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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Pistonbroke
Horde Armada
Pandemic Horde
#301 - 2016-01-18 21:22:01 UTC
I can't wait to see who will be the first of the EvE super-rich who gets every skill in eve to V, using injectors and screw the cost.

Of course it will happen, E-peens must be unzipped, released and swung around.

Of course CCP can release ever more ship variants, each requiring another skill, to fly and probably yet another skill to use its "special module" That way, even older players will feel the need to use these items to be able to fly the FOTM / new doctrine whilst it's still cancer hot. Should work quite well with much more frequent updates..........

Like Nuclear weapons, SPs can be viewed as something of an arms race, and as such, I'd expect that even those who don't like the idea, assuming that they can afford them, will make sure they are not left behind.

Milk that cash-cow CCP, while it lasts, the competitions games are catching up fast, and the players finally have somewhere else to go when you push too far, and take too much.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#302 - 2016-01-18 21:23:12 UTC
Mikron Alexarr wrote:
I saw this dev blog come up on Facebook. I know that costs aren't set in stone yet, but what is to prevent someone from making a new character for the soul purpose of SP farming? Simply remap stats for a set of skills that you can train and siphon off SP as needed.

I hate to break it to you, but this is not only already happening, but has happened for years. I, myself, have two of my accounts sustaining themselves, long-term, by training alts specifically for sale on the Character Bazaar. One of the most reliable money makers in Eve was doing this with Power of Two accounts. Skill extractors change nothing about this process except how quickly you can realize a profit.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Baron Agamemnon
Black Raven Corsairs
#303 - 2016-01-18 21:24:25 UTC
I already got close to 130M SP, so I got all I want anyways. Good for new players I guess.

EVE has been "pay to win" since plex :P
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#304 - 2016-01-18 21:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikron Alexarr
Querns wrote:
Mikron Alexarr wrote:
I saw this dev blog come up on Facebook. I know that costs aren't set in stone yet, but what is to prevent someone from making a new character for the soul purpose of SP farming? Simply remap stats for a set of skills that you can train and siphon off SP as needed.

I hate to break it to you, but this is not only already happening, but has happened for years. I, myself, have two of my accounts sustaining themselves, long-term, by training alts specifically for sale on the Character Bazaar. One of the most reliable money makers in Eve was doing this with Power of Two accounts. Skill extractors change nothing about this process except how quickly you can realize a profit.


Oh I know it's been going on for years. Hence my comment about the Bazaar. It's the other things I commented on that I'm worried about.

Also, rather than remapping for an optimal skill plan, just optimize 2 attributes. then you're at max SP gain. Extract skills, and profit. I don't disagree that the profit potential is high. My concern (as you so astutely pointed out) is the rate of profit and it's effects on an already borked economy.
Solhild
Doomheim
#305 - 2016-01-18 21:27:31 UTC
Soltys wrote:
Hell yes.

.....or better, keep it simple and equally enjoyable for every character:

0 - +inf: 5% penalty (475,000)

And the question everyone has - what kind of AUR price for the extractor are you aiming at ?


Agree.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#306 - 2016-01-18 21:37:19 UTC
Interesting that the 80m SP+ bracket is getting a much greater return than originally proposed.

Still eagerly awaiting AUR cost estimation at the least to complete the picture.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#307 - 2016-01-18 21:39:15 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Interesting that the 80m SP+ bracket is getting a much greater return than originally proposed.

Still eagerly awaiting AUR cost estimation at the least to complete the picture.

Interesting is ... definitely one way to put it.

It's quite a jump eh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Zee Zaugg
Zero's Legion
#308 - 2016-01-18 21:40:25 UTC
Theres a few other things that are bad about this besides the pay to win feature.

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game. Its a major achievement to move up a ship class, even going from frig to dessie was ecxiting as hell as a newbro, if this becomes a reality, that sense of achievement will be seriously mitigated. It is not nearly as effective to buy your way into a ship as it is to have to wait for it, and to work for it, and to sit on the edge of your seat as the skill queue ticks down the last few minutes. This is one of the best parts of eve, finally earning the right to use new things. With this gone moving up a class or using something new has no more sense of achievement, it is simply something you bought.

How about a counter-thought. Make it so that each character has a set number of skill injectors they can use. You can still extract as much as you want and sell it for isk, but you can only use a certain amount of injectors per character. Say 10 for this scenario, though that would likely not be the actual number. This way, people can buy sp, but not enough to make them skip the beginning of the game as new players, nor would older players be able to inject enough to buy a more elite character. Even if the numbers stay the same as now, with minimum of 150k sp per character, and use 10 max injectors as a baseline number, thats stil 1.5 million sp that you didnt have to wait for. Thats roughly 20 days of no-implant training right there, which is a significant amount of time in Eve, but not enough to break the game and not enough to skyrocket High SP players even higher, and you could even increase the numbers somewhat without it being too bad,

This would mitigate, if not eliminate, almost every concern voiced by outraged players. It would still allow selling SP for isk, and it would still allow instant training, just it would eliminate most of the abusiveness of it. It could even be lore friendly, something along the lines of the brain can only handle so much stress before being permanently damaged.

Please consider it, or something similar, this can be implemented without being a bad thing, it just needs to be done right, and unlimited free sp for rich players is a very bad thing
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#309 - 2016-01-18 21:45:22 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Interesting that the 80m SP+ bracket is getting a much greater return than originally proposed.

Still eagerly awaiting AUR cost estimation at the least to complete the picture.

Interesting is ... definitely one way to put it.

It's quite a jump eh.
Indeed, prior numbers put this at a solid no for me on any character.

New numbers? Situationally it seems like it might be worthwhile, like those forgotten or suddenly useful off map skills that may have been omitted for whatever reason.

Of course that could change back to a no for me if we see some action of the idea of removing attributes in the near future.
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#310 - 2016-01-18 21:45:23 UTC
Zee Zaugg wrote:


Please consider it, or something similar, this can be implemented without being a bad thing, it just needs to be done right, and unlimited free sp for rich players is a very bad thing


QFT. This would also help reduce some of the market abuse that I'm concerned about. Adoption would be slower since the demand could be so potentially curbed. This would allow a much smoother transition that would affect PLEX much less severely.
Grismar
Vertigo Corp
#311 - 2016-01-18 21:45:48 UTC
I like the overall idea... but:

I think CCP is missing a major opportunity here, by going for generic skill points instead of dedicated skill points for a specific skill. Two or three actually.

An opportunity for a rich and deep trade in skill points, where the rarity of skill points is decided by what people choose and chose to invest in before. People farming specific skills just because they do well in the market right now, people hoarding specific skills, etc. A huge opportunity for interesting economy and trade.

Secondly, an opportunity for control and balance. Both for CCP itself and corporations and alliances. With skill specific extractors, it would be possible to prevent new skills spreading like wildfire and it would be possible to put the breaks on people all chasing that one flavor of the month skill. Corporations would be able to provide their fledgling pilots with specific skills instead of just heaps of skill points that can be spent on anything.

Thirdly an (I think) important opportunity to put an early brake on a part of the community that will start flocking to whatever the flavor of the month is based on balance changes in the game. At any one time, specific ships and weapons will be favored over others (sometimes rightfully so, sometimes not so much). But with the option to re-skill (because that's what you get at a price here) to any skill you like, everyone can flock to the same skill, immediately unlocking that flavor of the month ship.

In conclusion: I like being able to buy skills someone else grew, but I don't like the generic skill points. I think they detract from the impact of player choice, because choices made in the past no longer affect the available skills of the future. The game becomes more generic with generic skill points, where they could have deepened it.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#312 - 2016-01-18 21:47:05 UTC
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game.

I had my first capital capable pilot and ship before I was more than a year old in the game. The Character Bazaar exists.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Aerious
Faceless Heavy industry
Cyno.Up
#313 - 2016-01-18 21:52:38 UTC
Querns wrote:
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game.

I had my first capital capable pilot and ship before I was more than a year old in the game. The Character Bazaar exists.



Well, leave it at that, i've bought and sold many a character this way for profit, the only reason CCP™ are smiling at skill trading is they will be able to sell the skill extractor on the new eden store and make more money, why not raise the monthly subscription and put this stupid idea to bed.

"They worried we would eventually offer not just vanity items, but ones that would give the Haves an unfair advantage over the Have-Nots."

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#314 - 2016-01-18 21:53:00 UTC
Now someone tell me with a straight face that EVE is doing well financially.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#315 - 2016-01-18 21:54:47 UTC
Querns wrote:
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game.

I had my first capital capable pilot and ship before I was more than a year old in the game. The Character Bazaar exists.

Damnit you remind me that by the time I had my titan character trained up, it would've been faster and cheaper to buy one off the bazaar

because people fore firesaling them or something? Like, suddenly people didn't feel the need to join a big superblob, wonder what happened...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#316 - 2016-01-18 21:55:31 UTC
Aerious wrote:
Querns wrote:
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game.

I had my first capital capable pilot and ship before I was more than a year old in the game. The Character Bazaar exists.



Well, leave it at that, i've bought and sold many a character this way for profit, the only reason CCP™ are smiling at skill trading is they will be able to sell the skill extractor on the new eden store and make more money, why not raise the monthly subscription and put this stupid idea to bed.
Maybe because raising the cost for everyone might have a greater consequence than raising the cost to play for those farming SP to sell, is one reason I can think of. The proposition has no effect on my cost as a subbed player or potential TSP buyer.
Korvin
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
#317 - 2016-01-18 21:58:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Korvin
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#318 - 2016-01-18 21:58:40 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Now someone tell me with a straight face that EVE is doing well financially.
Best inkling we have with all things in mind suggests that eve itself IS doing well financially. CCP had some losses to take from WOD, dust is doings something and the other projects are just getting off the ground so there is that, but Eve seems fine.
Erotisk Folkdans
Club Autism
#319 - 2016-01-18 21:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Erotisk Folkdans
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way.


Ooh I was waiting for this one. You really can't stand the thought of new players getting something you didn't get, can you? They must be denied! Please CCP, don't let new players be competitive!

They can die in their new ships and get experience just as easy. You just can't kill them as easy.

I would suggest before you fall asleep tonight, think long and hard about all those new players having fun with a little more sp. Quicker than you had. Hurts, doesn't it?

Pathetic.

sp trading is the best thing since sliced bittervet

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#320 - 2016-01-18 22:00:16 UTC
Aerious wrote:
Querns wrote:
Zee Zaugg wrote:

Lots of players will lose a lot of expirience. We all had to claw our way into better ships, dying and learning along the way. When we get into capitals, unless you are laser focused, it comes from years of dedication to this game.

I had my first capital capable pilot and ship before I was more than a year old in the game. The Character Bazaar exists.



Well, leave it at that, i've bought and sold many a character this way for profit, the only reason CCP™ are smiling at skill trading is they will be able to sell the skill extractor on the new eden store and make more money, why not raise the monthly subscription and put this stupid idea to bed.

Uh, what?

The only way I can think of how this makes sense is if you're a career character trader who's angry about his business taking a hit.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.