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Blitz and Burner Guide v1.2.1

First post
Author
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#21 - 2015-11-11 12:07:51 UTC
Created: 11/11/2015 11:44:08 AM
CCP Dev
Thankyou for the bug report,

I ran the two versions of the Anomic Team burner mission you mentioned above multiple times, from before and after after the Parallax release, and saw no difference in their stats or behaviour. If you continue to see any issue with this mission, please do not hesitate to contact us again

- CCP Lebowski

ShockedWhat?

well thats a bit weird
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2015-11-11 13:23:25 UTC
Hey folks, as Ploing mentioned above, I've observed no differences between the burner missions before and after the Parallax released.

Lets confirm a couple things before we continue:

- Burner missions should be entirely unchanged after Parallax
- Any changes to Drifters would have no effect on Burners (Drifters use a completely new AI system)

That being said, it's clear people are experiencing something different after this patch and I'm looking further into this to find out exactly whats going on. To that end can people please post the fits they are using that are now not fairing as well after the patch.

Thanks!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#23 - 2015-11-11 13:46:10 UTC
Hi Lebowski!

The change is exclusive (as far as I've been able to test) to TEAM burners, specifically, the LOGI REPAIR RATE. Focus on this exclusively. The BURNER rat as far as I can tell has had no change to it. I tested with an ECM fit and the burner rat goes down as fast as always with no logi supporting it. I don't *think* it's the ship/fit as people using Hawks and Harpies have experienced the same issue.

Before the patch, the fit below was able to 'brute force' through a single logi's reps being applied to another logi even while NOT overheating. Overheating would decrease the time to kill the logi but was not strictly nessesary. Additionally for two of the team burners (Hawk and Enyo) you only had to kill ONE of the logi. You could then brute force through the surviving logi's reps on the burner itself. The Vengeance and Jaguar team burner I had to kill both logis before the patch to kill the burner rat. This is all before yesterdays patch.

Here is the fit:

[Garmur, Team Burner Garmur - Bling]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I

My skills are not maxed but really, really close and I have implants as well.

AFTER the patch:
I tested yesterday and was able to make headway on one of the BURST logi shields with the above fit ONLY while OH. Without OH I was not able to do any damage at all. With OH I was not able to break through the shield before my launchers would burn out. I got to about 3/4 of the way. I then kept firing at it without OH. The shield slowly regenned until I ran out of my initial 150 rocket clip. After reloading the shields were fully repaired.

I've had multiple other people test it. everyone confirms the exact same thing. The question is not IF something went wrong, only WHAT. I hope this information will help you find out what changed.

Thanks.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#24 - 2015-11-11 13:47:25 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey folks, as Ploing mentioned above, I've observed no differences between the burner missions before and after the Parallax released.

Lets confirm a couple things before we continue:

- Burner missions should be entirely unchanged after Parallax
- Any changes to Drifters would have no effect on Burners (Drifters use a completely new AI system)

That being said, it's clear people are experiencing something different after this patch and I'm looking further into this to find out exactly whats going on. To that end can people please post the fits they are using that are now not fairing as well after the patch.

Thanks!


so far it seems only the teamburners with logi are affected. other burners went well so far. happend first after yesterdays patch.

[Garmur, Polarized rocket teamburner]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

5MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Range Script
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket
Polarized Rocket Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Rocket

Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I


oh with my implants it does 337 dps. was able to break the first logi (bantam) with something around 80-90% heatdamage.
normally i kill only the first logi and go straight to the burner at the hawkmission. this took something between 1- 1:20 min.

since yesterday this took around 6:30 min and others could not break the logi.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#25 - 2015-11-11 13:57:50 UTC
If it counts for anything my gut feeling is it's something to do with fequency/duration/chance of logi reps rather than the numbers with how MUCH they rep. Might be something to look at.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

John Henke
Decompression Services
#26 - 2015-11-11 14:21:33 UTC
I ran a couple of Team Burner yesterday (Jaguar and Vengeance) and noticed no differences. I used an Imperial Navy Slicer.

[Imperial Navy Slicer, Team Burner]
Co-Processor II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

1MN Afterburner II
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard S
[empty high slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

Imperial Navy Gamma S x2
Imperial Navy Xray S x2
Imperial Navy Standard S x2

Perhaps something with the NPC Defender missiles?
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#27 - 2015-11-11 14:27:02 UTC
John Henke wrote:
I ran a couple of Team Burner yesterday (Jaguar and Vengeance) and noticed no differences. I used an Imperial Navy Slicer.

[Imperial Navy Slicer, Team Burner]
Co-Processor II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

1MN Afterburner II
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard S
Small Focused Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Standard S
[empty high slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

Imperial Navy Gamma S x2
Imperial Navy Xray S x2
Imperial Navy Standard S x2

Perhaps something with the NPC Defender missiles?

All the ships I've heard being used that had the issue seems to be missile boats, although one guy did mention using a blaster daredevil? I though about it but when I jammed out the logis in my new fit I was able to blitz down the burner in less than 30sec. Maybe the logi's defender missiles?

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#28 - 2015-11-11 14:31:04 UTC
John Henke wrote:

Perhaps something with the NPC Defender missiles?

think no cause rockets hit as before.

did u the burners before or after dt yesterday?
Colt Blackhawk
Doomheim
#29 - 2015-11-11 14:44:03 UTC
[Daredevil, Burner Vengeance]
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Core B-Type Armor EM Hardener

Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I

For the burner Veng mission:
Before the first logi took something like 20 rounds to kill with overheat.
Since yesterday it takes around 60 rounds overheated ending mostly with guns burnt at around 80%.
Did it four times now since dt yesterday and it was always the same.

Worm seems to have sometimes extreme alpha sending you directly into structure with one shot.
Happened only once.

[09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f****** amarr flag and s*** on their smoking wrecks.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#30 - 2015-11-11 14:45:24 UTC
Yea, the rocket volleys still do the same damage as before, unless the logi defender missiles wipe out entire volleys. I will need to test.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#31 - 2015-11-11 14:46:07 UTC
You guys rock, thanks to all your awesome info I've got this occurring here for our programmers to see and it looks like we've got some clues as to the cause of this which we're investigating now.

Thanks again!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#32 - 2015-11-11 14:50:46 UTC
Awesome! Happy to hear it Bear

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#33 - 2015-11-11 19:48:28 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Before the patch, the fit below was able to 'brute force' through a single logi's reps being applied to another logi even while NOT overheating. Overheating would decrease the time to kill the logi but was not strictly nessesary. Additionally for two of the team burners (Hawk and Enyo) you only had to kill ONE of the logi. You could then brute force through the surviving logi's reps on the burner itself. The Vengeance and Jaguar team burner I had to kill both logis before the patch to kill the burner rat. This is all before yesterdays patch.

I was unable to break any of the logi on the Team Burners, either. With V missile skills, +6 implants and OH polarized rockets the best I was able to achieve was getting one of the logistics down to 50% shield.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#34 - 2015-11-11 19:54:25 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Before the patch, the fit below was able to 'brute force' through a single logi's reps being applied to another logi even while NOT overheating. Overheating would decrease the time to kill the logi but was not strictly nessesary. Additionally for two of the team burners (Hawk and Enyo) you only had to kill ONE of the logi. You could then brute force through the surviving logi's reps on the burner itself. The Vengeance and Jaguar team burner I had to kill both logis before the patch to kill the burner rat. This is all before yesterdays patch.

I was unable to break any of the logi on the Team Burners, either. With V missile skills, +6 implants and OH polarized rockets the best I was able to achieve was getting one of the logistics down to 50% shield.

Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#35 - 2015-11-11 20:44:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

On the flip side, I like the ECM fits better. Twisted
I wonder if you could get away with a pair of multispectral ECM jammers? Incidentally, I found that applying ECM to both logistics (whether successful or not) seemed to disrupt logistics to some extent.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#36 - 2015-11-12 04:29:22 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Hey folks, as Ploing mentioned above, I've observed no differences between the burner missions before and after the Parallax released.

Lets confirm a couple things before we continue:

- Burner missions should be entirely unchanged after Parallax
- Any changes to Drifters would have no effect on Burners (Drifters use a completely new AI system)

That being said, it's clear people are experiencing something different after this patch and I'm looking further into this to find out exactly whats going on. To that end can people please post the fits they are using that are now not fairing as well after the patch.

Thanks!


Just tried team hawk.

I cant break the first bantam's tank with this fit anymore. It used to work just fine.


[Daredevil, uni t haw]
Shadow Serpentis Armor Kinetic Hardener
Centii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Core B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener

Coreli A-Type 1MN Afterburner
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Light Neutron Blaster II
[Empty High slot]
Light Neutron Blaster II

Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Small Nanobot Accelerator I



Void S x3290
Navy Cap Booster 400 x10


Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-11-12 05:15:07 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

On the flip side, I like the ECM fits better. Twisted
I wonder if you could get away with a pair of multispectral ECM jammers? Incidentally, I found that applying ECM to both logistics (whether successful or not) seemed to disrupt logistics to some extent.


Well ECM does SEEM to occasionally make the jammed logi retreat out of range.

However it is hard to tell if that is actually genuine AI behavior or just coincidence because they are tethering in some fashion as you get further from warp in point.

My hunch is AI behaviour becasue its almost always the jammed frigate that runs away first.
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#38 - 2015-11-12 08:31:26 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

On the flip side, I like the ECM fits better. Twisted
I wonder if you could get away with a pair of multispectral ECM jammers? Incidentally, I found that applying ECM to both logistics (whether successful or not) seemed to disrupt logistics to some extent.


Well ECM does SEEM to occasionally make the jammed logi retreat out of range.

However it is hard to tell if that is actually genuine AI behavior or just coincidence because they are tethering in some fashion as you get further from warp in point.

My hunch is AI behaviour becasue its almost always the jammed frigate that runs away first.

This is normal and very typical AI behavior actually. I saw it a LOT in wormhole space. We'd jam the last rats in a site to warp the capitals off and they would fly off. It's a guaranteed effect of jamming a rat.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-11-12 13:40:43 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

On the flip side, I like the ECM fits better. Twisted
I wonder if you could get away with a pair of multispectral ECM jammers? Incidentally, I found that applying ECM to both logistics (whether successful or not) seemed to disrupt logistics to some extent.


Well ECM does SEEM to occasionally make the jammed logi retreat out of range.

However it is hard to tell if that is actually genuine AI behavior or just coincidence because they are tethering in some fashion as you get further from warp in point.

My hunch is AI behaviour becasue its almost always the jammed frigate that runs away first.

This is normal and very typical AI behavior actually. I saw it a LOT in wormhole space. We'd jam the last rats in a site to warp the capitals off and they would fly off. It's a guaranteed effect of jamming a rat.


So potentially sticking one ECM on each logi and shooting at the burner may work for team burners.


Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#40 - 2015-11-12 14:03:17 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
Yup, sounds like they found the issue, quite curious to see what it was Big smile

On the flip side, I like the ECM fits better. Twisted
I wonder if you could get away with a pair of multispectral ECM jammers? Incidentally, I found that applying ECM to both logistics (whether successful or not) seemed to disrupt logistics to some extent.


Well ECM does SEEM to occasionally make the jammed logi retreat out of range.

However it is hard to tell if that is actually genuine AI behavior or just coincidence because they are tethering in some fashion as you get further from warp in point.

My hunch is AI behaviour becasue its almost always the jammed frigate that runs away first.

This is normal and very typical AI behavior actually. I saw it a LOT in wormhole space. We'd jam the last rats in a site to warp the capitals off and they would fly off. It's a guaranteed effect of jamming a rat.


So potentially sticking one ECM on each logi and shooting at the burner may work for team burners.



If both jams land, yes. That's the tactic I currently use until they find the bug with team burners or if they decide to buff team burners. an alternative is to put both jams on one logi and burst the other one down.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3