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Blitz and Burner Guide v1.2.1

First post
Author
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#101 - 2015-11-27 11:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
I've been able to more thoroughly test the Barghest as a credible alternative to the Machariel and it's pretty solid all things considered. The buff changes are live on singularity and with all the mass testing I've been enjoying (The visuals really are absolutely amazing once they fixed most of the driver crashes) I got enough SP to fly an effectively maxed out barghest to test. The buff adds about 100dps to the RHML Barghest in the form of higher volleys so it's a really welcome boost.

For the most part the RHML Barghest seem to compete favorably in the following misisons:

- Attack of the drones: This can be a bit random as the number of ships spawning is not fixed. Can make good use of a full flight of medium drones

- The assault (Serpentis): Very nice for sniping the scramming frigs in the 2nd room (always a pita for the mach) and to hit the ships in the 3rd room as soon as you land

- Gone Beserk: It can theoretically finish the mission on a single clip but with the bug/changes to the mission it might get dropped in favor of other missions

- Stop the thief: slightly quicker kill time makes up for slightly slower warp speed so either works.

- Dread Pirate scarlet: Slightly slower than Mach but not by much. No arty snipe fit possible but for people not running an arty mach the Bagrhest works fine.

There are a couple missions where a cruise Barghest would work far better and that is something I am going to test next as I should have T2 cruises now.

- Pirate Invasion (Angel): With 6(or was it 7?) BS that needs to be killed it needs at least 2 reloads of RHML making it slightly slower than the Mach although infinitely easier to tank. I think I might get better mileage with the cruise missiles.

- Attack of the Drones: Cruises might feature here better than the RHML.

- I want to believe in a blockade blitz but with triggers being random (the eve survival guide isn't 100% accurate either) it'd be a bit of a crap shoot from what I've tested so far. That said Cruises (and a MJD) would trump RHML fit.

I might revisit certain other missions too, just in case.

End of the day the Mach is still the top dog, but it's nice seeing a ship that can keep pace with it in almost all missions. I was never a fan of how the Mach looked so having a ship like the Barghest be a legitimate alternative is great.

ps. Anyone got any ideas for the new utility high? A drone link augmentator isn't really useful in any real way, an auto targeting thingy doesn't actually jive with blitzing and I already have a tractor on it. Neut to make it slightly more gank resistant? Although again, with blitzing people have trouble scanning you down before you're done with the site.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#102 - 2015-11-27 18:43:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Anize Oramara wrote:
The buff adds about 100dps to the RHML Barghest in the form of higher volleys so it's a really welcome boost.

The buff should only add about 3% to total DPS...? (the change was from 8.75 to 9.00 effective launchers)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#103 - 2015-11-27 21:28:28 UTC
I've been testing a cruise barghest

with blockade the main issue I've had is the first spawn trigger seems random, sometimes you see it and only need 1 kill, sometimes you need to kill the whole first wave. Past that the trigger spawns in the same place and is usually the high bounty one Gist Malakim/Gist Nephilim according to eve survival, and the completion trigger I think is always the Seraphim. mjd/mwd whatever works with MWD just need to burn out away from the scram frigs. looks to take 5-9 mins depending on what happens. should carefully note the initial spawn. I've had multiple of one ship and killing one triggers the next spawn, sometimes it is the last one.

gone berserk. with scourge fury one volley the cruisers, 2 volley the hydra, 3 volley the other 2 bs. Although if you can do it in one reload with RHML that would probably be faster but I guess it involves at least some volley counting. guessing 2 for cruisers 4-6 for bs?

pirate invasion it works well, but I think I'll probably stick with the mach. lol hail, usually done before they even hit my armor tank.

AotD. never tried it. usually don't run it

smash the supplier: easy blitz. kite everything and bash the tower. although I tend to avoid it for the -2.4% amarr standings hit.

assault yea I want to try the rhml version on that. which ammo do you use? I was thinking navy for the scram frigs, and reload to fury for the last room, not sure exactly how long the warp is or if it would be better to just use one ammo and do it all in one reload?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#104 - 2015-11-29 09:16:21 UTC
Attack of the drones has the same isk/m, even with the 30sec wait, of Gone Beserk and Stop the thief.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#105 - 2015-11-29 16:39:17 UTC
Chainsaw, out of curiosity - what's your fit? (do you find the Barghest gets hung up a lot on stuff?)

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#106 - 2015-11-29 21:36:19 UTC
This is what I've been playing around with. on a character with max missile skills and 5% implants. Can swap a painter for a prop mod (or even both for some missions). Heat the painter (or use 2) when shooting cruisers and so far I've been able to 1 volley cruisers with fury missiles. I've also been looking at using a signal amp or sensor booster, long lock times annoy me, and with the MJD being able to hit past the base 95km lock range could be useful. Upgrading to faction BCUs might help out a bit, as with the cruisers it is close, and I've seen a few BS in low structure, and with 1 painter w/o heat cruisers end up in very low structure. Maybe even a faction target painter? Or perhaps just drop an HVO for a t2 rigor. Also would like to get a nano or two on there to help out with the agility, but that is low priority.

should also try some crash boosters. I'd be tempted, to use standard as none of the penalties really hurt the barghest much, but some of those penalties would hurt other ships.

also it likes to bounce off the station a whole heck of a lot... should probably start using a short insta just to clear the station.
[Barghest, weeee]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
500MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive
Large Micro Jump Drive
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Inferno Fury Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II

typically just use light drones, should probably try some sentry drones, might help with low structure pick offs. Has room for a drone link augmentor so long range sentries could work.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#107 - 2015-12-03 01:23:58 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
This is what I've been playing around with.

Three Faction BCUs are basically the equivalent of four T2 BCUs, so that would give you an extra low slot for a nano or something. I'd probably go with a Faction TP instead of the MJD myself, but otherwise it's a solid fit. And yeah, it bounces off everything.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#108 - 2015-12-03 02:27:18 UTC
at that point I'd probably just fit a 4th t2 bcu :p

looking forward to seeing what happens with the slight dps bump, and 10% boost to missile guidance mods in December.

that specific fit was for blitzing the blockade. don't really need painters to apply to bs (I think?) at this point I could do it mwd only, but for learning I like the MJD as you can jump away from the scram frigs if they ever catch up. For other missions the painters are much more appreciated.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#109 - 2015-12-03 03:27:43 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
at that point I'd probably just fit a 4th t2 bcu :p
looking forward to seeing what happens with the slight dps bump, and 10% boost to missile guidance mods in December.

Do they have a module that reduces your physical size by 33%? Well, I'm not overly excited about the +3% DPS increase. The 17% reduction in ammunition consumption will be good. I would've preferred another low slot instead of another utility high so it had more potential as an armor tank.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Xenon 101
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#110 - 2015-12-04 02:42:46 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey folks, as Ploing mentioned above, I've observed no differences between the burner missions before and after the Parallax released.

Lets confirm a couple things before we continue:

- Burner missions should be entirely unchanged after Parallax
- Any changes to Drifters would have no effect on Burners (Drifters use a completely new AI system)

That being said, it's clear people are experiencing something different after this patch and I'm looking further into this to find out exactly whats going on. To that end can people please post the fits they are using that are now not fairing as well after the patch.

Thanks!



I'm having trouble with Burner Vengeance Team, before it was easy breaking a logi( Inquisitor) ship tank. I'm flying a maxed out 280 DPS Wolf. Now looks like CCP increased the logi repp amount significantly so its impossible to do this mission solo.
I guess this is a stealth nerf for solo mission players? It happened before so I'm not surprised.

My setup :

[Wolf, Burner-Vengeance]
Capacitor Flux Coil II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner

200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
200mm AutoCannon II
Rocket Launcher II

Small Anti-EM Pump II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II



Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket x1137
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S x1420
Caldari Navy Nova Rocket x732

Rock solid 280 dps, cap stable perma repp can tank damage all day.

I couldnt even get a Burner logi's ship to 50% armor with overheat.......I submitted a bug report

It is what it is adapt or die.

Xenon 101
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#111 - 2015-12-04 16:22:26 UTC
Experienced the same thing today with the Hawk team burner. Nearly burned out everything and escaped narrowly. Definitely not how it is supposed to be, did this particular mission quite a few times but it is impossible now.
Xenon 101
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-12-06 14:44:40 UTC
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:
Experienced the same thing today with the Hawk team burner. Nearly burned out everything and escaped narrowly. Definitely not how it is supposed to be, did this particular mission quite a few times but it is impossible now.



Looks like Logi runs out of cap eventually, after 10 min ( and 1 set of Scorch S) shield goes down quick..... had to to some setup modifications .

Here is my cap stable setup :

[Retribution, Burner-Hawk]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Republic Fleet Armor Kinetic Hardener
Coreli B-Type Kinetic Plating
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Small Focused Pulse Laser II

Small Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II



Scorch S x5 ( Make sure you have enough laser crystals......)

189.9 DPS with my skills, 91 % Armor Kinetic resistance . It tanks great, armor stays at 95%Big smile, overtanked but it works great, maybe more dps will be better but I'm not sure if I'll have enough cap boosters for 15 min fight, I can swap a cap recharger for a cap booster and have an extra heatsink in lows, no way to test this on SISI.






Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#113 - 2015-12-06 17:19:42 UTC
The nice thing about team burners is that you don't need any tank, you can just kite the NPCs. And then you can just ECM the logi ships and dunk the burner. Polarized rocket + ECM garmur seems to be the standard fit and has been working well for me. Although if you want to stick to amarr this is what I've been using, mostly for the caldari team burner. When things are normal you can ecm one logi and kill the burner with the other one repping it, although right now I'd probably just ECM the one logi and dps the other and then go for the burner. I tested it vs the gallente one and it works there too. Should probably work vs amarr, but will have trouble vs minmatar as it isn't fast enough to kite it.

[Retribution, Burner ecm kite]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Overdrive Injector System II
Co-Processor II

1MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
[empty high slot]
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S

Small Energy Locus Coordinator II
Small Energy Locus Coordinator II

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#114 - 2015-12-08 14:21:03 UTC
teamburners are fixed.
Varyah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2015-12-08 16:55:38 UTC
Never did Burners, but interested in finally start doing them, so I checked the guide (thank you!). But I stumbled upon two instances of 'keep at range 100km' - is this a typo? Should this be 10km?

Quote:
A.5. Wolf – Blood Agent
[...] Activate web and guns and keep at range 100km. [...]

Quote:
A.7. Hawk – Serpentis Agent
[...] Activate both webs and keep at range 100km or orbit at 14km. [...]

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#116 - 2015-12-08 17:05:42 UTC
Varyah wrote:
Never did Burners, but interested in finally start doing them, so I checked the guide (thank you!). But I stumbled upon two instances of 'keep at range 100km' - is this a typo? Should this be 10km?

Quote:
A.5. Wolf – Blood Agent
[...] Activate web and guns and keep at range 100km. [...]

Quote:
A.7. Hawk – Serpentis Agent
[...] Activate both webs and keep at range 100km or orbit at 14km. [...]



this is a typo.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#117 - 2015-12-08 17:40:13 UTC
Ploing wrote:
teamburners are fixed.

Meaning ECM isn't required on the polarized Garmur now?
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#118 - 2015-12-08 18:17:51 UTC
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Ploing wrote:
teamburners are fixed.

Meaning ECM isn't required on the polarized Garmur now?


yes.

but they screwed up freight delivery. as you land there are rats right now.
Andromeda Cesaille
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2015-12-08 19:03:50 UTC
Lost a pimped daredevil to anomic agent worm. He was scrammed and he still outran me with OH MWD. BEWARE
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#120 - 2015-12-08 19:30:24 UTC
Andromeda Cesaille wrote:
Lost a pimped daredevil to anomic agent worm. He was scrammed and he still outran me with OH MWD. BEWARE


can´t confirm. ran it right now with an enyo.