providing an option for the freighter pilot to (through active game-play by that player) get away would make sense. The problem is the fact that once first bump lands (and, as we've established so far - that can happen regardless of having a webber alt) when faced with a good bumper you can't get out legally and the bumper has no consequences. I don't understand how that fact is so logical or acceptable.

Because even when bumped you can get out of it very easily either by warping to a fast ship out in front of the bumped freighter or by counter bumping the bumpers.

I still don't see your point. Not because I'm being awkward, but because it relies upon such a narrow set of circumstances. All in an attempt to justify a change.

Let me explain. You say we've established one can still be bumped, even when webbed. I say so what? Nothing should be 100%, nothing. But just how often does this happen? Truthfully now, I would say extremely rarely.
So avoidance with webbs is an rather good option to have. Whether it's too good, is by the by.

So then we arrive at someone being bumped. So seeing how webbing is very good at avoiding this, when a pilots ends up being bumped, just how easy should it be to escape? You see we've already had the easy part, now it's the hard part. But they can escape, as bumping is again not 100%. You can bump the bumper, kill the bumper, always use a jump freighter, or have a friend in a fast small ship try and position himself in the direction of the bump. Easy? No, it requires effort. Doable? Yes, with effort.

I would also say balanced. Whether you like it or not, to change something that's easily avoidable and also escapable after, (even if that escape takes some effort and isn't guaranteed) isn't justifiable. Especially when those changes may impact the game, in so many other negative ways.

Because even when bumped you can get out of it very easily either by warping to a fast ship out in front of the bumped freighter or by counter bumping the bumpers.[/quote]

Well, I've actually done these things so:

- warping to a fast ship only works if the bumper pays no attention to what's going on and does not change his bump vector. We've had fleets with 3-4 people in fast ships trying to provide warpins and more often then not it would not work.
- bumping the bumper is very hard and unreliable. you might land one hit but he recovers from it quickly and then gets another bump on freighter.

Other things I've participated in:
- suicide webbing the bumper in order to provide window for the freighter
- repper fleets
- bumping the freighter into warp (using machariel)
- bumping the freighter as the gank fleet lands
- alphaing gankers using arty loki, cane and/or tornado
- haven't participated in the gank but have assisted with ganking a bumper
- popping the loot
- ganking the scanner alts
- stealing loot

maybe some other stuff I can't think of right now.

After all I can tell that atm the game is skewed towards gankers by a large margin precisely thanks to bumping which provides choice of timing, ability for lazy ping-based reactions and the ability to avoid any opposition. I can see why big ganking groups are opposing the potential chages of bumping but in reality it would not make ganking impossible just more pro-active for both sides.

Well, I would have said that it was balanced before I joined AG and participated in their efforts to prevent ganks. Then you see the other side and the fact that it really is far from it (I've tried providing short explanation why above, long ones can be found in other threads where we discussed this topic). I don't think that bumping should be removed from the game or radically changed (due to the potential impact you mention yourself) but providing some options for active gameplay counter to bumping by the freighter pilot would make sense imho.

I dunno if you've noticed this yet, but considering you still willingly call yourself one of them I'm imagining you haven't...

But they suck. Really, really hard. Few suck harder. Using them as your example only proves that "mad cause bad" is in full effect here.

You have done none of these things. How can I tell?

Because as a battleship pilot I know full well how easy it is for a single cruiser to utterly mess up bumping. Toss 5 cruisers at a battleship and it will never get anywhere near the freighter. Equally you have never tried to get a frigate out in front of a bumped ship, you likely never even knew of this tactic until it was pointed out to you in this thread. You simply won't notice a ship pulling this move on a very busy gate such as Uedama before its done.