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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Indahmawar Fazmarai
#3661 - 2016-01-12 08:04:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Solecist Project wrote:
Poddington Bare wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March.


Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already.

I'd suggest pointing a certain group at certain someone's actually obvious alts ...
... who are ludicrously easy to spot in OOPE ...
... who certainly keep flying freighters ...........


Oh boy I love my rare black top so much! :D


Hi Sherlock, just to make things clear, I've never hidden any alts. I've made quite public that Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is alone on her account, Yiole Gionglao, Indahmawar Fazmarai and Lea-Marie 'Teacup' Nardieu share an alt account, and Cecilia Matilda Fock and Matilda Cecilia Fock share a third account. Roll
Solecist Project
#3662 - 2016-01-12 08:24:35 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Poddington Bare wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March.


Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already.

I'd suggest pointing a certain group at certain someone's actually obvious alts ...
... who are ludicrously easy to spot in OOPE ...
... who certainly keep flying freighters ...........


Oh boy I love my rare black top so much! :D


Hi Sherlock, just to make things clear, I've never hidden any alts. I've made quite public that Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is alone on her account, Yiole Gionglao, Indahmawar Fazmarai and Lea-Marie 'Teacup' Nardieu share an alt account, and Cecilia Matilda Fock and Matilda Cecilia Fock share a third account. Roll

Yep, *I* certainly know.
But most don't actually look into LAGL.

Well, that at least saved people some time. ^_^

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3663 - 2016-01-12 11:51:43 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
This confirms my earlier "your vision on PVP is very limited", not to bash or anything but honestly "you can't pvp unless you fly a ship worth billions", "you need T3 to pvp" is hilarious nonsense.


Your ability to grasp my fairly simple English is limited as well, because I've said I Market PvP with billions and I've said you need some "trick" (like in example an appropriately fit T3) to escape those boosted gatecamps.

I don't recall saying anyone NEEDS to fly a billion ship or T3 just to be "enabled" to PvP. In fact I only ever PvPed in Rifters, cruisers, BCs and - seldom - in a Tempest. I have some T3 ships somewhere but they are for exploration and WH stuff.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Solecist Project
#3664 - 2016-01-12 12:18:34 UTC

Hey Gregor, how're you doing?

How's the weather?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3665 - 2016-01-13 03:06:07 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed.


What's this then?
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3666 - 2016-01-13 09:10:09 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
I, and others, do just fine soloing or small gang, escaping camps and "instalockers" and no we don't rely on WCS or anything silly like that. Your depiction of EVE PVP isn't necessarily unrealistic but it's kinda defeatist in a "there's nothing that can be done about it" as if you're trying to convince yourself that it's just futile to even try, and thus it's just better to stick to market stuff.

Solo PVP works fine in EVE, it's limited and you will run into problems a lot, but that's the way of niche game play (like how EVE is a niche game to begin with). You just have to agree to the limitations and issues that come with it.


"Market stuff" is actually PvP, every time I get "killed" in PvP I can lose 500M-10 billions (I mostly do long term trading, where money adds), which is well beyond what I'd lose if I played with ships.

The "instalock" stuff is not defeatism. Is denouncing an hideously stupid mechanic that scares "non pros" away from PvP.

Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed.
If you don't get slammed, then the other guy just sucks at ganking.

In comparison, "pathetic ED PvP" is a supreme giant, as you always get a chance when scrambled and one after being scrambled.


Tbh. a lot of ships can escape gatecamps in high and low sec as an example pretty easily. Most T1, navy and pirate frigates can escape those camps without effort (I have both escaped and gatecamped many times). It happens in FW every day. You rarely get caught.
Destroyers are more tricky, sometimes I make it, sometimes I do not. Anything bigger with no cloak will be caught.

Most things with mwd+cloak that is not a superslow BS or something will also mostly get away before being decloaked. Decloaking is not as trivial as you think, and depend alot on the distance they decloak at from your tacklers.

Some times you are lucky and manage to burn back to gate.

Strategic bookmarks can also help.

And then we have not discussed the possibility to have a scout at all yet. This is very efficient way to avoid gatecamps. The best way to not get killed in a gatecamp, is to never land in one.

More luck based is holding cloak and hope someone else will decloak in the meantime (has never worked for me though Smile).

"non pros" can also fly frigates or fit mwd cloak on a drone ship or one with a free utility high, I am sure.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#3667 - 2016-01-13 11:54:17 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed.


What's this then?



sero Hita wrote:

Tbh. a lot of ships can escape gatecamps in high and low sec as an example pretty easily. Most T1, navy and pirate frigates can escape those camps without effort (I have both escaped and gatecamped many times). It happens in FW every day. You rarely get caught.
Destroyers are more tricky, sometimes I make it, sometimes I do not. Anything bigger with no cloak will be caught.

Most things with mwd+cloak that is not a superslow BS or something will also mostly get away before being decloaked. Decloaking is not as trivial as you think, and depend alot on the distance they decloak at from your tacklers.

Some times you are lucky and manage to burn back to gate.


I think I explained myself bad. I don't say it's impossible to escape gatecamps, I did that a lot of times myself (well played smartbomb camps are harder, if you didn't know the next gate has one and did not setup appropriate bookmarks in advance).

I am bringing the example from another game, where you can get a "gate camp" but the dynamics give you a proper fighting chance and to use a proper PvP ship to do that.

In EvE if you want to do more than just dart away but want to take the fight, your stabbed / nanoed / whatever ship is not exactly going to stand a lot of chances. That's why I bring the case for T3, because with them you can more or less replicate the (in my opinion, fun) mechanic of getting in a camp and decide to stay and fight back in good terms.

Then, of course, if the gatecamper(s) is bad, you might make it with a BC or BS but I'd hardly would go around looking for sparring with a lone BS, it's too juicy and easily picked target.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#3668 - 2016-01-13 12:17:13 UTC
So shoot me down but in order for Eve to continue to thrive and maintain its current community/universe it needs new players...
Yes CCP needs to retain its loyal core of players as well but without fresh blood inevitably we are on a demographic down turn even if not in numbers then in game time (hell i don't know may be we should market at older/retired people who have much more time on their hands)...

And no one is going to like this but in order to attract a different cohort of players we need to offer a region of hi sec that is uber safe... so that people can work through the mechanics of the game, build skill points, get into the social aspect - we could still recruit these players to our Corps so they get tied into the game but they would only go into what is currently high sec if they choose to

So what I mean is real starter space that would be boring as hell given my interest is pvp and the constant threat of being popped anywhere including high sec... so a small region that is competely under concord control (you'd need to make sure it couldnt be used to subvert isk making in the rest of the universe thats where it all gets complicated i know) so no ganking... vanilla eve if you like... but where we get people hooked so they have the confidence and interest to explore the tougher and real universe that is lord of the flies eve style

And marketing... and more marketing... to get players in through the vanilla route or into the full on in at the deep end that is the eve experience

Yeah vanilla recruits may not stay but we have a lot of people who try and quit without giving the game enough time... do we know why? I have a suspicion that it isnt the game that makes it so hard at the beginning as such its the other players Evil
Top Guac
Doomheim
#3669 - 2016-01-13 12:23:41 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
So shoot me down but in order for Eve to continue to thrive and maintain its current community/universe it needs new players...
Yes CCP needs to retain its loyal core of players as well but without fresh blood inevitably we are on a demographic down turn even if not in numbers then in game time (hell i don't know may be we should market at older/retired people who have much more time on their hands)...

And no one is going to like this but in order to attract a different cohort of players we need to offer a region of hi sec that is uber safe... so that people can work through the mechanics of the game, build skill points, get into the social aspect - we could still recruit these players to our Corps so they get tied into the game but they would only go into what is currently high sec if they choose to

So what I mean is real starter space that would be boring as hell given my interest is pvp and the constant threat of being popped anywhere including high sec... so a small region that is competely under concord control (you'd need to make sure it couldnt be used to subvert isk making in the rest of the universe thats where it all gets complicated i know) so no ganking... vanilla eve if you like... but where we get people hooked so they have the confidence and interest to explore the tougher and real universe that is lord of the flies eve style

And marketing... and more marketing... to get players in through the vanilla route or into the full on in at the deep end that is the eve experience

Yeah vanilla recruits may not stay but we have a lot of people who try and quit without giving the game enough time... do we know why? I have a suspicion that it isnt the game that makes it so hard at the beginning as such its the other players Evil


Boring as hell space is going to hook new players?

I think not. That'd just drive them away.
Vivias Xelnoa
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3670 - 2016-01-13 13:26:02 UTC
I need my 'safe space' :P. In all seriousness I've been playing in Hi-Sec without any issues for the last month as I've been gathering material and training skills. Feels pretty safe to me.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#3671 - 2016-01-13 13:26:33 UTC
Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3672 - 2016-01-13 13:28:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


I think I explained myself bad. I don't say it's impossible to escape gatecamps, I did that a lot of times myself (well played smartbomb camps are harder, if you didn't know the next gate has one and did not setup appropriate bookmarks in advance).

I am bringing the example from another game, where you can get a "gate camp" but the dynamics give you a proper fighting chance and to use a proper PvP ship to do that.

In EvE if you want to do more than just dart away but want to take the fight, your stabbed / nanoed / whatever ship is not exactly going to stand a lot of chances. That's why I bring the case for T3, because with them you can more or less replicate the (in my opinion, fun) mechanic of getting in a camp and decide to stay and fight back in good terms.

Then, of course, if the gatecamper(s) is bad, you might make it with a BC or BS but I'd hardly would go around looking for sparring with a lone BS, it's too juicy and easily picked target.


The problem you have is that you gave up trying, declared that a thing was impossible (this is usually done to salve one's ego) and now stick to the wrong conclusion because you're invested in it.

Since when is a Vexor a BS, BC or T3?

And OH WOW, did CCP sneak in some T3 haulers? Nope this solo pvp NEREUS is a tech1 ship


Same with this Exequror. And this other guy does it all the time in cruisers and frigs.

You can go on trying to compare the situation to some other game that lets you opt out of the entire universe while still letting you gain rewards, but again the reality is that you are complaining about a game situation that is actually a you situation instead.
Reiisha
#3673 - 2016-01-13 13:41:51 UTC
Heck, i'll just post it again.

EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.

Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#3674 - 2016-01-13 15:23:08 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Heck, i'll just post it again.

EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.

Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in.
QFT.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3675 - 2016-01-13 15:53:45 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
Heck, i'll just post it again.

EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.

Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in.


Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3676 - 2016-01-13 16:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Fa Xian
Jenn aSide wrote:

Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".


Exploration hacking mini game.

Check out mining in Galaxy On Fire 2;

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/538192-galaxy-on-fire-2-ipad-screenshot-mining-mini-game-try-to-keep.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnriwUErSwU

How about mining has an active interface? Instead of watching a cycling module, play a mini-game. Pay no attention to it? Same as current yield. Pay attention? +10% - +20% yield.
Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3677 - 2016-01-13 16:06:02 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".


Exploration hacking mini game.


This really shouldn't be underestimate in terms of brilliant EVE design.

It engages instead of making you wait. It distracts, making you PVP content for others. It scales. It uses player skill.

I suspect container spew was a prototype for mining ideas - it would have made more sense there.

Missions are already active.

Trading and manufacturing could use some help.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#3678 - 2016-01-13 16:46:57 UTC
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid.


Implying that a lot of people were ever playing Elite Dangerous in the first place.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#3679 - 2016-01-13 16:54:13 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".


Exploration hacking mini game.

Check out mining in Galaxy On Fire 2;

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/538192-galaxy-on-fire-2-ipad-screenshot-mining-mini-game-try-to-keep.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnriwUErSwU

How about mining has an active interface? Instead of watching a cycling module, play a mini-game. Pay no attention to it? Same as current yield. Pay attention? +10% - +20% yield.


As long as it isn't mandatory, i don't have a problem with that. But personally I like EVE's "press button and wait" features like how hacking used to be (I don't mine). It's in keeping with the idea that we are the CAPTAINS of our ships (and thus not to be disturbed from our important sipping of Earl Grey Tea by menial tasks such hacking and deciding how to dismantle a space rock, we have "people" for such things lol).

Usually, people asking for more 'manual' stuff (like wanting to fly their ships with joysticks lol) would be happier in one of the Space "pilot" games, again, EVE is a game of Captains. People who want to be mere pilots should play ED or wait for Star Citizen and No Man's sky.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#3680 - 2016-01-13 16:55:17 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid.


Implying that a lot of people were ever playing Elite Dangerous in the first place.


I got the expensive beta pack back then so I have free updates, played it a bit in the beginning but soon realised how hilariously shallow that game is. Picked it up again a few days ago played for 3 days and gave up, there's nothing there other than dreams and cool visuals.