EVE General Discussion

Deleted an empty post.

You know...

For many years, my country had mandatory conscription to the Army. Men in their 18-20 would be cosncripted and would take mandatory military training, so the Army was compsoed of a hard core of professionals and wave after wave of conscripts with limited and dubious military training.

Since that system was in place for almost 60 years, there's a clear divide between older men who did it, and younger men who don't.

Men who did it usaly think that they had it real tough, whereas the later waves of cosncripts had it easy, and the current generation who can't even conceive being removed form civilian life forcibly are missing a chance to "smarten up" and "toughen up" and "beat it". Younger generation, apparently, are softer, wimpier, for not suffering conscription. They have it too easy.

Of coruse, that's what veterans say. Reality, though, is a *****.

The "tough" veterans who were conscripted, for an instance, missed for 40 years the chance to topple a dictatorship in my ocuntry. Also, when they were released to civilian lfie they managed to buy their homes with rouglhy the equivalent to 5 years of salary. That allowed many of them to buy a second home and own cars and a moderate degree of consumerism in a poorish country. Whereas currently the "wimps" who never were conscripted face 50% of unemployment and the need to invest 18 full years of salary to buy a home, among other financial hardships.


TL;DR: the fact that some people thrived or "beated it" in a difficult environment doesn't means that said environment was better than the current milder one, and even as younger generations don't face the same hardships of the past, they may be facing some even tougher ones. Like a game where veterans just ravage through your hardly earned space because they outnumber you 10 to 1 in members and 20 to 1 in experience and organization.... aka "Imperium vs the Cloud Ring noob threat".

That's just BS (and those cloud ring noobs are delivering some nice punishment). What you jut said amounted to this:

OLD GUY: "I foughtn in WWII, I landed on Omaha beach on D-Day and watch all my friends die. When i came home from the war I had problems readjusting, but eventually I made it through those dark days, met your grandmother and lived a good life. But we had out ups and downs, we almost lost the farm 3 times before you were born.

YOUNG D-BAG: "Blah blah blah gramps, you don't know what hardship is. Yesterday I lost the charger to my IPhone and it was too late to go get another one. All night I was stuck at home chained to my laptop just to see my facebook page, it was HORRIBLE!"

Indahmawar Fazmarai made a very good point and you both completely missed it.
Shame.
Then Lucas drops in with inanity.
Come on guise.
Indahmawar, there has to be a way to make the same point in a much shorter fashion, i'm with you %100 on that one.

I didn't read it to be honest, I responded to Jenn's demand to cling to a status quo that no longer exists. Don't get me wrong, I was going to read it but it was long and there's a broken English problem so I thought "**** it". Having given it a quick scan I'm going to make the wild assumption that the point was "people always think they had it tougher in their day but that's not necessarily true" followed immediately with a not-so-subtle "grr goons".

I'll try.

The game was different when veterans started. We know the story of those who survived to it and they are OK with how it was, since they survived to it. The hardships of that EVE past, are also past now.

The game as is now, is something veterans don't know since they are not new players. New players are learning what are the hardships of EVE now, even if those hardships are not the same as when the veterans started.

Veterans see how the game changed, and they think that if it was good for them so should be for everybody else, even if the game is not the same since the veterans changed it with their actions.

The irony is that the worst hardship for new players are veteran players.

Veterans players convinced CCP that the game didn't needed radical new content that could be assimilated and mastered from scratch. So now the game just keeps adding content which demands to learn older content already mastered by veterans, in order to reach it. Like moving golaposts, new players are left behind by game evolution. When they master T1 dessies, CCP adds T3 dessies and then command dessies, so the veterans have new toys, but the new players will never enjoy those toys since they're still mastering T1... flying them against the veterans with T3. (That was an analogy, btw)

Veterans had a tougher game but that game didn't included veterans as they are, and didn't included CCP turning a deaf ear to anyone not old and organized enough to complain and demand change.

The new sovereignty wasn't made for new players. Maybe new players wouldn't want a sovereignty system to start with. We will never know; CCP and the powers that be decided that the game needed a new sovereignty for those already enjoying(?) it.

That kind of top-heavy development permeates everything. And veterans, with their "tougher" game, never faced anything like it. For the most part, they were merrily ignored by CCP...


TL;DR again. EVE is a gerontocracy. Old farts complain on how easy have it young ones since they don't face the hardships of the past, but can't understand the hardships of now since those hardships include the old farts themselves.

Old guy: I was in Vietnam! I saw my brothers die! You don't know!
Young d-bag: I was in Paris! I saw my brothers die at Bataclan! You don't know!

(One last irony is that younger generations facing the hardships of now, tend to underestimate the hardships of the past since they're past... and if they're gone, then they weren't that terrible, were they? Past with a known solution is always 100x less frightening than the present without a known solution)

Remember that the high number of players during the 2013-2014 period was because of the Crimewatch update, where a lot of interesting content was added to the game. The playerbase has gone a bit down because of Fozziesov, where the devs, in their infinite wisdom, dumbed down sovereignty mechanics and removed some depth from the game, causing a lot of vets to quit. But also take note that many capsuleers are adults / busy teenagers with work / school to attend to. The player count will go up during the holidays.

But then that in itself isn't stupid either. I'm a programmer, I write software. If I were to have learned to do so 15 years earlier, it would have been low level languages with significantly less evolved tools. It would have been without a doubt harder to learn. But then the end products would generally have been significantly simpler and jobs would have had far less competition. Just because the tools to do the job have evolved to make the basic mechanics (the actual programming) easier doesn't mean that as a career it's easier.

The same is with EVE. Basic mechanics are safer and simpler, but there are more mechanics, far more players and the players that are already here know a heck of a lot more to use against you.

Or perhaps in game, like in real life, progress simply needs to be controlled, which is what CCP are doing. You seem to reject any progress that makes things easier. If we're going to go with random quotes, Harold Wilson said: "He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery."

Times change. Now there are new challenges. And if the game is still around in 10 years time there will be people who started playing now sayign "In my day...".

You say that like it was impossible back in the day. Step 1. Buy cheap ship, Step 2. Give it a faction name. Step 3. Sell it for an extortionate price. Step 4. Moonwalk away.

It's always been possible to make buckets of isk if you have the knowhow and are willing to put the effort in. It's also easier if you have friends to loan you stuff.

So because you seemingly took a long time to learn, noobies should be punished now?

And you could log off and know that in 15 minutes your ship would be safe even if bumped, gankers were significantly less organised and wardecs were heavily limited and able to be protected from by purpose build dec shield alliances.

You can't really go just by that though because prices have changed. Trit was worth like what, 2/unit back then? You certainly wouldn't be paying today's battleship prices either. I think my first dominix was like 45m.

Wealth is relative. Also noobies really need the better methods of acquiring wealth if they are to stand any chance of keeping up with veteran players.

Working for something you want is not punishment.

People like you (in game and in real life) think you are helping people by making things easier for them (or advocating with the powers that be). You aren't, you are taking something important from them. Namely , the ability to survive on their own after you stop giving them stuff. My buddy who loaned me that Navy Raven I eventually bought taught me this in game (i already knew it in real life). Thats why he SOLD me the Raven rather than gifting it to me.

The whole idea seems to be that if you eliminate their need to wrk for what they want, they will spend their time doing greater things because they are free of mundanities. What you actually find, instead, is boredom and an inability to appreciate things (in game, that leads to quitting, because nothing they do has any real value).

CCP is about to repeat their mistake with the Tribute System btw. I will benefit from it, but the game won't.